Furcal to Cardinals

[erik316wttn]

CBSsports.com is saying the Dodgers and Cardinals are "close" on a deal to send Furcal to St. Louis.

 

http://scott-miller.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270335/30991383

[XZero771679666304]

He would fill a hole and he likes to drink and drive. A perfect fit.

[d_money]

In general, watching rival teams get better with the goal of winning a WS in the present is really starting to rub me the wrong way. The Cubs are not in position to grant any current players' wish to stay with the organization (NTC aside) if it means we can get better a year or 2 from now. The lack of any plan or direction of this organization is wearing extremely thin.

[XZero771679666304]

In general, watching rival teams get better with the goal of winning a WS in the present is really starting to rub me the wrong way. The Cubs are not in position to grant any current players' wish to stay with the organization (NTC aside) if it means we can get better a year or 2 from now. The lack of any plan or direction of this organization is wearing extremely thin.

 

The team can't move Z or Soriano, and there's no reason to move Ramirez unless the offer is really, really good.

 

And I don't mind seeing the Cards and Crew giving up their long term assets for moderate, very short term gains. Meanwhile, Ricketts is pouring money into the amateur side, which is a new, very positive direction.

 

This offseason will be the first since the new ownership took over in which there will be substantial money to be spent. I'll wait until well into the offseason before I cast any aspersions about the direction of the team.

[d_money]

In general, watching rival teams get better with the goal of winning a WS in the present is really starting to rub me the wrong way. The Cubs are not in position to grant any current players' wish to stay with the organization (NTC aside) if it means we can get better a year or 2 from now. The lack of any plan or direction of this organization is wearing extremely thin.

 

The team can't move Z or Soriano, and there's no reason to move Ramirez unless the offer is really, really good.

 

And I don't mind seeing the Cards and Crew giving up their long term assets for moderate, very short term gains. Meanwhile, Ricketts is pouring money into the amateur side, which is a new, very positive direction.

 

This offseason will be the first since the new ownership took over in which there will be substantial money to be spent. I'll wait until well into the offseason before I cast any aspersions about the direction of the team.

 

I agree re: the amateur side. But how can a guy like Jeff Baker be "untouchable"? Come on. He's a role player. Same thing for DeWitt. If we're not picking up Ramirez contract option next year - we better sign him to a 3 year deal worth approx. $25M - if he wants to be here so badly.

[Irrelevant Dude]

The lack of any plan or direction of this organization is wearing extremely thin.

This organization's "plan" seems to be to assemble a patchwork roster each season with false optimism that they will compete for a title. Now that this year is shot, they shift their plan to a futile attempt to win next year. They are never willing to sacrifice the present for a better chance of winning in the future.

 

Now I am all for the win now philosophy if it is a realistic goal, but this Cubs team just doesn't have the core to do that. Even if they were to go out and sign Pujols or Fielder, there are still too many holes. This half-assed rebuilding (and hoping to win at the same time) mode isn't getting us anywhere.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The lack of any plan or direction of this organization is wearing extremely thin.

This organization's "plan" seems to be to assemble a patchwork roster each season with false optimism that they will compete for a title. Now that this year is shot, they shift their plan to a futile attempt to win next year. They are never willing to sacrifice the present for a better chance of winning in the future.

 

Now I am all for the win now philosophy if it is a realistic goal, but this Cubs team just doesn't have the core to do that. Even if they were to go out and sign Pujols or Fielder, there are still too many holes. This half-assed rebuilding (and hoping to win at the same time) mode isn't getting us anywhere.

 

Really? So you don't think that adding a big time middle of the order bat and front of the rotation pitcher would make this team a winner? Then you totally wasting your time even following this team, because add those pieces, and they should own the division.

[JimSorgi]

In general, watching rival teams get better with the goal of winning a WS in the present is really starting to rub me the wrong way. The Cubs are not in position to grant any current players' wish to stay with the organization (NTC aside) if it means we can get better a year or 2 from now. The lack of any plan or direction of this organization is wearing extremely thin.

 

The team can't move Z or Soriano, and there's no reason to move Ramirez unless the offer is really, really good.

 

And I don't mind seeing the Cards and Crew giving up their long term assets for moderate, very short term gains. Meanwhile, Ricketts is pouring money into the amateur side, which is a new, very positive direction.

 

This offseason will be the first since the new ownership took over in which there will be substantial money to be spent. I'll wait until well into the offseason before I cast any aspersions about the direction of the team.

 

I agree re: the amateur side. But how can a guy like Jeff Baker be "untouchable"? Come on. He's a role player. Same thing for DeWitt.

What exactly do you think we could get for these guys?

[XZero771679666304]

The lack of any plan or direction of this organization is wearing extremely thin.

This organization's "plan" seems to be to assemble a patchwork roster each season with false optimism that they will compete for a title. Now that this year is shot, they shift their plan to a futile attempt to win next year. They are never willing to sacrifice the present for a better chance of winning in the future.

 

Now I am all for the win now philosophy if it is a realistic goal, but this Cubs team just doesn't have the core to do that. Even if they were to go out and sign Pujols or Fielder, there are still too many holes. This half-assed rebuilding (and hoping to win at the same time) mode isn't getting us anywhere.

 

 

There is no reason to blow the team up and rebuild. Big market teams don't have to do that. Sign Fielder/Pujols and a SP like Wilson and probably compete in 2012. More money comes off after 2012, use that money to improve more. By 2013/2014, the talent we're bringing in now and that is in the low minors should be cropping up on the big league team.

 

And really there aren't that many holes when you consider we have a pretty good group of young role players. Castro, Soto, Barney, etc. are all average or better. Byrd is good and cheap, and Jackson looks to follow him. The only things this team really needs is a centerpiece player and a front of the rotation pitcher, both of which could be picked up this offseason (and neither is going to come from our farm anytime soon).

 

This notion that the team has to settle for being bad for a couple years to progress long term is small market nonsense. The team is in a position where most of the positions can be manned by good, young, cost controlled players. You couldn't say that for almost all of the last decade, where all the holes had to be filled via FA. Now the Cubs have the money to acquire the pieces they need, and those pieces are going to be available.

 

You can't say it hasn't worked because this is really the first time the team has been in the position of having only a couple big holes and a ton of money to fill them.

[Irrelevant Dude]

The lack of any plan or direction of this organization is wearing extremely thin.

This organization's "plan" seems to be to assemble a patchwork roster each season with false optimism that they will compete for a title. Now that this year is shot, they shift their plan to a futile attempt to win next year. They are never willing to sacrifice the present for a better chance of winning in the future.

 

Now I am all for the win now philosophy if it is a realistic goal, but this Cubs team just doesn't have the core to do that. Even if they were to go out and sign Pujols or Fielder, there are still too many holes. This half-assed rebuilding (and hoping to win at the same time) mode isn't getting us anywhere.

 

Really? So you don't think that adding a big time middle of the order bat and front of the rotation pitcher would make this team a winner? Then you totally wasting your time even following this team, because add those pieces, and they should own the division.

I didn't say anything about a front of the rotation starter because I don't think it is realistic to expect the Cubs to sign one of Pujols or Fielder and give a huge contract to a pitcher in the same offseason. And I would have to assume that Aramis would definitely be gone in that case, so it isn't exactly like the Cubs would be adding Pujols/Fielder into their existing lineup. They would be losing their best hitter and replacing him with a better best hitter, so it would only be an incremental gain.

[dew1679666265]

I didn't say anything about a front of the rotation starter because I don't think it is realistic to expect the Cubs to sign one of Pujols or Fielder and give a huge contract to a pitcher in the same offseason.

 

Why not? We have the money under the budget for 1 of Fielder/Pujols and then CJ Wilson, so it'd have to be that the Yankees or somebody swooped in and gave outrageous money or simply because you don't believe the Cubs would pursue filling both holes.

 

And I would have to assume that Aramis would definitely be gone in that case, so it isn't exactly like the Cubs would be adding Pujols/Fielder into their existing lineup. They would be losing their best hitter and replacing him with a better best hitter, so it would only be an incremental gain.

 

We would have to let Aramis go in that scenario, but we're very equipped to fill third base with league average or better production. A platoon of Flaherty/Baker wouldn't give us Aramis level production, but they'd likely be above average offensively at third base.

 

The improvements would be Fielder over Pena (significant) and Wilson over the current 5th starter quagmire (very, very significant) and then the downgrade from Aramis to a Flaherty/Baker platoon (hard to tell for sure, would be dependent on how well Flaherty adjusted to hitting ML pitching).

[Clem Fandango]

Oh Jesus Christ now he's going to hit like 7.000 with an OBP of like A BILLION!!!!!

[Tarver]

I didn't say anything about a front of the rotation starter because I don't think it is realistic to expect the Cubs to sign one of Pujols or Fielder and give a huge contract to a pitcher in the same offseason.

 

Why not? We have the money under the budget for 1 of Fielder/Pujols and then CJ Wilson, so it'd have to be that the Yankees or somebody swooped in and gave outrageous money or simply because you don't believe the Cubs would pursue filling both holes.

 

And I would have to assume that Aramis would definitely be gone in that case, so it isn't exactly like the Cubs would be adding Pujols/Fielder into their existing lineup. They would be losing their best hitter and replacing him with a better best hitter, so it would only be an incremental gain.

 

We would have to let Aramis go in that scenario, but we're very equipped to fill third base with league average or better production. A platoon of Flaherty/Baker wouldn't give us Aramis level production, but they'd likely be above average offensively at third base.

 

The improvements would be Fielder over Pena (significant) and Wilson over the current 5th starter quagmire (very, very significant) and then the downgrade from Aramis to a Flaherty/Baker platoon (hard to tell for sure, would be dependent on how well Flaherty adjusted to hitting ML pitching).

 

You can't really believe that.

 

If Ramirez walks, they'll have to add another bat somewhere. This lineup:

 

Castro

Barney

Fielder

Soto

Byrd

Soriano

Baker/whomever

 

Isn't contending for [expletive].

[TruffleShuffle]

I agree re: the amateur side. But how can a guy like Jeff Baker be "untouchable"? Come on. He's a role player. Same thing for DeWitt. If we're not picking up Ramirez contract option next year - we better sign him to a 3 year deal worth approx. $25M - if he wants to be here so badly.

 

is this a joke?

[dew1679666265]

You can't really believe that.

 

If Ramirez walks, they'll have to add another bat somewhere. This lineup:

 

Castro

Barney

Fielder

Soto

Byrd

Soriano

Baker/whomever

 

Isn't contending for [expletive].

 

They definitely won't contend for anything if they don't field a right fielder. :D

 

Seriously, I think they can with that lineup. When you take into account a potentially very good rotation of Garza/Wilson/Dempster/Z/Wells, you don't need a dominant offense to compete. I'd definitely give LaMaheieu a shot at 2nd over Barney to get a little more offense in, though. It's nitpicking but I'd also bat Soto at the top of the lineup instead of Barney/LaMaheieu.

 

In that scenario I'm banking on Flaherty being fairly productive facing only right handers and I'm hoping that defensive improvements make the pitching that much better. It's not a surefire contention strategy, but the Central is likely to be somewhere between really bad and horrid next year. It won't take a lot to hang in there.

[JimSorgi]

I agree re: the amateur side. But how can a guy like Jeff Baker be "untouchable"? Come on. He's a role player. Same thing for DeWitt. If we're not picking up Ramirez contract option next year - we better sign him to a 3 year deal worth approx. $25M - if he wants to be here so badly.

 

is this a joke?

Let's give him 3 year/$10 million and say deal with it, buddy. He wants to stay with the Cubs, so obviously he isn't allowed to say no.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I wonder how good the Dodgers could have been had they spend their money more wisely than Rafael Furcal, Jason Schmidt, Andruw Jones, and Juan Pierre. If seems that the main difference between the Cubs and Dodgers is that we didnt produce guys like Kemp, Kershaw, and Billingsy or aquire a young Andre Ethier.

[erik316wttn]

I wonder how good the Dodgers could have been had they spend their money more wisely than Rafael Furcal, Jason Schmidt, Andruw Jones, and Juan Pierre. If seems that the main difference between the Cubs and Dodgers is that we didnt produce guys like Kemp, Kershaw, and Billingsy or aquire a young Andre Ethier.

 

Funny what a good organizational philosophy will do.

[questionmarkgrace]

You can't really believe that.

 

If Ramirez walks, they'll have to add another bat somewhere. This lineup:

 

Castro

Barney

Fielder

Soto

Byrd

Soriano

Baker/whomever

 

Isn't contending for [expletive].

 

They definitely won't contend for anything if they don't field a right fielder. :D

 

Seriously, I think they can with that lineup. When you take into account a potentially very good rotation of Garza/Wilson/Dempster/Z/Wells, you don't need a dominant offense to compete. I'd definitely give LaMaheieu a shot at 2nd over Barney to get a little more offense in, though. It's nitpicking but I'd also bat Soto at the top of the lineup instead of Barney/LaMaheieu.

 

In that scenario I'm banking on Flaherty being fairly productive facing only right handers and I'm hoping that defensive improvements make the pitching that much better. It's not a surefire contention strategy, but the Central is likely to be somewhere between really bad and horrid next year. It won't take a lot to hang in there.

 

 

i don't think that line up is a contender at all. All it will amount to is a boat load of walks for fielder and a bunch of gidp's for soto and byrd. Plus our rotation is more than one solid starter away from being good. we need 2 at this point.

[dew1679666265]

i don't think that line up is a contender at all. All it will amount to is a boat load of walks for fielder and a bunch of gidp's for soto and byrd. Plus our rotation is more than one solid starter away from being good. we need 2 at this point.

 

If this year's Randy Wells is the Randy Wells we're getting from here on out, I agree we need a couple of starters. I don't think we can just assume that, though. And Wilson has been far better than a solid starter the past couple of years. He's one of the best pitchers in baseball right now.

 

As for the lineup, you'd have to play the left/right matchups well, but both Baker and Soriano have destroyed lefthanded pitching in their careers and that includes this year for both of them. Against righthanders who you put behind Fielder would be more nebulous and would depend largely on how Jackson and Flaherty were hitting them.

 

The rotation would still clearly have to carry the team, but I think with a top three of Garza/Wilson/Dempster, the rotation would be capable of it. Especially when you consider we could be looking at a Cardinals team without Pujols and a Brewers team without Fielder. A .500 team might win the Central next year.

[questionmarkgrace]

i don't think that line up is a contender at all. All it will amount to is a boat load of walks for fielder and a bunch of gidp's for soto and byrd. Plus our rotation is more than one solid starter away from being good. we need 2 at this point.

 

If this year's Randy Wells is the Randy Wells we're getting from here on out, I agree we need a couple of starters. I don't think we can just assume that, though. And Wilson has been far better than a solid starter the past couple of years. He's one of the best pitchers in baseball right now.

 

As for the lineup, you'd have to play the left/right matchups well, but both Baker and Soriano have destroyed lefthanded pitching in their careers and that includes this year for both of them. Against righthanders who you put behind Fielder would be more nebulous and would depend largely on how Jackson and Flaherty were hitting them.

 

The rotation would still clearly have to carry the team, but I think with a top three of Garza/Wilson/Dempster, the rotation would be capable of it. Especially when you consider we could be looking at a Cardinals team without Pujols and a Brewers team without Fielder. A .500 team might win the Central next year.

 

its looking less and less like Pujols is leaving the cardinals especially considering the team they are putting around him. I personally think he stays. But the pirates are certainly up and coming and will continue to get better with clint hurdle at the helm. plus they seem to own us these days. And the reds are looking perennial. I think we have seen the real Randy Wells for the last year and a half now. There are too many question marks in that line up. So if you are talking about competing for third place then maybe because I dont see this team competing with the Cards and the Reds next year.

[Sammy Sofa]

i don't think that line up is a contender at all. All it will amount to is a boat load of walks for fielder and a bunch of gidp's for soto and byrd. Plus our rotation is more than one solid starter away from being good. we need 2 at this point.

 

If this year's Randy Wells is the Randy Wells we're getting from here on out, I agree we need a couple of starters. I don't think we can just assume that, though. And Wilson has been far better than a solid starter the past couple of years. He's one of the best pitchers in baseball right now.

 

As for the lineup, you'd have to play the left/right matchups well, but both Baker and Soriano have destroyed lefthanded pitching in their careers and that includes this year for both of them. Against righthanders who you put behind Fielder would be more nebulous and would depend largely on how Jackson and Flaherty were hitting them.

 

The rotation would still clearly have to carry the team, but I think with a top three of Garza/Wilson/Dempster, the rotation would be capable of it. Especially when you consider we could be looking at a Cardinals team without Pujols and a Brewers team without Fielder. A .500 team might win the Central next year.

 

its looking less and less like Pujols is leaving the cardinals especially considering the team they are putting around him.

 

What team? Furcal's contract is up after this year unless the Cardinals opt for the $12 million team option. That doesn't seem to increase the chances of bringing back Pujols since, one, Furcal sucks, and two, he'd be expensive. And they traded away Rasmus for garbage. If anything, they've downgraded the team and their chances of re-signing him with these latest moves.

[questionmarkgrace]

i don't think that line up is a contender at all. All it will amount to is a boat load of walks for fielder and a bunch of gidp's for soto and byrd. Plus our rotation is more than one solid starter away from being good. we need 2 at this point.

 

If this year's Randy Wells is the Randy Wells we're getting from here on out, I agree we need a couple of starters. I don't think we can just assume that, though. And Wilson has been far better than a solid starter the past couple of years. He's one of the best pitchers in baseball right now.

 

As for the lineup, you'd have to play the left/right matchups well, but both Baker and Soriano have destroyed lefthanded pitching in their careers and that includes this year for both of them. Against righthanders who you put behind Fielder would be more nebulous and would depend largely on how Jackson and Flaherty were hitting them.

 

The rotation would still clearly have to carry the team, but I think with a top three of Garza/Wilson/Dempster, the rotation would be capable of it. Especially when you consider we could be looking at a Cardinals team without Pujols and a Brewers team without Fielder. A .500 team might win the Central next year.

 

its looking less and less like Pujols is leaving the cardinals especially considering the team they are putting around him.

 

What team? Furcal's contract is up after this year unless the Cardinals opt for the $12 million team option. That doesn't seem to increase the chances of bringing back Pujols since, one, Furcal sucks, and two, he'd be expensive. And they traded away Rasmus for garbage. If anything, they've downgraded the team and their chances of re-signing him with these latest moves.

 

edwin jackson is garbage? Furcal may have renegotiated his option for next year. He is a clear upgrade over theriot though. Plus they are still looking at trading for Heath Bell.

[Sammy Sofa]

Jackson is also only signed through this year. Heath Bell is only signed through this year. So their plans to make a better team to get him to stay is a bunch of guys that they'll have to pay a ton of money to to keep next year, either via re-signings or options...and trading away Rasmus.

 

Brilliant strategy. And Pujols is going to, what, stay out of the goodness of his heart? What about Carpenter? Either they use the team option for 2012 and pay him, too, or they let him go and downgrade the starting rotation. How are they going to pay Pujols anywhere near what he wants by adding all of these salaries?

[questionmarkgrace]

Jackson is also only signed through this year. Heath Bell is only signed through this year. So their plans to make a better team to get him to stay is a bunch of guys that they'll have to pay a ton of money to to keep next year, either via re-signings or options...and trading away Rasmus.

 

Brilliant strategy. And Pujols is going to, what, stay out of the goodness of his heart? What about Carpenter? Either they use the team option for 2012 and pay him, too, or they let him go and downgrade the starting rotation. How are they going to pay Pujols anywhere near what he wants by adding all of these salaries?

 

I didn't realize all of those contracts were expiring. but, berkman is a free agent as is carpenter and pujols. Thats 38 million to work with right there. If they keep the payroll the same at 98 million that allows them to sign Pujols for say 22 mil at who knows how many years, Jackson at 10 million, and they could probably keep furcal at a 1 year incentive laden 6 mil.

 

If they bump the payroll about 10 -15 mil then they can probably resign carpenter at a reduced rate and heath bell long term.