Re: New GM/Cubs Future News Articles

[Magnetic Curses]

The Sox have some leverage -- time. What motivation do they have to resolve this quickly? Or before opening day for that matter?

 

Wait, what? They need to hire a new manager and deal with coming off a disappointing season, potentially trying to deal away bad contracts and dealing with expiring ones and singing new FA. In short, they have a lot do do and leaving the FA in turmoil isn't going to help at all. The Red Sox very much have motivation to get this done quickly.

Like I said, they can officially name Cherington the GM anytime. He's already acting in that role, and presumably he's working on all the things you mentioned.

 

This Theo stuff isn't holding up any of that.

 

No, I'm sorry, that's an absurdly messy situation. To think it's likely they'd go through that just to play hardball over not getting top prospects is, well, absurd. It would be one thing if the Cubs were trying to force them to walk away with nothing, but the reports/rumors seem to indicate they're willing to give up players and money. The Sox are just trying to shoot for the moon with the player compensation, likely because they think they can push around someone they view (or viewed) as fatally green to this in Ricketts.

 

Nevermind the legalities of Theo's contract and the dissent it would sow.

 

i get the idea they think ricketts is some hog farmer from the midwest.

[MSG T]

Like I said, they can officially name Cherington the GM anytime. He's already acting in that role, and presumably he's working on all the things you mentioned.

 

This Theo stuff isn't holding up any of that.

 

The words "breach of contract" come to mind.

 

Theo has an employment agreement wherein he performs certain duties, has authority over members of the organization, and is the GM. Stripping him of those duties or naming someone else GM while Theo is still employed by the Red Sox as GM would cause them a whole mess of legal trouble.

That's possible, but 100% speculative. We don't know what options the Sox do and don't have, contractually.

 

 

It's far less speculative than what you're proposing as a possibility.

[davearm2]

The Sox have some leverage -- time. What motivation do they have to resolve this quickly? Or before opening day for that matter?

 

Wait, what? They need to hire a new manager and deal with coming off a disappointing season, potentially trying to deal away bad contracts and dealing with expiring ones and singing new FA. In short, they have a lot do do and leaving the FA in turmoil isn't going to help at all. The Red Sox very much have motivation to get this done quickly.

Like I said, they can officially name Cherington the GM anytime. He's already acting in that role, and presumably he's working on all the things you mentioned.

 

This Theo stuff isn't holding up any of that.

 

No, I'm sorry, that's an absurdly messy situation. To think it's likely they'd go through that just to play hardball over not getting top prospects is, well, absurd. It would be one thing if the Cubs were trying to force them to walk away with nothing, but the reports/rumors seem to indicate they're willing to give up players and money. The Sox are just trying to shoot for the moon with the player compensation, likely because they think they can push around someone they view (or viewed) as fatally green to this in Ricketts.

 

Nevermind the legalities of Theo's contract and the dissent it would sow.

Well it seems clear that we've got an old-fashioned standoff here.

 

I do think someone will blink, and everything will get worked out. I'm just not 100% sold that the Cubs won't budge, and the Sox will rescind their exhorbitant demands. That'd be yet another egg on their face.

[CUBZ99]

The Sons of Sam Horn guys are really taking their frustration out on us Cubs fans. I'd normally be upset, but it's actually kind of funny.

 

This is a hilarious read. I thought the SOSH people were supposed to be level headed "smart" posters.

 

I mean I know their viewpoints are going to be unconsciously biased towards the Red Sox and vice versa for us, but some of the things they are saying are just plain ridiculous.

 

They think that not only do the Sox have all the leverage, but they have significant leverage. Nah, I don't think so guys.

The Sox have some leverage -- time. What motivation do they have to resolve this quickly? Or before opening day for that matter?

 

They can come out and announce Cherington is the GM and Epstein's role is being sorted out, or he's a special assistant, or whatever they want.

 

Meanwhile the Cubs have no GM.

 

The Sox can say "take it or leave it" indefinitely. The Cubs don't have that luxury.

 

I think you are kidding yourself. They don't want Theo and know that he doesn't want to be there. If he stays they are stuck with a high level employee that won't be GM and won't have a position. They are also stuck with with approximately $6MM obligation ($3.5MM buyout, $2.5MM+2012 salary) to Epstein. I know they have all kinds of money to waste (Crawford, Lackey, Beckett....) but why would they want to waste another $6MM only to have him leave at the end of the year anyways?

 

The Red Sox have done a terrible job of trying to control the narrative of this whole transaction.

[Outshined_One]

Like I said, they can officially name Cherington the GM anytime. He's already acting in that role, and presumably he's working on all the things you mentioned.

 

This Theo stuff isn't holding up any of that.

 

The words "breach of contract" come to mind.

 

Theo has an employment agreement wherein he performs certain duties, has authority over members of the organization, and is the GM. Stripping him of those duties or naming someone else GM while Theo is still employed by the Red Sox as GM would cause them a whole mess of legal trouble.

That's possible, but 100% speculative. We don't know what options the Sox do and don't have, contractually.

 

Which is why we must speculate about the Red Sox stripping Theo of his duties and title without any legal repercussions whatsoever.

[davearm2]

The Sons of Sam Horn guys are really taking their frustration out on us Cubs fans. I'd normally be upset, but it's actually kind of funny.

 

This is a hilarious read. I thought the SOSH people were supposed to be level headed "smart" posters.

 

I mean I know their viewpoints are going to be unconsciously biased towards the Red Sox and vice versa for us, but some of the things they are saying are just plain ridiculous.

 

They think that not only do the Sox have all the leverage, but they have significant leverage. Nah, I don't think so guys.

The Sox have some leverage -- time. What motivation do they have to resolve this quickly? Or before opening day for that matter?

 

They can come out and announce Cherington is the GM and Epstein's role is being sorted out, or he's a special assistant, or whatever they want.

 

Meanwhile the Cubs have no GM.

 

The Sox can say "take it or leave it" indefinitely. The Cubs don't have that luxury.

 

I think you are kidding yourself. They don't want Theo and know that he doesn't want to be there. If he stays they are stuck with a high level employee that won't be GM and won't have a position. They are also stuck with with approximately $6MM obligation ($3.5MM buyout, $2.5MM+2012 salary) to Epstein. I know they have all kinds of money to waste (Crawford, Lackey, Beckett....) but why would they want to waste another $6MM only to have him leave at the end of the year anyways?

 

The Red Sox have done a terrible job of trying to control the narrative of this whole transaction.

Well as I said above I think this will get worked out... eventually.

 

The Red Sox can leave it in limbo for much longer than the Cubs can, though. There's not the same urgency on their part. The Cubs absolutely have to have a GM in place by the end of the WS. If the Sox let Theo and the Cubs twist in the wind for a month or whatever, what's the harm to them?

 

Other pressing issues can't be addressed? Why not?

 

Other young executives won't want to work for them in the future? Please.

[MSG T]

The Sons of Sam Horn guys are really taking their frustration out on us Cubs fans. I'd normally be upset, but it's actually kind of funny.

 

This is a hilarious read. I thought the SOSH people were supposed to be level headed "smart" posters.

 

I mean I know their viewpoints are going to be unconsciously biased towards the Red Sox and vice versa for us, but some of the things they are saying are just plain ridiculous.

 

They think that not only do the Sox have all the leverage, but they have significant leverage. Nah, I don't think so guys.

The Sox have some leverage -- time. What motivation do they have to resolve this quickly? Or before opening day for that matter?

 

Maybe I'm mistaken, but don't the Cubs also currently have a GM? Sure, it's not the perfect situation, but last I heard Randy Bush is still employed by the Cubs.

 

They can come out and announce Cherington is the GM and Epstein's role is being sorted out, or he's a special assistant, or whatever they want.

 

Meanwhile the Cubs have no GM.

 

The Sox can say "take it or leave it" indefinitely. The Cubs don't have that luxury.

 

I think you are kidding yourself. They don't want Theo and know that he doesn't want to be there. If he stays they are stuck with a high level employee that won't be GM and won't have a position. They are also stuck with with approximately $6MM obligation ($3.5MM buyout, $2.5MM+2012 salary) to Epstein. I know they have all kinds of money to waste (Crawford, Lackey, Beckett....) but why would they want to waste another $6MM only to have him leave at the end of the year anyways?

 

The Red Sox have done a terrible job of trying to control the narrative of this whole transaction.

Well as I said above I think this will get worked out... eventually.

 

The Red Sox can leave it in limbo for much longer than the Cubs can, though. There's not the same urgency on their part. The Cubs absolutely have to have a GM in place by the end of the WS. If the Sox let Theo and the Cubs twist in the wind for a month or whatever, what's the harm to them?

 

Other pressing issues can't be addressed? Why not?

 

Other young executives won't want to work for them in the future? Please.

[davearm2]

Like I said, they can officially name Cherington the GM anytime. He's already acting in that role, and presumably he's working on all the things you mentioned.

 

This Theo stuff isn't holding up any of that.

 

The words "breach of contract" come to mind.

 

Theo has an employment agreement wherein he performs certain duties, has authority over members of the organization, and is the GM. Stripping him of those duties or naming someone else GM while Theo is still employed by the Red Sox as GM would cause them a whole mess of legal trouble.

That's possible, but 100% speculative. We don't know what options the Sox do and don't have, contractually.

 

Which is why we must speculate about the Red Sox stripping Theo of his duties and title without any legal repercussions whatsoever.

Nevermind the titles, that's a triviality. If Cherington and Henry and Lucchino start scheduling interviews with potential managerial hires, and don't invite Theo to those meetings, what's Theo going to do? Sue them?

[Sammy Sofa]

Well, you're apparently banking on there being no legal repercussions, no effect from the internal strife this would cause and no impact on what is likely going to be a major offseason for them. Other than that, yeah, there's little reason they could let this drag out!

[MSG T]

Stupid phone.

 

Don't the Cubs also currently have a GM? I don't remember Bush being fired.

[Sammy Sofa]

Nevermind the titles, that's a triviality. If Cherington and Henry and Lucchino start scheduling interviews with potential managerial hires, and don't invite Theo to those meetings, what's Theo going to do? Sue them?

 

Potentially, yes. Or MLB steps in.

[Magnetic Curses]

how can the red sox function with a GM under contract that they will not release? he's got duties that he has been contracted to perform, if he is not allowed to perform those duties, yet is not given his release, that opens up a huge can of labor worms that they don't want. they cannot hold him hostage, and they won't.

[Outshined_One]

Well as I said above I think this will get worked out... eventually.

 

The Red Sox can leave it in limbo for much longer than the Cubs can, though. There's not the same urgency on their part. The Cubs absolutely have to have a GM in place by the end of the WS. If the Sox let Theo and the Cubs twist in the wind for a month or whatever, what's the harm to them?

 

Other pressing issues can't be addressed? Why not?

 

Other young executives won't want to work for them in the future? Please.

 

That's possible, but 100% speculative.

[CUBZ99]

The Sons of Sam Horn guys are really taking their frustration out on us Cubs fans. I'd normally be upset, but it's actually kind of funny.

 

This is a hilarious read. I thought the SOSH people were supposed to be level headed "smart" posters.

 

I mean I know their viewpoints are going to be unconsciously biased towards the Red Sox and vice versa for us, but some of the things they are saying are just plain ridiculous.

 

They think that not only do the Sox have all the leverage, but they have significant leverage. Nah, I don't think so guys.

The Sox have some leverage -- time. What motivation do they have to resolve this quickly? Or before opening day for that matter?

 

They can come out and announce Cherington is the GM and Epstein's role is being sorted out, or he's a special assistant, or whatever they want.

 

Meanwhile the Cubs have no GM.

 

The Sox can say "take it or leave it" indefinitely. The Cubs don't have that luxury.

 

I think you are kidding yourself. They don't want Theo and know that he doesn't want to be there. If he stays they are stuck with a high level employee that won't be GM and won't have a position. They are also stuck with with approximately $6MM obligation ($3.5MM buyout, $2.5MM+2012 salary) to Epstein. I know they have all kinds of money to waste (Crawford, Lackey, Beckett....) but why would they want to waste another $6MM only to have him leave at the end of the year anyways?

 

The Red Sox have done a terrible job of trying to control the narrative of this whole transaction.

Well as I said above I think this will get worked out... eventually.

 

The Red Sox can leave it in limbo for much longer than the Cubs can, though. There's not the same urgency on their part. The Cubs absolutely have to have a GM in place by the end of the WS. If the Sox let Theo and the Cubs twist in the wind for a month or whatever, what's the harm to them?

 

Other pressing issues can't be addressed? Why not?

 

Other young executives won't want to work for them in the future? Please.

 

I agree that it will get worked out, but the risk to the Red Sox is that the Cubs get tired of waiting and move on. According to the reports Ricketts did a thorough search and had interviewed other candidates in case Epstein didn't work out. I am thrilled that Epstein appears to be the next GM, but I think the biggest part of this search that has been overlooked is that we actually have an ownership group that gets it. I think the fact that Ricketts buys into significant fundamental changes to the team is far more important than obtaining any one person as GM.

[Guest]

You may actually be understating it. Brett Jackson (Cubs #1 prospect) would probably slot into our system at 5, behind Middlebrooks, Kalish, Ranaudo and Bogaerts, Matt Szczur would likely be at 8-10 and no one else in the Cubs system would be in our top 10-12 (not counting Baez, who is not eligible to be traded). Trey McNutt and Rafael Dolis would likely slot into the mid-teens.

 

lol, the Sox farm system is good, but ok Keith Law

 

@jimcallisBA Near top but more solid regular than star. @dan_omara: how would Brett Jackson rank in #RedSox system should he be dealt for Epstein?

 

ETA: Dolis probably shouldn't rank in the Cubs' mid-teens.

[Guest]

This thread is in desperate need of news.

 

Yes.

 

I was driving from Big Sur (45 minutes south of Monterey, CA) to San Diego yesterday and caught up on about 40 pages of it while riding as passenger. The last 15 pages have been borderline unbearable in places. I couldn't hold back making some smart ass comment any longer.

 

You spent hours reading 40 pages of NSBB while one of the most beautiful stretches of highway the world has to offer passed by right out the window.

 

Wow.

 

Haha, that's what I was thinking.

[davearm2]

Well, you're apparently banking on there being no legal repercussions, no effect from the internal strife this would cause and no impact on what is likely going to be a major offseason for them. Other than that, yeah, there's little reason they could let this drag out!

The point is, dragging it out impacts the Cubs more. If the Cubs do not have a new GM in place by the end of the World Series, that's a major problem for them. Meanwhile the Sox can move forward with Cherington as the de-facto GM.

 

Ergo, leverage Red Sox.

[Sammy Sofa]

Well, you're apparently banking on there being no legal repercussions, no effect from the internal strife this would cause and no impact on what is likely going to be a major offseason for them. Other than that, yeah, there's little reason they could let this drag out!

The point is, dragging it out impacts the Cubs more. If the Cubs do not have a new GM in place by the end of the World Series, that's a major problem for them.

 

Ergo, leverage Red Sox.

 

Well, no, because the reports seem to be indicating that Ricketts has had overtures out there to multiple candidates, so if they want to move on they can and could almost certainly have the position filled by one of their other top picks by the end of the WS.

[MSG T]

Well, you're apparently banking on there being no legal repercussions, no effect from the internal strife this would cause and no impact on what is likely going to be a major offseason for them. Other than that, yeah, there's little reason they could let this drag out!

The point is, dragging it out impacts the Cubs more. If the Cubs do not have a new GM in place by the end of the World Series, that's a major problem for them.

 

Ergo, leverage Red Sox.

 

 

The Cubs aren't in any bigger hole not having Theo by then than the Red Sox are if they still have him. In fact, the Cubs would probably be in better shape. They may not have their new FO fully in place, but at least it's not a war zone.

 

i.e. the Red Sox have no leverage.

[Four and Twenty]

This thread is in desperate need of news.

 

Yes.

 

I was driving from Big Sur (45 minutes south of Monterey, CA) to San Diego yesterday and caught up on about 40 pages of it while riding as passenger. The last 15 pages have been borderline unbearable in places. I couldn't hold back making some smart ass comment any longer.

 

You spent hours reading 40 pages of NSBB while one of the most beautiful stretches of highway the world has to offer passed by right out the window.

 

Wow.

 

I live in Big Sur, California, with an ocean view 700 feet above the Pacific. Nothing south of it compares, especially by night. So yes, I spent my time reading NSBB threads while driving through LA traffic.

 

Wow, sure.

[davearm2]

I agree that it will get worked out, but the risk to the Red Sox is that the Cubs get tired of waiting and move on. According to the reports Ricketts did a thorough search and had interviewed other candidates in case Epstein didn't work out. I am thrilled that Epstein appears to be the next GM, but I think the biggest part of this search that has been overlooked is that we actually have an ownership group that gets it. I think the fact that Ricketts buys into significant fundamental changes to the team is far more important than obtaining any one person as GM.

I think most would agree that exercising the nuclear option would hurt the Cubs in the long run far more than giving up the prospects the Red Sox want for Epstein.

[Outshined_One]

I think most would agree that exercising the nuclear option would hurt the Cubs in the long run far more than giving up the prospects the Red Sox want for Epstein.

 

That's possible, but 100% speculative.

[davearm2]

Well, you're apparently banking on there being no legal repercussions, no effect from the internal strife this would cause and no impact on what is likely going to be a major offseason for them. Other than that, yeah, there's little reason they could let this drag out!

The point is, dragging it out impacts the Cubs more. If the Cubs do not have a new GM in place by the end of the World Series, that's a major problem for them.

 

Ergo, leverage Red Sox.

 

Well, no, because the reports seem to be indicating that Ricketts has had overtures out there to multiple candidates, so if they want to move on they can and could almost certainly have the position filled by one of their other top picks by the end of the WS.

Which would hurt the Cubs more in the long run: losing one or two prospects they wanted to keep, or losing Epstein?

 

If you say the former, you're lying.

[OleMissCub]

That's possible, but 100% speculative.

 

nice, you redundant [expletive]

[Sammy Sofa]

I agree that it will get worked out, but the risk to the Red Sox is that the Cubs get tired of waiting and move on. According to the reports Ricketts did a thorough search and had interviewed other candidates in case Epstein didn't work out. I am thrilled that Epstein appears to be the next GM, but I think the biggest part of this search that has been overlooked is that we actually have an ownership group that gets it. I think the fact that Ricketts buys into significant fundamental changes to the team is far more important than obtaining any one person as GM.

I think most would agree that exercising the nuclear option would hurt the Cubs in the long run far more than giving up the prospects the Red Sox want for Epstein.

 

I don't think most would agree with that at all. This isn't a "Theo or bust" situation for the Cubs.