Latest from Phil Rogers

[Backtobanks]

In his power rankings column in today's Tribune, he suggests the new GM should sign Garza to a contract through 2014 with an option for 2015 (without NTC) and then work out a mega-deal with the Royals for Moustakas and other prospects. Obviously it would be great to get Moustakas, but I'm not sure who is going to pitch for the Cubs.

[javy knows my name]

In his power rankings column in today's Tribune, he suggests the new GM should sign Garza to a contract through 2014 with an option for 2015 (without NTC) and then work out a mega-deal with the Royals for Moustakas and other prospects. Obviously it would be great to get Moustakas, but I'm not sure who is going to pitch for the Cubs.

 

Maybe just throw this in the FJM thread. Phil Rogers sooo doesn't deserve his own thread (and neither do his trade proposals)

[WeGotWood98]

Just for the lawl....What're we giving up in this mega deal for Royals prospects? Moustakas is overrated as all heck....I'd do an uber-deal for Hosmer, but the Royals wouldn't.

[Clem Fandango]

How is Moustakas overrated, again?

[TruffleShuffle]

How is Moustakas overrated, again?

 

well he's been pretty bad for kc. granted he's still young and there's room to improve, but i guess the poster just doesn't think he's as good a prospect as most people think he is. i'm kind of in the same camp... i think there's a pretty good chance that he's a bust.

[XZero771679666304]

How is Moustakas overrated, again?

 

well he's been pretty bad for kc. granted he's still young and there's room to improve, but i guess the poster just doesn't think he's as good a prospect as most people think he is. i'm kind of in the same camp... i think there's a pretty good chance that he's a bust.

 

Didn't he play a good chunk of his milb games in an extreme hitter's park and have some really lopsided splits? I remember reading that.

[Backtobanks]

How is Moustakas overrated, again?

 

well he's been pretty bad for kc. granted he's still young and there's room to improve, but i guess the poster just doesn't think he's as good a prospect as most people think he is. i'm kind of in the same camp... i think there's a pretty good chance that he's a bust.

 

Well let's trade him even up for Vitters.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

How is Moustakas overrated, again?

 

Not a big fan of his style of hitter as it is (high K, low BB)...his D/athleticism aren't great either, though it'll pass while he's still a hot name...Royals prospects play in some nice hitters parks, and his numbers in the PCL for the PCL are nice in a "I guess" kind of way.

 

I lean towards future bust. The gem hitter is Hosmer, who should be absolutely awesome.

 

 

Well let's trade him even up for Vitters.

 

No. It's a case of greener pastures + what have you done for me lately....I like Vitters alot.

[Outshined_One]

Extending Garza would be smart.

[Tryptamine]

Moustakas has taken a long time to adjust at most levels. I wouldn't be at all concerned with him unless he's doing the same thing after the ASB next year.

[TruffleShuffle]

ok i'm not that high on moustakas but not trading him for vitters would be insane.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

ok i'm not that high on moustakas but not trading him for vitters would be insane.

 

Why? Because he's more touted right now?

[TruffleShuffle]

ok i'm not that high on moustakas but not trading him for vitters would be insane.

 

Why? Because he's more touted right now?

 

that and the 1.000 ops he posted in AA/AAA at age 21 while vitters has an ops below .800 in AA at age 22. and vitters is a bad fielder.

[Guest]

ok i'm not that high on moustakas but not trading him for vitters would be insane.

 

Why? Because he's more touted right now?

 

that and the 1.000 ops he posted in AA/AAA at age 21 while vitters has an ops below .800 in AA at age 22. and vitters is a bad fielder.

Vitters is going to post an ops below .800 in Tennessee next year?

[TruffleShuffle]

21 and 11 months, now 22.

[Guest]

21 and 11 months, now 22.

1) seasonal age in baseball is determined by age as of 7/1 - Vitters was 21

2) he's going to play about 19/20ths of this season as a 21 year old

3) 9/11/88 vs 8/27/89 for the birthdays. If you're going to give Vitters the extra year, have the intellectual honesty to do the same thing for Moustakas

[TruffleShuffle]

i didn't look up when moose was born because i didn't care. so vitters is OPS'ing below .800 at the same age that moose posted a 1.000 ops at the same level and a higher level, and vitters is a bad defender at third base which cuts into his already marginal offensive value. there's the argument.

[Guest]

i didn't look up when moose was born because i didn't care. so vitters is OPS'ing below .800 at the same age that moose posted a 1.000 ops at the same level and a higher level, and vitters is a bad defender at third base which cuts into his already marginal offensive value. there's the argument.

There you go!

 

I just remembered from that draft that Vitters was nearly a full year younger than Moustakas. He's been around so long, it's easy to forget that Vitters is still pretty young.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

ok i'm not that high on moustakas but not trading him for vitters would be insane.

 

Why? Because he's more touted right now?

 

that and the 1.000 ops he posted in AA/AAA at age 21 while vitters has an ops below .800 in AA at age 22. and vitters is a bad fielder.

 

Texas League and PCL = Much better hitting environments than the Southern League, and IIRC the Royals' minor league teams are supposed to have very nice hitters parks within those leagues. That doesn't cover everything, but throw in poor K:BB numbers and The PCL especially is just a ridiculous hitting environment. The average hitter in the PCL this year is throwing up an .810 OPS, it's that over the top when it comes to hitting over there. I'm actually very interested to see what Vitters does in AAA next year, because I think he can really break out in the forgiving PCL environment.

 

I also have alot of trouble buying minor league defensive reputations. There's been plenty of players who made very good and even great careers at positions they weren't going to make it at. Also, Moustakas isn't a very good defensive 3B either.

 

Personally, I like Vitters' contact, line drive based offensive game more when it comes to the long term. He's also bigger, a touch more athletic, and a little younger too, so I'm hoping for and thinking we'll see more impressive power (particularly doubles). Lets not forget that Moustakas went into 2010 with his prospect status up in the air, and things changed fast.

 

Edit:

 

2010 Texas League OPS: .721...2010 Royals' Texas League Team's OPS: .817.

Edited August 31, 2011 by WeGotWood98

[TruffleShuffle]

throw in poor K:BB numbers

 

moustakas' ratio was 34 bb/67 k in 534 plate appearances last year. vitters has 21 bb/52 k in 465 plate appearances this year, and that's an improvement over previous years.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

throw in poor K:BB numbers

 

moustakas' ratio was 34 bb/67 k in 534 plate appearances last year. vitters has 21 bb/52 k in 465 plate appearances this year, and that's an improvement over previous years.

 

Fair enough. I'm still far less worried about Vitters' ability to make contact than I am with Moustakas, and I'd still take Vitters in the long run.

[TruffleShuffle]

throw in poor K:BB numbers

 

moustakas' ratio was 34 bb/67 k in 534 plate appearances last year. vitters has 21 bb/52 k in 465 plate appearances this year, and that's an improvement over previous years.

 

Fair enough. I'm still far less worried about Vitters' ability to make contact than I am with Moustakas, and I'd still take Vitters in the long run.

 

right, but that doesn't make a lot of sense. moustakas struck out in 15.4% of his minor league plate appearances. that's not a high number, and he's striking out at a lower rate in the majors. vitters has struck out in 14.9% of his minor league plate appearances. we're talking about a difference of half a percent. where are you getting this idea that moustakas is a wind machine with significant contact issues?

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

right, but that doesn't make a lot of sense. moustakas struck out in 15.4% of his minor league plate appearances. that's not a high number, and he's striking out at a lower rate in the majors. vitters has struck out in 14.9% of his minor league plate appearances. we're talking about a difference of half a percent. where are you getting this idea that moustakas is a wind machine with significant contact issues?

 

Moustakas' contact issue comes in the scouting. He swings at crap and still has trouble with breaking balls. He likes the high fastball too much, and it's an easy pitch to get beat on.

[Guest]

right, but that doesn't make a lot of sense. moustakas struck out in 15.4% of his minor league plate appearances. that's not a high number, and he's striking out at a lower rate in the majors. vitters has struck out in 14.9% of his minor league plate appearances. we're talking about a difference of half a percent. where are you getting this idea that moustakas is a wind machine with significant contact issues?

 

Moustakas' contact issue comes in the scouting. He swings at crap and still has trouble with breaking balls. He likes the high fastball too much, and it's an easy pitch to get beat on.

He can't be having that much trouble with either laying off those pitches or making contact with them. It would be showing in his stats if he were.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

He can't be having that much trouble with either laying off those pitches or making contact with them. It would be showing in his stats if he were.

 

Scouting wise as a shorter player, the high fastball would be a natural enemy. It's a pitch that looks tempting all the time, but it's arguably the toughest pitch to hit when set up correctly. At the major league level that's a fairly easy trait to exploit, and he'll have to make adjustments. That could take a while. He's also one of those guys who gets the body + athleticism tag. There's already worry that he fills out his lower body too much as he gets older and starts heading the way of an all or nothing guy.

 

As far as showing up in the numbers, just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't. I have to bring it back to the leagues and parks he's played in. I believe that his K:BB is influenced by the very favorable hitting environments he's played in, and helped hide some of his weaknesses.