Front Office Concerned About Spending Big $ on One Player

[questionmarkgrace]

Yeah, Carlos Zambrano had another tantrum, so they should just spread the wealth amongst a bunch of guys like Jorge Cantu, Wilson Betemit, Edwin Jackson, and Jason Frasor.

 

I would love to fill the hole at 1B with Fielder or Pujols as long as we can do it without signing either of them for 6+ years, but I don't know if that's very realistic.

 

I was perusing a list of 2012 free agents, and saw some interesting names besides the turds you listed.

 

I would welcome guys like Jason Kubel and Michael Cuddyer as cheaper offensive options assuming the Colvin experiment doesn't work out.

 

I've seen a lot of talk about C.J. Wilson on here. He's a great pitcher, but since he's one of the bigger names available, he's going to get paid. Paul Maholm's overall numbers actually compare pretty similarly to Wilson's (minus the strikeouts) and I would assume he could be had much cheaper. Although, I would expect Wilson's numbers to improve with a move to the NL.

 

I guess I'm just saying I don't think it's an absolute necessity to sign the sexy names this offseason in order to improve the team. It seems perfectly reasonable to me for the FO to have concerns about sinking big bucks into one player.

 

Basically, the Olney tweet is pretty damn obvious.

 

By the way, here's the list I was using. http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2001/04/potential-free-agents-for-2012.html

 

If it's incorrect, or if I'm missing something, I apologize.

 

To me, keeping Ramirez around for next season should be the top priority. 3B will be a [expletive] otherwise.

 

I like Maholm enough. I think the Pirates will likely keep him. That said ... the strikeouts are gigantic factor. I just found it interesting that you would say they are similar minus the strikeouts. CJ's ability to get people to whiff is why folks consider him a solid mid-rotation starter, a 2, 2/3 type of guy. Maholm's more of a 4th starter type on a good squad, maybe a 3rd starter. It's not a gigantic difference, but there is a significant enough difference because of the strikeouts.

 

It's quibbling but I think Wilson is more of a TOR 1/2 type than a 2/3 type. This is assuming the team doesn't have the all powerful "true ace," which most team's don't. He's the Rangers ace right now, and was their 2 last year only after Lee was acquired. His big peripheral improvements plus my amateur eye show a pitcher who's taken to the SP role extremely well.

 

my concern is that he still walks a heck of a lot of people and his BABIP will rise considerably with a move to the cubs. Those two factors suggest that, all things being equal, he wont be as good here as with the Rangers. But then again he could move to the NL and just completely dominate.

[questionmarkgrace]

From Buster Olney's Twitter.

 

@Buster_ESPN:

 

Just mentioned: In some important corners of the Cubs' front office, there is concern about investing huge $ in one player this winter.

 

 

This is unfortunate if true. Its nice to see us spend on the farm but its seems all for naught if we cant mix in some top free agent talent. The chances of us pulling off what the marlins did in 03 and 97 with almost all home grown talent is slim, especially for an organizational without any legitimate philosophy on player development.

 

In think we may be reading this wrong though. It might not be the cubs going cheap. there is a chance that the cubs now realize that they cannot fix this teams problems with a single big acquisition. With Ramirez's option to pick up, possibly two starting pitching spots open, first base, and maybe outfield there just isnt enough money to go around. Plus signing Fielder suggests that we are losing out on Ramirez because we still need help in other areas. Getting fielder and playing Baker and Flarhety at third is also (approximately) only equal to retaining Ramirez and Pena offensively. Clearly the preference is to keep Ramirez, sign Fielder, and a starter. That would really improve our team. But I dont think the money is there to do all of that.

[Tarver]

I'll wait to see how the offseason plays out before I pull out my noose and pitchfork. The retention of Hendry and Pena would be an absolute PR nightmare for the Cubs. Someone amongst the Ricketts family has to know that.

[Tarver]

From Buster Olney's Twitter.

 

@Buster_ESPN:

 

Just mentioned: In some important corners of the Cubs' front office, there is concern about investing huge $ in one player this winter.

 

 

This is unfortunate if true. Its nice to see us spend on the farm but its seems all for naught if we cant mix in some top free agent talent. The chances of us pulling off what the marlins did in 03 and 97 with almost all home grown talent is slim, especially for an organizational without any legitimate philosophy on player development.

 

In think we may be reading this wrong though. It might not be the cubs going cheap. there is a chance that the cubs now realize that they cannot fix this teams problems with a single big acquisition. With Ramirez's option to pick up, possibly two starting pitching spots open, first base, and maybe outfield there just isnt enough money to go around. Plus signing Fielder suggests that we are losing out on Ramirez because we still need help in other areas. Getting fielder and playing Baker and Flarhety at third is also (approximately) only equal to retaining Ramirez and Pena offensively. Clearly the preference is to keep Ramirez, sign Fielder, and a starter. That would really improve our team. But I dont think the money is there to do all of that.

 

03 was mostly homegrown, but Huizenga paid top dollar for the '97 team, hence it's immediate dismantling.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Yeah, Carlos Zambrano had another tantrum, so they should just spread the wealth amongst a bunch of guys like Jorge Cantu, Wilson Betemit, Edwin Jackson, and Jason Frasor.

 

I would love to fill the hole at 1B with Fielder or Pujols as long as we can do it without signing either of them for 6+ years, but I don't know if that's very realistic.

 

I was perusing a list of 2012 free agents, and saw some interesting names besides the turds you listed.

 

I would welcome guys like Jason Kubel and Michael Cuddyer as cheaper offensive options assuming the Colvin experiment doesn't work out.

 

I've seen a lot of talk about C.J. Wilson on here. He's a great pitcher, but since he's one of the bigger names available, he's going to get paid. Paul Maholm's overall numbers actually compare pretty similarly to Wilson's (minus the strikeouts) and I would assume he could be had much cheaper. Although, I would expect Wilson's numbers to improve with a move to the NL.

 

I guess I'm just saying I don't think it's an absolute necessity to sign the sexy names this offseason in order to improve the team. It seems perfectly reasonable to me for the FO to have concerns about sinking big bucks into one player.

 

Basically, the Olney tweet is pretty damn obvious.

 

By the way, here's the list I was using. http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2001/04/potential-free-agents-for-2012.html

 

If it's incorrect, or if I'm missing something, I apologize.

 

To me, keeping Ramirez around for next season should be the top priority. 3B will be a [expletive] otherwise.

 

I like Maholm enough. I think the Pirates will likely keep him. That said ... the strikeouts are gigantic factor. I just found it interesting that you would say they are similar minus the strikeouts. CJ's ability to get people to whiff is why folks consider him a solid mid-rotation starter, a 2, 2/3 type of guy. Maholm's more of a 4th starter type on a good squad, maybe a 3rd starter. It's not a gigantic difference, but there is a significant enough difference because of the strikeouts.

 

It's quibbling but I think Wilson is more of a TOR 1/2 type than a 2/3 type. This is assuming the team doesn't have the all powerful "true ace," which most team's don't. He's the Rangers ace right now, and was their 2 last year only after Lee was acquired. His big peripheral improvements plus my amateur eye show a pitcher who's taken to the SP role extremely well.

 

my concern is that he still walks a heck of a lot of people and his BABIP will rise considerably with a move to the cubs. Those two factors suggest that, all things being equal, he wont be as good here as with the Rangers. But then again he could move to the NL and just completely dominate.

 

What I like is that he went a walk BB down and a full K up in his peripherals. His BABIP is actually .030+ higher than what it was last year, and he's pitching better. I'm more in the "he moves to the NL and dominates" camp...or close to dominates since that's a little over the top.

[17 Seconds]

The fact that they didn't trade Pena makes me believe that they are going to try and keep him next season because they aren't going to go after Pujols or Fielder.

[Little Slide Rooter]

One big problem is is that it isn't often that these true elite players like Fielder or Pujols hit the market, so when these massive contracts have been handed out in recent years, it has been with bad results. Soriano, Zambrano, Wells, Rios, Zito, Rowand, and Peavy are some examples that come to mind, and Werth and Dunn look like they're on their way. Their are also a good number of big contract guys like Holliday, A Rod, Sabbathia, Miggy, who have turned out well for their teams too, but their have been a significant number of big contracts gone bad in recent years, so teams could be getting very gun shy. This being said, when you have the chance to sign one of the elite players in the game, and not just a big name in a bad market, you need to take it, especially when you are in the situation the Cubs are in.

[erik316wttn]

One big problem is is that it isn't often that these true elite players like Fielder or Pujols hit the market, so when these massive contracts have been handed out in recent years, it has been with bad results. Soriano, Zambrano, Wells, Rios, Zito, Rowand, and Peavy are some examples that come to mind, and Werth and Dunn look like they're on their way. Their are also a good number of big contract guys like Holliday, A Rod, Sabbathia, Miggy, who have turned out well for their teams too, but their have been a significant number of big contracts gone bad in recent years, so teams could be getting very gun shy. This being said, when you have the chance to sign one of the elite players in the game, and not just a big name in a bad market, you need to take it, especially when you are in the situation the Cubs are in.

 

But all of the players you mentioned who have "bad" contracts are not anywhere on the level of a Pujols or Fielder.

[C.C.]

One big problem is is that it isn't often that these true elite players like Fielder or Pujols hit the market, so when these massive contracts have been handed out in recent years, it has been with bad results. Soriano, Zambrano, Wells, Rios, Zito, Rowand, and Peavy are some examples that come to mind, and Werth and Dunn look like they're on their way. Their are also a good number of big contract guys like Holliday, A Rod, Sabbathia, Miggy, who have turned out well for their teams too, but their have been a significant number of big contracts gone bad in recent years, so teams could be getting very gun shy. This being said, when you have the chance to sign one of the elite players in the game, and not just a big name in a bad market, you need to take it, especially when you are in the situation the Cubs are in.

 

But all of the players you mentioned who have "bad" contracts are not anywhere on the level of a Pujols or Fielder.

 

Getting the feeling that Henrdry and Quade are returning next year.

[erik316wttn]

One big problem is is that it isn't often that these true elite players like Fielder or Pujols hit the market, so when these massive contracts have been handed out in recent years, it has been with bad results. Soriano, Zambrano, Wells, Rios, Zito, Rowand, and Peavy are some examples that come to mind, and Werth and Dunn look like they're on their way. Their are also a good number of big contract guys like Holliday, A Rod, Sabbathia, Miggy, who have turned out well for their teams too, but their have been a significant number of big contracts gone bad in recent years, so teams could be getting very gun shy. This being said, when you have the chance to sign one of the elite players in the game, and not just a big name in a bad market, you need to take it, especially when you are in the situation the Cubs are in.

 

But all of the players you mentioned who have "bad" contracts are not anywhere on the level of a Pujols or Fielder.

 

Getting the feeling that Henrdry and Quade are returning next year.

 

Hendry almost certainly. I wouldn't be shocked if Quade was retained, however.

[UMFan83]

The fact that they didn't trade Pena makes me believe that they are going to try and keep him next season because they aren't going to go after Pujols or Fielder.

 

That was definitely my concern too. It's not really difficult to imagine the Cubs doing that.

[erik316wttn]

The fact that they didn't trade Pena makes me believe that they are going to try and keep him next season because they aren't going to go after Pujols or Fielder.

 

That was definitely my concern too. It's not really difficult to imagine the Cubs doing that.

 

It certainly would be the very "Cub-like" thing to do.

 

I just wonder if Ricketts is going to openly wonder why attendance is down in the coming years.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The fact that they didn't trade Pena makes me believe that they are going to try and keep him next season because they aren't going to go after Pujols or Fielder.

 

That was definitely my concern too. It's not really difficult to imagine the Cubs doing that.

 

It certainly would be the very "Cub-like" thing to do.

 

I just wonder if Ricketts is going to openly wonder why attendance is down in the coming years.

 

I still have faith that they'll do what needs to be done this offseason, but if not, it's a good thing that we're signing a lot of great draft picks, or there could not be a lot else for us to follow for the next few years.

[Banedon]

It can't be healthy to actively dislike my favorite baseball team as much as I have in the past year or two.

[Little Slide Rooter]

It can't be healthy to actively dislike my favorite baseball team as much as I have in the past year or two.

 

I'm waiting for someone to make the obligatory then stop watching post, which will lead to the if we could, we would discussion that seems to come up every few months for the past few years. It really is difficult to just stop watching. Kind of like an addiction or a no good family member that you can't turn away from no matter how badly they ruin their lives and those around them.

[erik316wttn]

It can't be healthy to actively dislike my favorite baseball team as much as I have in the past year or two.

 

I'm with you. If this offseason is "same old Cubs" I'm seriously considering jumping ship. I don't know how much more of this [expletive] I can take.

[Little Slide Rooter]

•Prince Fielder is only 27 years old and ranks second in the NL with a .987 OPS. Power pays on the free agent market, and Fielder could be the second player in baseball history to receive a $200MM contract. However, if the Cubs don't get serious about the slugger, Boras will have to be creative in finding a few teams to create a bidding war.

 

Found this interesting from an MLBTR article that discusses Scott Boras clients. I didn't realise how much of a favorite the Cubs were to sign Fielder. Whatever these front office guys are saying, I really hope that Ricketts steps in and tells them it's what needs to be done as he did during the draft.

[Elwood]

•Prince Fielder is only 27 years old and ranks second in the NL with a .987 OPS. Power pays on the free agent market, and Fielder could be the second player in baseball history to receive a $200MM contract. However, if the Cubs don't get serious about the slugger, Boras will have to be creative in finding a few teams to create a bidding war.

 

Found this interesting from an MLBTR article that discusses Scott Boras clients. I didn't realise how much of a favorite the Cubs were to sign Fielder. Whatever these front office guys are saying, I really hope that Ricketts steps in and tells them it's what needs to be done as he did during the draft.

 

What teams are actually in a position to offer that kind of money for Fielder? The Red Sox and Yankees aren't going to pay that much for a DH. Who does that leave besides the Cubs?

 

EDIT: I looked around a bit. It sounds like the Blue Jays and Orioles are expected to make a run at Fielder. I couldn't find much else.

Edited August 15, 2011 by Elwood

[KingCubsFan]

•Prince Fielder is only 27 years old and ranks second in the NL with a .987 OPS. Power pays on the free agent market, and Fielder could be the second player in baseball history to receive a $200MM contract. However, if the Cubs don't get serious about the slugger, Boras will have to be creative in finding a few teams to create a bidding war.

 

Found this interesting from an MLBTR article that discusses Scott Boras clients. I didn't realise how much of a favorite the Cubs were to sign Fielder. Whatever these front office guys are saying, I really hope that Ricketts steps in and tells them it's what needs to be done as he did during the draft.

Ricketts seems pretty hands-off in terms of the actual team. He didn't dictate what to do at the draft, it seems like he basically sat there and encouraged Wilken to take whoever he thought was the best player, money aside. I'm sure he does the same thing with Hendry. The problem is that Hendry may think it's better to spread it around and overpay for a bunch of mediocre veterans. Since it seems like Hendry will be back, this offseason should be entertaining. It will either be awesome (Pujols/Fielder) or comically bad (a bunch of Edwin Jacksons and guys that play with heart).

[J.R.]

no, not good.

 

The front office may actually be playing this right.

 

After John McDonough's statements at the end of the 2006 season, everyone knew the Cubs HAD to pour buckets of money into a name free agent or two.

 

Now, everyone assumes they will spend big again. Leaks like this (as well as the early season Wrigley discussions) imply that ownership is getting thrifty, thereby lowering expectations and strengthening Hendry's hand at the table this winter.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

no, not good.

 

The front office may actually be playing this right.

 

After John McDonough's statements at the end of the 2006 season, everyone knew the Cubs HAD to pour buckets of money into a name free agent or two.

 

Now, everyone assumes they will spend big again. Leaks like this (as well as the early season Wrigley discussions) imply that ownership is getting thrifty, thereby lowering expectations and strengthening Hendry's hand at the table this winter.

 

I hope you are right. I fear you have them playing a good game of checkers when in reality they are having trouble coloring inside the lines.

[Sammy Sofa]

Well, now I'm torn as to what I want, what with all the promises of people no longer following the Cubs.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Well, now I'm torn as to what I want, what with all the promises of people no longer following the Cubs.

 

I promise to post even more if they sign either of them.

[Sammy Sofa]

Yeah, but nobody cares about you.

[J.R.]

I hope you are right. I fear you have them playing a good game of checkers when in reality they are having trouble coloring inside the lines.

 

Just trying to be fair-minded about this.

 

The organization has been horrendous when it comes to shaping perception and playing public opinion in its favor. I am willing to believe that a lesson or two have been learned.