Offseason Rumors

[davell]

Ricky Nolasco's agent is telling reporters that they have several 3-year and two 4-year deals in hand. I am trying to connect the dots and see if the Cubs are one of those teams that have made an offer.

 

Any news or grumblings from others to suggest one way or another?

I've not heard the Cubs connected, seems like the Twins are in on him big. That said, Nolasco on a 4/52 deal wouldn't be the worst thing we could do.

[CubsWin]

Yeah, the best case scenario shouldn't be hopefully making the playoffs a few times after 5 years of suck. Tom Ricketts is a miserable failure

 

Ricketts has yet to to do ANYTHING of note, outside of hiring a very capable FO, that MAY eventually be able to operate a winning team with extremely little help from him. For that, he was smart. Outside of that, he's been ridiculously awful.....

I count the spending on amateur talent and the spending on infrastructure (past and planned) to be things of note.

The spending on amateur talent is DEFINITELY Theo, not Ricketts. If anything, I BLAME Ricketts for not opening it up for an epic IFA binge this year, when we went over spending by a couple mill. If we truly had any money left over, it would have been used there. It was basically the point where any doubt I had about Theo maybe not wanting to spend turned to Theo definitely can't spend.

We can't say that for sure, Dave. Theo is still about value and there are other teams involved. As you know, latin american prospects often have a favorite team. Either it's the one that has done the best job recruiting them or, Eloy Jimenez, it's the team their favorite player played for (Sammy Sosa). Money doesn't always call the shots. And even if it did, Theo and Co. are more about spending money on the right player without straying too far from a reasonable price. In other words, they are all about value. Signing 16-year-olds is already a risky enough proposition without wildly over-paying to land one.

 

The Ricketts family deserves it's fair share of blame for the current state of the major league team, but to credit Theo for spending well over $40 million on the likes of Soler, Concepcion, Jimenez, Torres, Mejia, Moreno and Tseng in just two seasons seems patently misplaced. Theo can't spend what he doesn't have.

 

And that doesn't take into account opening the Dominican Academy, the new spring training complex and the proposed $500 million dollars investment in Wrigley and the surrounding area. These things were left off your previous post. I was simply filling out the resume in an attempt for accuracy and fairness. Not necessarily refuting your point.

[bigkid66]

Can we have an offseason thread where Kyle isn't allowed? It'd be nice to stop by for updates without having to weed through page after page of his tedious whining.

 

EDIT: I should mention that a mere blocking would not do the trick, as he manages to pull everyone else into his tediousness.

 

THIS! There's precious little Offseason Rumors in this thread. Seems like every topic degenerates into the same tiresome discussion. Maybe start a Ricketts Sucks/Whining/We're Doomed thread for this stuff?

[Guest]

Would the system be that much worse?

 

OK, we win 75 games in 2012 and don't make the trades.

 

We still have 6 of our current top 10, plus the 2013 No. 12 pick or whatever.

 

Uh.... Yes?

[Guest]

Yeah, the best case scenario shouldn't be hopefully making the playoffs a few times after 5 years of suck. Tom Ricketts is a miserable failure

 

Ricketts has yet to to do ANYTHING of note, outside of hiring a very capable FO, that MAY eventually be able to operate a winning team with extremely little help from him. For that, he was smart. Outside of that, he's been ridiculously awful.....

I count the spending on amateur talent and the spending on infrastructure (past and planned) to be things of note.

The spending on amateur talent is DEFINITELY Theo, not Ricketts. If anything, I BLAME Ricketts for not opening it up for an epic IFA binge this year, when we went over spending by a couple mill. If we truly had any money left over, it would have been used there. It was basically the point where any doubt I had about Theo maybe not wanting to spend turned to Theo definitely can't spend.

 

Money was spent on amateur talent before Theo got here...

[davell]

It's all coming out of one budget though.(baseball ops) It's still Theo's call as to allocate it in whatever way he wants. I'm not giving Ricketts credit for that. And yes, they spent big on Hendry's last amateur draft, but it was done partially because Hendry said it was the last time you could do it. Swear that was mentioned by him, not making it up.

 

Back to this past IFA class: It's possible I'm placing blame on Ricketts without him deserving SOME of it. Maybe the Cubs had other trades worked out to where they weren't planning on going over the top tier penalty and something fell through. But there were still a relatively solid amount(10+) top 30 type prospects out there after they knew they were over. Yes, plenty of these kids have agreements early on, but I think that a team doing as much work as the Cubs are doing down there could have come in and upped offers a couple hundred thousand on some of those guys and stolen them late. Blinded by Ricketts hate admittedly, but I'll use lack of money as the reason to not just annihilate the budget, instead of just going over by a bit.

 

I thought(hell, still hope with pop up guys) that we should have signed another 3-4 guys that were 500k types anyway. Nitpicking, but I think given our situation, Theo would have preferred to go much further than what we did on this.

[jersey cubs fan]

Can we have an offseason thread where Kyle isn't allowed? It'd be nice to stop by for updates without having to weed through page after page of his tedious whining.

 

EDIT: I should mention that a mere blocking would not do the trick, as he manages to pull everyone else into his tediousness.

 

THIS! There's precious little Offseason Rumors in this thread. Seems like every topic degenerates into the same tiresome discussion. Maybe start a Ricketts Sucks/Whining/We're Doomed thread for this stuff?

Maybe it's the cubs that have become tiresome. Their offseasons haven't exactly been intriguing.

[CubsWin]

It's all coming out of one budget though.(baseball ops) It's still Theo's call as to allocate it in whatever way he wants. I'm not giving Ricketts credit for that. And yes, they spent big on Hendry's last amateur draft, but it was done partially because Hendry said it was the last time you could do it. Swear that was mentioned by him, not making it up.

 

Back to this past IFA class: It's possible I'm placing blame on Ricketts without him deserving SOME of it. Maybe the Cubs had other trades worked out to where they weren't planning on going over the top tier penalty and something fell through. But there were still a relatively solid amount(10+) top 30 type prospects out there after they knew they were over. Yes, plenty of these kids have agreements early on, but I think that a team doing as much work as the Cubs are doing down there could have come in and upped offers a couple hundred thousand on some of those guys and stolen them late. Blinded by Ricketts hate admittedly, but I'll use lack of money as the reason to not just annihilate the budget, instead of just going over by a bit.

 

I thought(hell, still hope with pop up guys) that we should have signed another 3-4 guys that were 500k types anyway. Nitpicking, but I think given our situation, Theo would have preferred to go much further than what we did on this.

I agree with you for the most part, but you're missing the point here. It's still Ricketts money. And none of it gets spent without him agreeing to spend it. If Cubs fans are allowed to criticize Ricketts for not spending more, then they can't say that the credit for the money that has been spent belongs to Theo.

[Guest]

I have never heard anything like that re: Hendry and I don't know that the restrictions were seen coming in June...at least not the extent to which they ended up being.

[CubsWin]

I have never heard anything like that re: Hendry and I don't know that the restrictions were seen coming in June...at least not the extent to which they ended up being.

Regardless if they knew what was in the new CBA or not, the Ricketts family still saw the benefit in spending the money, investing in the minor leagues and approved it.

 

Criticize them for not spending enough, for signing a bad contract with Zell or whatever you want, but the budget is what the budget is, they hired the guys that are spending it for them and those guys are fulfilling the Ricketts desire to build a long-term, consistent winning franchise. That's the Ricketts vision that Theo and Co are carrying out. They are open for criticism, no doubt. I'm just interested in giving credit where it is due, as well.

[Guest]

I have never heard anything like that re: Hendry and I don't know that the restrictions were seen coming in June...at least not the extent to which they ended up being.

Regardless if they knew what was in the new CBA or not, the Ricketts family still saw the benefit in spending the money, investing in the minor leagues and approved it.

 

Criticize them for not spending enough, for signing a bad contract with Zell or whatever you want, but the budget is what the budget is, they hired the guys that are spending it for them and those guys are fulfilling the Ricketts desire to build a long-term, consistent winning franchise. That's the Ricketts vision that Theo and Co are carrying out. They are open for criticism, no doubt. I'm just interested in giving credit where it is due, as well.

 

Yeah. I'm definitely much more happy with the long term direction of the franchise than I ever was with the Tribune (at least in my adult years when I had an opinion on such things).

[davell]

It's all coming out of one budget though.(baseball ops) It's still Theo's call as to allocate it in whatever way he wants. I'm not giving Ricketts credit for that. And yes, they spent big on Hendry's last amateur draft, but it was done partially because Hendry said it was the last time you could do it. Swear that was mentioned by him, not making it up.

 

Back to this past IFA class: It's possible I'm placing blame on Ricketts without him deserving SOME of it. Maybe the Cubs had other trades worked out to where they weren't planning on going over the top tier penalty and something fell through. But there were still a relatively solid amount(10+) top 30 type prospects out there after they knew they were over. Yes, plenty of these kids have agreements early on, but I think that a team doing as much work as the Cubs are doing down there could have come in and upped offers a couple hundred thousand on some of those guys and stolen them late. Blinded by Ricketts hate admittedly, but I'll use lack of money as the reason to not just annihilate the budget, instead of just going over by a bit.

 

I thought(hell, still hope with pop up guys) that we should have signed another 3-4 guys that were 500k types anyway. Nitpicking, but I think given our situation, Theo would have preferred to go much further than what we did on this.

I agree with you for the most part, but you're missing the point here. It's still Ricketts money. And none of it gets spent without him agreeing to spend it. If Cubs fans are allowed to criticize Ricketts for not spending more, then they can't say that the credit for the money that has been spent belongs to Theo.

 

Sure, it's Ricketts money, but as an owner, you spend money, unless you bought the team to fold it. Remember, Ricketts used the Red Sox model, so if Ricketts wanted money spent in that area, it was because Theo taught it to him to begin with. I've got a hard time giving Ricketts credit when he sets an entire budget, then leaves it to Theo to delegate how it's spent.

[Guest]

It's all coming out of one budget though.(baseball ops) It's still Theo's call as to allocate it in whatever way he wants. I'm not giving Ricketts credit for that. And yes, they spent big on Hendry's last amateur draft, but it was done partially because Hendry said it was the last time you could do it. Swear that was mentioned by him, not making it up.

 

Back to this past IFA class: It's possible I'm placing blame on Ricketts without him deserving SOME of it. Maybe the Cubs had other trades worked out to where they weren't planning on going over the top tier penalty and something fell through. But there were still a relatively solid amount(10+) top 30 type prospects out there after they knew they were over. Yes, plenty of these kids have agreements early on, but I think that a team doing as much work as the Cubs are doing down there could have come in and upped offers a couple hundred thousand on some of those guys and stolen them late. Blinded by Ricketts hate admittedly, but I'll use lack of money as the reason to not just annihilate the budget, instead of just going over by a bit.

 

I thought(hell, still hope with pop up guys) that we should have signed another 3-4 guys that were 500k types anyway. Nitpicking, but I think given our situation, Theo would have preferred to go much further than what we did on this.

I agree with you for the most part, but you're missing the point here. It's still Ricketts money. And none of it gets spent without him agreeing to spend it. If Cubs fans are allowed to criticize Ricketts for not spending more, then they can't say that the credit for the money that has been spent belongs to Theo.

 

Sure, it's Ricketts money, but as an owner, you spend money, unless you bought the team to fold it. Remember, Ricketts used the Red Sox model, so if Ricketts wanted money spent in that area, it was because Theo taught it to him to begin with. I've got a hard time giving Ricketts credit when he sets an entire budget, then leaves it to Theo to delegate how it's spent.

 

I'm pretty sure Ricketts was talking about IFA and amateur spending long before Theo got here. And the plans for the Dominican facility were already well underway.

[davell]

It's all coming out of one budget though.(baseball ops) It's still Theo's call as to allocate it in whatever way he wants. I'm not giving Ricketts credit for that. And yes, they spent big on Hendry's last amateur draft, but it was done partially because Hendry said it was the last time you could do it. Swear that was mentioned by him, not making it up.

 

Back to this past IFA class: It's possible I'm placing blame on Ricketts without him deserving SOME of it. Maybe the Cubs had other trades worked out to where they weren't planning on going over the top tier penalty and something fell through. But there were still a relatively solid amount(10+) top 30 type prospects out there after they knew they were over. Yes, plenty of these kids have agreements early on, but I think that a team doing as much work as the Cubs are doing down there could have come in and upped offers a couple hundred thousand on some of those guys and stolen them late. Blinded by Ricketts hate admittedly, but I'll use lack of money as the reason to not just annihilate the budget, instead of just going over by a bit.

 

I thought(hell, still hope with pop up guys) that we should have signed another 3-4 guys that were 500k types anyway. Nitpicking, but I think given our situation, Theo would have preferred to go much further than what we did on this.

I agree with you for the most part, but you're missing the point here. It's still Ricketts money. And none of it gets spent without him agreeing to spend it. If Cubs fans are allowed to criticize Ricketts for not spending more, then they can't say that the credit for the money that has been spent belongs to Theo.

 

Sure, it's Ricketts money, but as an owner, you spend money, unless you bought the team to fold it. Remember, Ricketts used the Red Sox model, so if Ricketts wanted money spent in that area, it was because Theo taught it to him to begin with. I've got a hard time giving Ricketts credit when he sets an entire budget, then leaves it to Theo to delegate how it's spent.

 

I'm pretty sure Ricketts was talking about IFA and amateur spending long before Theo got here. And the plans for the Dominican facility were already well underway.

He was talking and learning from the Red Sox prior to buying the team.

[Guest]

I'm pretty sure Ricketts was talking about IFA and amateur spending long before Theo got here. And the plans for the Dominican facility were already well underway.

He was talking and learning from the Red Sox prior to buying the team.

 

So you're saying Theo gets/deserves the credit for that?

[davell]

I'm pretty sure Ricketts was talking about IFA and amateur spending long before Theo got here. And the plans for the Dominican facility were already well underway.

He was talking and learning from the Red Sox prior to buying the team.

 

So you're saying Theo gets/deserves the credit for that?

[expletive] it, I can't stand Ricketts. I'm surely going too far with it right now.

[TruffleShuffle]

well i will say, if ricketts was gonna go cheap at least he was smart enough to hire an awesome front office that has the capability to win while being constrained by a mid-market payroll. jim hendry with a mediocre payroll would've been a train wreck.

[Backtobanks]

I agree with all of the Ricketts hate, but I still have a problem with all of the Theo love until we put a winning team on the field. Hopefully it's coming, but it looks like it's going to take longer than expected and there still are some question marks (i.e. pitching).

[TheDude]

Can we have an offseason thread where Kyle isn't allowed? It'd be nice to stop by for updates without having to weed through page after page of his tedious whining.

 

EDIT: I should mention that a mere blocking would not do the trick, as he manages to pull everyone else into his tediousness.

 

THIS! There's precious little Offseason Rumors in this thread. Seems like every topic degenerates into the same tiresome discussion. Maybe start a Ricketts Sucks/Whining/We're Doomed thread for this stuff?

Maybe it's the cubs that have become tiresome. Their offseasons haven't exactly been intriguing.

Before Ricketts it was Hendry and before that Tribune Company. There will always be something. The point is it doesn't have to dominate every [expletive] thread on the forum. This thread would be about 3 pages if it stayed on topic.

 

There are plenty of people who care about the offseason buzz. The only people who care about the endless Poor Tom Ricketts bs are those perpetuating it.

[pccubfan]

well i will say, if ricketts was gonna go cheap at least he was smart enough to hire an awesome front office that has the capability to win while being constrained by a mid-market payroll. jim hendry with a mediocre payroll would've been a train wreck.

 

Sorry, but I'm going to have to see it before I give them credit for it.

[TruffleShuffle]

well i will say, if ricketts was gonna go cheap at least he was smart enough to hire an awesome front office that has the capability to win while being constrained by a mid-market payroll. jim hendry with a mediocre payroll would've been a train wreck.

 

Sorry, but I'm going to have to see it before I give them credit for it.

 

well, he took over a roster and a minor league system largely bereft of talent, and the owner yanked payroll down by $30-40m per year when most clubs in the game have been rolling in dough. i'm not too sure what you expected was going to happen.

[pccubfan]

well i will say, if ricketts was gonna go cheap at least he was smart enough to hire an awesome front office that has the capability to win while being constrained by a mid-market payroll. jim hendry with a mediocre payroll would've been a train wreck.

 

Sorry, but I'm going to have to see it before I give them credit for it.

 

well, he took over a roster and a minor league system largely bereft of talent, and the owner yanked payroll down by $30-40m per year when most clubs in the game have been rolling in dough. i'm not too sure what you expected was going to happen.

 

You're the one giving the FO credit for something they haven't accomplished yet. I won't have any problem giving them credit when they actually accomplish that winning part. And if they can do it without the constraint of a mid-market payroll, I'll give them credit anyway.

[CUBZ99]

well i will say, if ricketts was gonna go cheap at least he was smart enough to hire an awesome front office that has the capability to win while being constrained by a mid-market payroll. jim hendry with a mediocre payroll would've been a train wreck.

 

Sorry, but I'm going to have to see it before I give them credit for it.

 

well, he took over a roster and a minor league system largely bereft of talent, and the owner yanked payroll down by $30-40m per year when most clubs in the game have been rolling in dough. i'm not too sure what you expected was going to happen.

 

You're the one giving the FO credit for something they haven't accomplished yet. I won't have any problem giving them credit when they actually accomplish that winning part. And if they can do it without the constraint of a mid-market payroll, I'll give them credit anyway.

 

I agree, I'm pretty sure that at one point Hendry had a lower payroll than the current front office and had a top 1-3 ranked farm system and a team that competed in the division.

 

I do like what Epstein and Hoyer have done with the farm system, but it gets old hearing the excuses on why the front office can't spend, when the Cubs are one of the most profitable teams in the league. There is no excuse for them not being able to compete year in and year out.

[mul21]

 

I agree, I'm pretty sure that at one point Hendry had a lower payroll than the current front office and had a top 1-3 ranked farm system and a team that competed in the division.

 

I do like what Epstein and Hoyer have done with the farm system, but it gets old hearing the excuses on why the front office can't spend, when the Cubs are one of the most profitable teams in the league. There is no excuse for them not being able to compete year in and year out.

 

Kind of hard to compare payrolls from 10 years ago with the numbers the way they are now. An $80 million payroll in 2003/4 was a really solid number then. It's peanuts now.

[KingCubsFan]

Would the system be that much worse?

 

OK, we win 75 games in 2012 and don't make the trades.

 

We still have 6 of our current top 10, plus the 2013 No. 12 pick or whatever.

 

Uh.... Yes?

Wasn't Kyle the one who said picks in the top 3 or top 5 are valuable, and the rest of the draft is pretty much a crapshoot?