Minor League Discussion & Boxes 7-30-11

[Outshined_One]

Box Scores

 

Iowa lost 6-3 Box Score

 

CF B. Jackson 1/3, BB, R, RBI, HR (3), K

2B DJ LeMahieu 0/4, K, CS (3)

1B B. LaHair 0/4, K

LF L. Montanez 1/4, K

RF B. Snyder 1/4

3B S. Moore 0/3, BB, R

C S. Clevenger 3/4, RBI, 2 2B (3), K

SS M. Gonzalez 1/3, R, RBI, HR (2)

SP N. Struck 5 IP, 6 H, 3 ER, 3 BB, 6 K, WP, 0-9 GO-FO

RP C. Smith 1 perfect, 1 K, 1-0 GO-FO

RP C. Carpenter 1.1 IP, 3 H, 3 ER, 2 BB, 1 K, 1-1 GO-FO

RP S. Maine .2 perfect, 1 K, 1-0 GO-FO

 

Tennessee won 8-2 Box Score

 

SS N. Samson 1/5, 2 R, 2 RBI

3B J. Vitters 1/5, CS (7)

DH R. Ridling 1/4, BB

RF M. Spencer 0/4, BB, R, 3 K

C L. Flores 1/4, BB, R, 2B (6)

SP B. Raley 4 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 2 K, HR, 9-1 GO-FO

RP O. Martinez 2 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 2 K, 1-2 GO-FO

RP J. Stevens 2 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 2 K, 0-3 GO-FO

RP R. Dolis 1 perfect, 1 K, 1-0 GO-FO

 

Daytona won 3-2 Box Score

 

CF E. Crawford 0/4, 3 K

SS L. Watkins 1/4, R, K

1B G. Rohan 0/4, K

DH J. Bour 1/3, BB, R, 2B (24)

PR/DH M. Szczur 0/0, R

LF A. Abreu 0/4, 2 K

RF N. Perez 0/3, 2 K

SP B. Wallach 5.2 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 2 BB, 4 K, 4-6 GO-FO

RP A. Kurcz 1.1 perfect, 3 K, 0-1 GO-FO

RP L. Suarez 2 perfect, 4-1 GO-FO

 

Peoria won 3-1 Box Score

 

CF T. Easterling 1/3, RBI, 2 K

2B R. Silva 1/4, 2B (13), K

1B D. Geiger 0/4, 2 K

DH R. Jones 1/4, R, 2 K

C M. Gibbs 0/2, 2 BB, K

SS E. Soto 0/1, BB, RBI, K, CS (6)

LF B. Klafczynski 0/3, BB, K

3B A. Alcantara 2/3, R, 2B (12)

SP M. Loosen 5 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 2 BB, 4 K, HR, 3-4 GO-FO

RP P. Francescon 3 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 2 K, 2-3 GO-FO

 

Boise lost 8-7 Box Score

 

2B Z. DeVoss 0/3, BB, R, K, HBP, E (4, missed catch)

CF PC Chen 2/4, R, K

DH R. Lopez 1/4, R, 2 RBI, HR (4)

1B P. Hoilman 2/5, R, RBI, 2 K

C Y. Cabezas 0/5, K, E (2, throw), PB (3)

RF R. Golden 2/4, 2 R, 2 RBI, HR (2)

3B W. Contreras 1/4, 2 RBI, 2B (2), K

LF B. Springfield 1/4, BB, R, K, Assist (3B)

SP SM Jung 1 IP, 0 H, 4 R, 1 ER, 4 BB, 0 K, 2-2 GO-FO

RP C. Greathouse 3.1 IP, 3 H, 4 R, 3 ER, 5 BB, 6 K, 5-1 GO-FO

RP C. Thomas 1.1 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 2 K

 

Both games of the DSL Cubs 1 doubleheader PPD

 

DSL Cubs 2 suspended: Box Score

 

OVERALL: 3-2

[Guest]

Probable Starters

 

Iowa: RHP Nick Struck (1-3, 4.30 ERA, 23 IP, 8 K, 11 BB; overall: 8-6, 3.25 ERA, 108 IP, 81 K, 33 BB)

Tennessee: LHP Brooks Raley (6-8, 4.23 ERA, 100 IP, 52 K, 36 BB)

Daytona: RHP Brett Wallach (3-5, 5.91 ERA, 85.1 IP, 67 K, 32 BB)

Peoria: RHP Matt Loosen (2-1, 1.73 ERA, 26 IP, 24 K, 4 BB; overall: 2-3, 3.35 ERA, 45.2 IP, 44 K, 16 BB)

Boise: RHP Su-Min Jung (0-1, 4.66 ERA, 9.2 IP, 8 K, 12 BB; overall: 2-3, 5.23 ERA, 53.1 IP, 27 K, 36 BB)

[toonsterwu]

Having a nice little discussion over on Sickels site with mrkupe and Jeff Reese about the Cubs/Astros comparison. I certainly am biased, but I still fail to see how the top tier of the Astros system gives them a clear edge over the Cubs system. Honestly, after the top tier of the Astros system, that's a pretty bad system.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Having a nice little discussion over on Sickels site with mrkupe and Jeff Reese about the Cubs/Astros comparison. I certainly am biased, but I still fail to see how the top tier of the Astros system gives them a clear edge over the Cubs system. Honestly, after the top tier of the Astros system, that's a pretty bad system.

 

Not only are the Astros the worst team in baseball, but they also have one of the 4 worst farm systems in baseball, although the Pence trade might have helped them out there. Still, they have a long way to go, and comparing them to the Cubs is depressing and wrong.

[toonsterwu]

I respect those guys opinions on the minors, but man, I think they are off on that comparison. They give George Springer a clear edge over Brett Jackson. Okay, I can buy that, even though I disagree with it. They give Cosart a clear edge over McNutt. That one, I have trouble buying having seen Cosart and heard reports, but okay ... I can buy that. mrkupe agrees that after the top couple guys, the Cubs system has better depth. I just don't buy that the top two gap is that much wider to carry the Astros system ahead.

 

I mean, they are going guys like Mike Foltyniewicz, a very promising arm, a B- (Jeff Reese did). Folty's got a good fastball, but the reports I have this year suggest that his secondary stuff isn't showing well and he's been inconsistent. Sure, he's young and projectable, but I don't really think he's better than say, Starling Peralta/Wilengton Cruz/Luis Liria/Yao-lin Wang types by that much, if at all, and I was leaning to giving those 4 guys C level grades. I like Ben Wells better than Folty, and I was leaning C+ on Wells (though a couple of them were giving him a B- as well. After that? Altuve is going to lose prospect status (and I'm not huge on him either), and then you are in a wasteland area. I see the Astros system as (no Altuve) having 3 B+/B types, and then C+ from 4-9, and then C after that. I'm hard pressed to buy Delino DeShields Jr. as a B- right now, which an Astros fan suggested. Sure, he's young, but he K's too much for his skillset, and the hit tool isn't that elite.

 

I'm not even propping the Cubs system up. I tend to think we're probably, in terms of system ranking, going to come in the bottom third (that said, with the intriguing young talent in the lower levels, I'm actually fairly intrigued/excited). They were saying that JD Martinez is clearly a better prospect than Ryan Flaherty. Just befuddling to me. I'm not even bashing the Astros system. It's improved, but geesh, I tend to think that's one of the five worst systems in the game.

[Outshined_One]

I respect those guys opinions on the minors, but man, I think they are off on that comparison. They give George Springer a clear edge over Brett Jackson. Okay, I can buy that, even though I disagree with it. They give Cosart a clear edge over McNutt. That one, I have trouble buying having seen Cosart and heard reports, but okay ... I can buy that. mrkupe agrees that after the top couple guys, the Cubs system has better depth. I just don't buy that the top two gap is that much wider to carry the Astros system ahead.

 

I mean, they are going guys like Mike Foltyniewicz, a very promising arm, a B- (Jeff Reese did). Folty's got a good fastball, but the reports I have this year suggest that his secondary stuff isn't showing well and he's been inconsistent. Sure, he's young and projectable, but I don't really think he's better than say, Starling Peralta/Wilengton Cruz/Luis Liria/Yao-lin Wang types by that much, if at all, and I was leaning to giving those 4 guys C level grades. I like Ben Wells better than Folty, and I was leaning C+ on Wells (though a couple of them were giving him a B- as well. After that? Altuve is going to lose prospect status (and I'm not huge on him either), and then you are in a wasteland area. I see the Astros system as (no Altuve) having 3 B+/B types, and then C+ from 4-9, and then C after that. I'm hard pressed to buy Delino DeShields Jr. as a B- right now, which an Astros fan suggested. Sure, he's young, but he K's too much for his skillset, and the hit tool isn't that elite.

 

I'm not even propping the Cubs system up. I tend to think we're probably, in terms of system ranking, going to come in the bottom third (that said, with the intriguing young talent in the lower levels, I'm actually fairly intrigued/excited). They were saying that JD Martinez is clearly a better prospect than Ryan Flaherty. Just befuddling to me. I'm not even bashing the Astros system. It's improved, but geesh, I tend to think that's one of the five worst systems in the game.

 

I think their perception can be broken into two parts.

 

The first part is that the Cubs system has taken a step back this year due to injuries and slumps. The only real breakouts we had this year were Robert Whitenack and Matt Szczur. Even those prospects who've showed improvement have only marginally improved their stock. The Astros system hasn't had as much success, but their struggles have not been as noteworthy or newsworthy.

 

That brings me to the second point: name recognition. The lower levels of the Cubs' system is made up of a lot of unknowns. As exciting and intriguing Peralta/Liria/Cruz/Wang/et al. are, I don't think most people who follow the minors know who they are, much less how much potential they have. Wells gets some attention for his signing bonus, but that's about it. Folty and DeShields were high profile draft picks. Altuve and Martinez have been in the minors for awhile. While Baez got some attention in the draft, Springer got a ton since he was on TV and people were discussing him as a potential Top 5 pick prior to this season.

 

I don't agree with them, but I see where they're coming from on that.

 

Since we're here, how would you rank Peralta, Cruz, Wang, and Liria?

[toonsterwu]

I'm more in a gathering phase on those guys, as I haven't made any trips in the last month or so (not that way at least). I know a couple posters on Sickels (and I'm guessing they post at BCB as well, but I don't post there anymore) think Wang should be at the top. Personally, I have Wang at the back end (and I have personal bias there as I want him to succeed). Good fastball, average secondary stuff, but little projection. Makes me think of another Taiwanese arm - Sung-Wei Tseng, who eventually had to make a pen move. He's better than Hung-Wen Chen was (only comes to mind because there was a site hyping him up several years back).

 

Liria's third for me. There's some projection there, the fastball's solid in the low 90's, the secondary stuff has a decent feel to it and seems like they have some above average potential.

 

Top two, I go back and forth on. I like what I've heard on Cruz. Seems like the kid has a good feel, good pitchability, and there's projection on the fastball. I think the general feeling seems to be that Peralta's upside is a bit higher, though. At the end of the day, both guys are sort of "wait-and-see" guys as we're hoping they add MPH's onto their fastballs and become starters who can consistently hit mid-90's, but doesn't always happen.

 

Edit: I mean, gun to my head right now, I'll go Peralta on account of his higher upside, followed by Cruz/Liria/Wang.

 

_______

Yeah, I think name recognition is a big factor why they are propping up the Astros system. The general perception amongst prospect followers is that the Cubs system is far down from the end of last year. It's down, but I'm just not sold it's by all that much. Surprisingly, mrkupe gave Struck a B-. One of the rare times anyone makes a comment on Struck, despite my efforts to stir conversation there on him.

 

I look at the two systems and I think it's close. I'll even go with their grades for the top 3 or 4 (Springer/Cosart/Singleton/Altuve if he's eligible). They are giving high grades to some lower level folks that befuddle me. Ovando as a B-? Seems generous. Not sure why Ovando is definitely a notch higher than, say, Reggie Golden (for them). I see a 4th OF in JD Martinez, but who knows.

[Guest]

I like those rankings. I think Peralta is #1 and Wang #4 for sure. Liria might lack Cruz's projection but his present stuff is solid enough that I could push him in front of Cruz.

 

I think I read on TCR that Amaury Paulino had TJS. That's a shame, he was the other of the 3 intriguing DSL pitching prospects from last year (along with Cruz and Peralta). He had stuff similar to Peralta.

[TruffleShuffle]

Personally, I have Wang at the back end

 

didn't know you were that kind of guy

[Little Slide Rooter]

Brett Jackson with another HR and a BB today. Marwin Gonzalez homered as well. Carlton Smith pitched a perfect inning in his I Cubs debut.

 

Matt Szczur pinch ran in Daytona, so thats probably a good sign.

[TruffleShuffle]

jeez su-min jung is just a mess.

[ScrubMD]

Kurcz continues to be unhittable as a reliever (except for his appearance on the 19th). 1.1 perfect innings, 3 k.

 

As a reliever:

2.49 ERA

21.2 IP

32/9 K/BB

15 H

 

And 4 of those walks, 3 of the hits, and 3 of the runs were his one terrible outing. I say get him up to AA and see if he can get to the major league team by the middle of next year. Him and Beliveau added to Marmol, Marshall, and Wood could be pretty stellar.

[toonsterwu]

I hate throwing cold water on a guy I'm high on, but is anyone a bit concerned about Struck's mechanics? I'm not a pitching mechanics guy, but it looks like it could use some polishing. The best comparison I can make is to a football QB. The ideal football QB mechanic comes lock and loaded after the snap, arms high (doesn't make a good QB, though, Rex Grossman had good QB mechanics). A guy like Byron Leftwich had a big windup. Struck pulls the ball down and back a tiny bit, before raising and whipping, and there's a bit of a cross-body action. The cross-body action isn't as bad as, say, Jay Jackson's was, but it does bother me everytime I see him pitch.

[fiver]

Dolis appears to be back on track after a rough stretch.

[Guest]

In case anyone missed it, Reggie Golden hit his 2nd pro HR yesterday.