Front Office Concerned About Spending Big $ on One Player

[Sammy Sofa]

And Oleny reports on meaningless rumors all the time, and this smacks of nothing more than innuendo and scratching for any kind of a story. Sure, it COULD be true, but there's not much to it.

[TruffleShuffle]

LOL? Buster Olney doesn't know anything? Really? That's like saying Adam Schefter doesn't have any NFL credibility. C'mon man. I know it's Twitter. But that doesn't change the fact that Buster Olney is arguably the most knowledgeable baseball source out there.

 

since you're buddy-buddy with him maybe you could ask him how john gibbons is doing as manager of the pirates this year.

[MrCub14]

LOL? Buster Olney doesn't know anything? Really? That's like saying Adam Schefter doesn't have any NFL credibility. C'mon man. I know it's Twitter. But that doesn't change the fact that Buster Olney is arguably the most knowledgeable baseball source out there.

 

since you're buddy-buddy with him maybe you could ask him how john gibbons is doing as manager of the pirates this year.

 

Never said we were buddy buddy lol. Just stating that he is more plugged in than anyone. Anyone can be fed bad information. He is right 99.9% of the time. Not to mention that the other big name reporters are shaky at best.

[Sammy Sofa]

99.9%? No.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

And Oleny reports on meaningless rumors all the time, and this smacks of nothing more than innuendo and scratching for any kind of a story. Sure, it COULD be true, but there's not much to it.

 

Part of the piling on process. Superficially paint one image in the papers as another is being created in reality...Personally I see something big coming, one way or another.

[Elwood]

Yeah, Carlos Zambrano had another tantrum, so they should just spread the wealth amongst a bunch of guys like Jorge Cantu, Wilson Betemit, Edwin Jackson, and Jason Frasor.

 

I would love to fill the hole at 1B with Fielder or Pujols as long as we can do it without signing either of them for 6+ years, but I don't know if that's very realistic.

 

I was perusing a list of 2012 free agents, and saw some interesting names besides the turds you listed.

 

I would welcome guys like Jason Kubel and Michael Cuddyer as cheaper offensive options assuming the Colvin experiment doesn't work out.

 

I've seen a lot of talk about C.J. Wilson on here. He's a great pitcher, but since he's one of the bigger names available, he's going to get paid. Paul Maholm's overall numbers actually compare pretty similarly to Wilson's (minus the strikeouts) and I would assume he could be had much cheaper. Although, I would expect Wilson's numbers to improve with a move to the NL.

 

I guess I'm just saying I don't think it's an absolute necessity to sign the sexy names this offseason in order to improve the team. It seems perfectly reasonable to me for the FO to have concerns about sinking big bucks into one player.

 

Basically, the Olney tweet is pretty damn obvious.

 

By the way, here's the list I was using. http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2001/04/potential-free-agents-for-2012.html

 

If it's incorrect, or if I'm missing something, I apologize.

 

To me, keeping Ramirez around for next season should be the top priority. 3B will be a [expletive]-show otherwise.

[WilcoFan]

I would like this to be a team that can afford to sign a player they know will not be worth the money he makes in the last two years of his contract, because the players they develop are good enough and cheap enough to fill the gap.

[Sammy Sofa]

Not spending money just to not spend it doesn't make any sense. If it's there and there are guys who fit glaring holes on this team by being REALLY [expletive] GOOD AT BASEBALL you spend the money on them. This isn't a Soriano situation at all.

[TruffleShuffle]

I've seen a lot of talk about C.J. Wilson on here. He's a great pitcher, but since he's one of the bigger names available, he's going to get paid. Paul Maholm's overall numbers actually compare pretty similarly to Wilson's (minus the strikeouts) and I would assume he could be had much cheaper. Although, I would expect Wilson's numbers to improve with a move to the NL.

 

by numbers i assume you mean ERA and WHIP, and only this season?

 

maholm pitches half his games in a pitcher's park; wilson pitches his home games in one of the best hitter's parks in baseball. maholm was bad last year (ERA over 5); wilson was good.

 

maholm isn't bad but he's nothing more than a #3/4 at best. let's not pretend that you're going to get roughly equivalent production whether you sign him or wilson.

[TruffleShuffle]

I would like this to be a team that can afford to sign a player they know will not be worth the money he makes in the last two years of his contract, because the players they develop are good enough and cheap enough to fill the gap.

 

there's no reason the cubs can't be that, provided that they commit to spending money on amateur talent (as well as signing good scouts to find that talent and good coaches to develop it once it's in the system).

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

I've seen a lot of talk about C.J. Wilson on here. He's a great pitcher, but since he's one of the bigger names available, he's going to get paid. Paul Maholm's overall numbers actually compare pretty similarly to Wilson's (minus the strikeouts) and I would assume he could be had much cheaper. Although, I would expect Wilson's numbers to improve with a move to the NL.

 

by numbers i assume you mean ERA and WHIP, and only this season?

 

maholm pitches half his games in a pitcher's park; wilson pitches his home games in one of the best hitter's parks in baseball. maholm was bad last year (ERA over 5); wilson was good.

 

maholm isn't bad but he's nothing more than a #3/4 at best. let's not pretend that you're going to get roughly equivalent production whether you sign him or wilson.

 

Plus K's are a pretty big deal when it comes to looking for strong TOR type SP...I actually consider Maholm more of a 4-5 on a very good team.

 

CJ Wilson = stud. I would like to sign him as much as either of the 1B.

 

I would like this to be a team that can afford to sign a player they know will not be worth the money he makes in the last two years of his contract, because the players they develop are good enough and cheap enough to fill the gap.

 

I think that's precisely the direction they're thinking of going.

[Guest]

And for me the jury is still out on the Ricketts. As frustrating as "reports" like this are, they're mostly bull [expletive]. This year has sucked and Hendry should have been fired after last year, but this year's draft has gone a LONG way to living up (as much as one can in the short run) to what they were talking about when it came to building internally, as well as their investment in international player development. This offseason is going to be a big test, no doubt, but I'm not willing to write them off yet.

 

yeah, weren't people bitching after last year's draft and every time we didn't sign an expensive international free agent that ricketts' talk about investing in the farm system was just lip service? well, the cubs are going to be one of the top spenders in the draft this year and signed a bunch of cubans (who don't appear to be any good, mind you) and i believe spent 7 figures on a pair of players from the dominican and venezuela. so maybe we shouldn't flip out and start whining every time someone who may not know anything sends out a tweet.

 

Your belief is correct. And the Cubs have never spent more than a million on a Latin American free agent before Silva last season and Malave/Acosta this season.

[Elwood]

I've seen a lot of talk about C.J. Wilson on here. He's a great pitcher, but since he's one of the bigger names available, he's going to get paid. Paul Maholm's overall numbers actually compare pretty similarly to Wilson's (minus the strikeouts) and I would assume he could be had much cheaper. Although, I would expect Wilson's numbers to improve with a move to the NL.

 

by numbers i assume you mean ERA and WHIP, and only this season?

 

maholm pitches half his games in a pitcher's park; wilson pitches his home games in one of the best hitter's parks in baseball. maholm was bad last year (ERA over 5); wilson was good.

 

maholm isn't bad but he's nothing more than a #3/4 at best. let's not pretend that you're going to get roughly equivalent production whether you sign him or wilson.

 

Basically. I was looking at WHIP, ERA, and Quality starts (need to step up my sabermetrics). Good points about the home parks. Do you think Wilson would be a #1? Obviously, he is the better pitcher. I just don't think you want to overpay for him.

[Sammy Sofa]

You don't want to overpay for anyone. You have to overpay for any impact FA that you didn't develop in your own system. Given the Cubs starting pitching needs and Wilson's ability and where he's been pitching and the lack of mileage on his arm, yeah, I'd say he's one of those guys you need to overpay for.

[CyHawk_Cub]

But, but why pay all that money for a single player (Pujols or Fielder) when that same money can get you 15 to 20 John Grabows & Koyie Hills?

 

Seriously, the idea of outright rejecting a big ticket contract is ludicrous. At least those are moves w/ real impact. Unless one views the middling-money contracts that Hendry has pissed away over the years as an acceptable way to waste money, that is.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I wonder how different recent Cubs history would be if the post-2006 FA market hadn't sucked so hard in terms of top-end talent.

[Elwood]

Right or wrong, I haven't thought of Wilson as an elite pitcher up to this point. Especially when compared to 2013 options like Greinke, Hamels, Cain and Weaver.

 

Although, I guess there's no reason why we can't go for one of these guys too once Z's money is freed up.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Right or wrong, I haven't thought of Wilson as an elite pitcher up to this point. Especially when compared to 2013 options like Greinke, Hamels, Cain and Weaver.

 

Although, I guess there's no reason why we can't go for one of these guys too once Z's money is freed up.

 

Exactly.

 

Also, Wilson isn't thought of as elite because he's 30 and it's only year 2 as a SP. I wouldn't believe it either until last postseason opened up my eyes. He's another bulldog type on the mound.

 

Cole Hamels 2013. It's not going to happen, but for now....

[TruffleShuffle]

But, but why pay all that money for a single player (Pujols or Fielder) when that same money can get you 15 to 20 John Grabows & Koyie Hills?

 

Seriously, the idea of outright rejecting a big ticket contract is ludicrous. At least those are moves w/ real impact. Unless one views the middling-money contracts that Hendry has pissed away over the years as an acceptable way to waste money, that is.

 

yeah. look, a GM can feel good about himself if he goes out and gets a marlon byrd or mark derosa and they play above the level of their contracts, but you're really not going to contend for a title with a bunch of 2 and 3 win players at every position. you do need a few guys like that, but you also need a true star. if you look at every team that's likely to make the playoffs this year, only one (braves) isn't going to have a player worth around 6 wins or more, and the braves are winning because they have crazy pitching depth.

 

we have money to spend, a gaping hole at 1b, no decent solution in the minors, and two of the best 1b in the game are free agents after this season. big-market teams shouldn't be going after a michael cuddyer to fill that spot because they're afraid that albert pujols won't be ops'ing near 1.000 when he's 38.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

But, but why pay all that money for a single player (Pujols or Fielder) when that same money can get you 15 to 20 John Grabows & Koyie Hills?

 

Seriously, the idea of outright rejecting a big ticket contract is ludicrous. At least those are moves w/ real impact. Unless one views the middling-money contracts that Hendry has pissed away over the years as an acceptable way to waste money, that is.

 

yeah. look, a GM can feel good about himself if he goes out and gets a marlon byrd or mark derosa and they play above the level of their contracts, but you're really not going to contend for a title with a bunch of 2 and 3 win players at every position. you do need a few guys like that, but you also need a true star. if you look at every team that's likely to make the playoffs this year, only one (braves) isn't going to have a player worth around 6 wins or more, and the braves are winning because they have crazy pitching depth.

 

we have money to spend, a gaping hole at 1b, no decent solution in the minors, and two of the best 1b in the game are free agents after this season. big-market teams shouldn't be going after a michael cuddyer to fill that spot because they're afraid that albert pujols won't be ops'ing near 1.000 when he's 38.

 

Candidates in this FA period to be that Derosa/Byrd/someone type:

 

Aaron Hill

Omar Infante

Michael Cuddyer

Conor Jackson

Grady Sizemore

[Elwood]

we have money to spend, a gaping hole at 1b, no decent solution in the minors, and two of the best 1b in the game are free agents after this season. big-market teams shouldn't be going after a michael cuddyer to fill that spot because they're afraid that albert pujols won't be ops'ing near 1.000 when he's 38.

 

He isn't OPS'ing close to 1.000 this year.

[toonsterwu]

I sure as [expletive] have a problem with that.

 

Prince is young and is going to be productive for years even if the fat catches up to him down the line. And next season doesn't have to be over .500 for it to be a huge step in the right direction. Passing on Fielder or Pujols because they're not likely to win more than 85 games next year is beyond stupid.

 

I tend to view it slightly different than that. If they pass on them because they feel that there is a chance that Fielder's contract will be an albatross and that he will be on his decline by the time their next core is ready (and let's be realistic, we really don't have a chance of having a next core in place until, say, 2013 at earliest, and perhaps even later than that, doesn't mean we can't have good seasons or luck our way into a situation, but speaking specifically of a core to build around), then I don't have a problem if they pass on it.

 

Now, if they pass on making a deal because they are gun-shy or being budget oriented, then I have a problem. That said, Ricketts kept payroll somewhat similar while increasing our draft/international budget.

 

Don't get me wrong, overall, I'm for adding Fielder (with limitations). I'm just not against it if they feel that the next core won't be ready for a few years and the contract isn't worth it

.

All this leaves behind a simple thing that hasn't been discussed in the optimistic hopes for a big addition. Would Fielder (or Pujols, but I've never believed he'd leave) come to an organization without some additional significant moves made in the offseason? Even then, we need roughly three big moves (SP, 2 big bats) to look intriguing on paper, and there are organizations that have money to spend that are in a similar boat. It's hard to imagine that, say, Fielder, would want to come unless these moves are made beforehand. Are we prepared to make long term financial commitments that may simply lead to a similar dynamic that we are going through now and/or strip away the rebuilding farm system (and there's very limited capabilities to make a big trade this offseason, maybe 1 big trade at best)?

[toonsterwu]

Yeah, Carlos Zambrano had another tantrum, so they should just spread the wealth amongst a bunch of guys like Jorge Cantu, Wilson Betemit, Edwin Jackson, and Jason Frasor.

 

I would love to fill the hole at 1B with Fielder or Pujols as long as we can do it without signing either of them for 6+ years, but I don't know if that's very realistic.

 

I was perusing a list of 2012 free agents, and saw some interesting names besides the turds you listed.

 

I would welcome guys like Jason Kubel and Michael Cuddyer as cheaper offensive options assuming the Colvin experiment doesn't work out.

 

I've seen a lot of talk about C.J. Wilson on here. He's a great pitcher, but since he's one of the bigger names available, he's going to get paid. Paul Maholm's overall numbers actually compare pretty similarly to Wilson's (minus the strikeouts) and I would assume he could be had much cheaper. Although, I would expect Wilson's numbers to improve with a move to the NL.

 

I guess I'm just saying I don't think it's an absolute necessity to sign the sexy names this offseason in order to improve the team. It seems perfectly reasonable to me for the FO to have concerns about sinking big bucks into one player.

 

Basically, the Olney tweet is pretty damn obvious.

 

By the way, here's the list I was using. http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2001/04/potential-free-agents-for-2012.html

 

If it's incorrect, or if I'm missing something, I apologize.

 

To me, keeping Ramirez around for next season should be the top priority. 3B will be a [expletive] otherwise.

 

I like Maholm enough. I think the Pirates will likely keep him. That said ... the strikeouts are gigantic factor. I just found it interesting that you would say they are similar minus the strikeouts. CJ's ability to get people to whiff is why folks consider him a solid mid-rotation starter, a 2, 2/3 type of guy. Maholm's more of a 4th starter type on a good squad, maybe a 3rd starter. It's not a gigantic difference, but there is a significant enough difference because of the strikeouts.

[TruffleShuffle]

we have money to spend, a gaping hole at 1b, no decent solution in the minors, and two of the best 1b in the game are free agents after this season. big-market teams shouldn't be going after a michael cuddyer to fill that spot because they're afraid that albert pujols won't be ops'ing near 1.000 when he's 38.

 

He isn't OPS'ing close to 1.000 this year.

 

meh, run environment is down this year and he's having a down year. he's "only" 10th in OPS+ this year after ranking 1st 4 times, 2nd 3 times and 3rd 1 time in the last 8 years. his BABIP is .257. i'm not going to start wringing my hands too much about it.

 

to me, the most worrisome part about his game this year is that his walk rate is way lower than it was the past several years. i'm not sure if that's because he's pressing or what.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Yeah, Carlos Zambrano had another tantrum, so they should just spread the wealth amongst a bunch of guys like Jorge Cantu, Wilson Betemit, Edwin Jackson, and Jason Frasor.

 

I would love to fill the hole at 1B with Fielder or Pujols as long as we can do it without signing either of them for 6+ years, but I don't know if that's very realistic.

 

I was perusing a list of 2012 free agents, and saw some interesting names besides the turds you listed.

 

I would welcome guys like Jason Kubel and Michael Cuddyer as cheaper offensive options assuming the Colvin experiment doesn't work out.

 

I've seen a lot of talk about C.J. Wilson on here. He's a great pitcher, but since he's one of the bigger names available, he's going to get paid. Paul Maholm's overall numbers actually compare pretty similarly to Wilson's (minus the strikeouts) and I would assume he could be had much cheaper. Although, I would expect Wilson's numbers to improve with a move to the NL.

 

I guess I'm just saying I don't think it's an absolute necessity to sign the sexy names this offseason in order to improve the team. It seems perfectly reasonable to me for the FO to have concerns about sinking big bucks into one player.

 

Basically, the Olney tweet is pretty damn obvious.

 

By the way, here's the list I was using. http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2001/04/potential-free-agents-for-2012.html

 

If it's incorrect, or if I'm missing something, I apologize.

 

To me, keeping Ramirez around for next season should be the top priority. 3B will be a [expletive] otherwise.

 

I like Maholm enough. I think the Pirates will likely keep him. That said ... the strikeouts are gigantic factor. I just found it interesting that you would say they are similar minus the strikeouts. CJ's ability to get people to whiff is why folks consider him a solid mid-rotation starter, a 2, 2/3 type of guy. Maholm's more of a 4th starter type on a good squad, maybe a 3rd starter. It's not a gigantic difference, but there is a significant enough difference because of the strikeouts.

 

It's quibbling but I think Wilson is more of a TOR 1/2 type than a 2/3 type. This is assuming the team doesn't have the all powerful "true ace," which most team's don't. He's the Rangers ace right now, and was their 2 last year only after Lee was acquired. His big peripheral improvements plus my amateur eye show a pitcher who's taken to the SP role extremely well.