Heyman - Cubs looking to eat "big bucks" to trade Z or Sori

[Sammy Sofa]

Then I just don't understand why if Z is such a valuable asset that no team seems to want him despite the Cubs willing to pay a lot of his contract. Even IF the Cubs wanted some good prospect back in return, you'd think they'd have a real easy time doing that if people desired Zambrano so much. The Cubs have been trying to trade Z at various points, and have never been able to do it. That Z is still a Cub, even though they don't really want him to be anymore, proves to me that contending teams just don't want him.

 

Wait, what? The only reported instance of the bold part of your post is this Yankees rumor, and we have no idea what the details are. What's far more likely than your theory is that Cubs offered to pay a lot of the money owed for him in exchange for someone like Montero and the Yankees said no.

 

The Cubs "eating big bucks" when it comes to trading Zambrano almost certainly means they're looking to get a good return. You're conflating trading him with dumping Soriano.

Edited July 28, 2011 by Sammy Sofa

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Then I just don't understand why if Z is such a valuable asset that no team seems to want him despite the Cubs willing to pay a lot of his contract. Even IF the Cubs wanted some good prospect back in return, you'd think they'd have a real easy time doing that if people desired Zambrano so much. The Cubs have been trying to trade Z at various points, and have never been able to do it. That Z is still a Cub, even though they don't really want him to be anymore, proves to me that contending teams just don't want him.

 

If it doesn't make sense, and all we have are unnamed sources, then I think the conclusion you should draw is that the reports that the Cubs are willing to pay "a lot" of his contract and "no one wants him" are exaggerated.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Then I just don't understand why if Z is such a valuable asset that no team seems to want him despite the Cubs willing to pay a lot of his contract. Even IF the Cubs wanted some good prospect back in return, you'd think they'd have a real easy time doing that if people desired Zambrano so much. The Cubs have been trying to trade Z at various points, and have never been able to do it. That Z is still a Cub, even though they don't really want him to be anymore, proves to me that contending teams just don't want him.

 

If it doesn't make sense, and all we have are unnamed sources, then I think the conclusion you should draw is that the reports that the Cubs are willing to pay "a lot" of his contract and "no one wants him" are exaggerated.

 

I can pretty much guarantee that if Jim Hendry went to any contender and said if you want Zambrano for a hand full of fringe prospects and we'll eat 80% his salary, he wouldn't get a lot of nos.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Per Bruce Miles-Z:"I want to stay, but the team needs a change". Didn't quite specify exactly what he meant.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

I guess I'll have to be considered the moron on this one. Because I just feel that at various points over the last two seasons (including during last season's timeout) that the Cubs would have been fine trading Zambrano. And I do believe that they'd be willing to all but give him away if a team would just take his contract......or would also be fine with having to eat salary to get a good prospect back because nobody was willing to just take his contract with no salary relief.

[Sammy Sofa]

But now you're describing something different. You're right, most teams probably don't want to give up a good prospect or prospects for him, even if the Cubs are picking up a lot of the bill. He's good, but he's in that middle ground of not being good enough to "merit" such a return. Even with the Cubs picking up a lot of his contract there'd still be big expectations around him, much like you get Cubs fans thinking "ace or bust with him" because of his reputation and his contract. But what you were describing before, that teams are turning down the Cubs paying a ton of his contract AND not asking for much in return...well, no, that seems very, very unlikely. I doubt there's a team out there that wouldn't jump on such a deal.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

To add one more thing: I don't understand why in a market that craves pitching, that several teams wouldn't line up to grab Z and give up a nice prospect if he was wanted so much and the Cubs were willing to pay a lot of his salary? The Mets didn't have a problem getting a top 35 prospect for Beltran. Why would we have such a hard time getting a top 35 prospect for Z if we are willing to pay a team to take him?

 

It's because most teams don't think he's that good or don't want to deal with what some perceive to be a problem child.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

But now you're describing something different. You're right, most teams probably don't want to give up a good prospect or prospects for him, even if the Cubs are picking up a lot of the bill. He's good, but he's in that middle ground of not being good enough to "merit" such a return. Even with the Cubs picking up a lot of his contract there'd still be big expectations around him, much like you get Cubs fans thinking "ace or bust with him" because of his reputation and his contract. But what you were describing before, that teams are turning down the Cubs paying a ton of his contract AND not asking for much in return...well, no, that seems very, very unlikely. I doubt there's a team out there that wouldn't jump on such a deal.

 

I do see your point, and I'm willing to concede that I am foolish to think nobody would just take Z.

[Sammy Sofa]

But now you're describing something different. You're right, most teams probably don't want to give up a good prospect or prospects for him, even if the Cubs are picking up a lot of the bill. He's good, but he's in that middle ground of not being good enough to "merit" such a return. Even with the Cubs picking up a lot of his contract there'd still be big expectations around him, much like you get Cubs fans thinking "ace or bust with him" because of his reputation and his contract. But what you were describing before, that teams are turning down the Cubs paying a ton of his contract AND not asking for much in return...well, no, that seems very, very unlikely. I doubt there's a team out there that wouldn't jump on such a deal.

 

I do see your point, and I'm willing to concede that I am foolish to think nobody would just take Z.

 

Fair enough.

 

I think the main thing in this is we don't know how much of his contract the Cubs are offering to absorb. It's likely not much if they're getting refusals. Or they've just made him available and they targeting the Yankees because of someone they wanted in return and we've yet to hear who else might be willing to offer what.

[questionmarkgrace]

But now you're describing something different. You're right, most teams probably don't want to give up a good prospect or prospects for him, even if the Cubs are picking up a lot of the bill. He's good, but he's in that middle ground of not being good enough to "merit" such a return. Even with the Cubs picking up a lot of his contract there'd still be big expectations around him, much like you get Cubs fans thinking "ace or bust with him" because of his reputation and his contract. But what you were describing before, that teams are turning down the Cubs paying a ton of his contract AND not asking for much in return...well, no, that seems very, very unlikely. I doubt there's a team out there that wouldn't jump on such a deal.

 

I do see your point, and I'm willing to concede that I am foolish to think nobody would just take Z.

 

Fair enough.

 

I think the main thing in this is we don't know how much of his contract the Cubs are offering to absorb. It's likely not much if they're getting refusals. Or they've just made him available and they targeting the Yankees because of someone they wanted in return and we've yet to hear who else might be willing to offer what.

 

yeah, its hard to say without knowing for sure. I wouldn't be surprised if the yankees rejected it based on money or prospects or both. However I would be equally less surprised if it was a combination of those factors and their perception Z as a mediocre pitcher in a mediocre division. Its probably not just one or the other as multiple factors go into making a trade.

[Sammy Sofa]

He's not "mediocre" enough that teams left and right would be passing on the Cubs picking up a good chunk of the money owed to him. That's the point I was responding to.

[questionmarkgrace]

He's not "mediocre" enough that teams left and right would be passing on the Cubs picking up a good chunk of the money owed to him. That's the point I was responding to.

 

this article seems to suggest otherwise:

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-0728-cubs-brewers-chicago--20110728,0,3036298.story

 

but it is probably just Sullivan rewriting what others have said. Yeah, its not like Z is worthless. Plenty of teams would take him if a big chunk of salary were picked up. Its just that the cubs im sure want a good prospect in return for doing so. Hendry wants to have his cake and eat it too (Insert fat joke here).

[Sammy Sofa]

The article suggest nothing contrary to the post you quoted. Read it again.

[questionmarkgrace]

The article suggest nothing contrary to the post you quoted. Read it again.

 

we already know from other reports that they have conceded to pay a rather large chunk of his salary.

so reading this:

 

club sources said there is no interest in him, making the clause irrelevant.

 

certainly suggests that teams are passing on him. Again we don't know if they are asking for prospects, but I would think he would mention something about there not being a match rather then suggesting there is no interest in him.

But like I said. its probably just paul sullivan rehashing what has already been said and not anything new.

[Sammy Sofa]

It's common sense. I'm sorry, but if the Cubs are willing to eat a ton of his contract and inexplicably aren't asking for much in return you wouldn't be getting no interest. It's a ridiculous to conclusion to think that's happening. Again, there's nothing in the article that even hints that the Cubs aren't getting interest if they're picking up a bunch of the tab and not looking for much in return.

 

There's likely not much interest in Zambrano in regards to, one: the Cubs not picking up much or any of his contract, or two: the Cubs picking up a lot of his contract but wanting something good in return.

 

If you honestly think teams are passing on Zambrano because the Cubs are offering to pay for a lot of his salary AND aren't asking for much in return, well, I don't know what to tell you. That's a fantasy world that doesn't exist.

 

Zambrano's probably still owed, what, like $26 million? Let's say "big money" means the Cubs are willing to pick up $12-16 million of that. They're also inexplicably not asking much in return beyond a couple fringe-y or long shot prospects at the most. You're really telling me that NO team out there is going to have interest in such a bizarrely lopsided deal and want to take a chance on him?

[Backtobanks]

But now you're describing something different. You're right, most teams probably don't want to give up a good prospect or prospects for him, even if the Cubs are picking up a lot of the bill. He's good, but he's in that middle ground of not being good enough to "merit" such a return. Even with the Cubs picking up a lot of his contract there'd still be big expectations around him, much like you get Cubs fans thinking "ace or bust with him" because of his reputation and his contract. But what you were describing before, that teams are turning down the Cubs paying a ton of his contract AND not asking for much in return...well, no, that seems very, very unlikely. I doubt there's a team out there that wouldn't jump on such a deal.

 

I do see your point, and I'm willing to concede that I am foolish to think nobody would just take Z.

 

Fair enough.

 

I think the main thing in this is we don't know how much of his contract the Cubs are offering to absorb. It's likely not much if they're getting refusals. Or they've just made him available and they targeting the Yankees because of someone they wanted in return and we've yet to hear who else might be willing to offer what.

 

yeah, its hard to say without knowing for sure. I wouldn't be surprised if the yankees rejected it based on money or prospects or both. However I would be equally less surprised if it was a combination of those factors and their perception Z as a mediocre pitcher in a mediocre division. Its probably not just one or the other as multiple factors go into making a trade.

 

That's been one point that I've made all along in any Hendry discussion - none of us know exactly what's being discussed. All of us (myself included) discuss deals and trade proposals without any "real" information. The part we can all agree on is that we're getting a lot of "inside nformation" from 2 of the biggest hacks around (Phil Rogers and Paul Sullivan).

[MSG T]

He's not "mediocre" enough that teams left and right would be passing on the Cubs picking up a good chunk of the money owed to him. That's the point I was responding to.

 

this article seems to suggest otherwise:

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-0728-cubs-brewers-chicago--20110728,0,3036298.story

 

but it is probably just Sullivan rewriting what others have said. Yeah, its not like Z is worthless. Plenty of teams would take him if a big chunk of salary were picked up. Its just that the cubs im sure want a good prospect in return for doing so. Hendry wants to have his cake and eat it too (Insert fat joke here).

 

That last paragraph suggests they aren't willing or offering to eat a bunch of his salary.

 

The Cubs have made it clear that they're willing to deal Zambrano, though they haven't found any takers. Zambrano's hefty salary, along with his reputation for pointing fingers when things go wrong, have cooled most teams in search of starting pitching

 

Pointing out his hefty salary as being a reason he hasn't had any takers, or is my reading comprehension lacking?

[MSG T]

He's not "mediocre" enough that teams left and right would be passing on the Cubs picking up a good chunk of the money owed to him. That's the point I was responding to.

 

this article seems to suggest otherwise:

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-0728-cubs-brewers-chicago--20110728,0,3036298.story

 

but it is probably just Sullivan rewriting what others have said. Yeah, its not like Z is worthless. Plenty of teams would take him if a big chunk of salary were picked up. Its just that the cubs im sure want a good prospect in return for doing so. Hendry wants to have his cake and eat it too (Insert fat joke here).

 

That last paragraph suggests they aren't willing or offering to eat a bunch of his salary.

 

The Cubs have made it clear that they're willing to deal Zambrano, though they haven't found any takers. Zambrano's hefty salary, along with his reputation for pointing fingers when things go wrong, have cooled most teams in search of starting pitching

 

Pointing out his hefty salary as being a reason he hasn't had any takers, or is my reading comprehension lacking?

[Sammy Sofa]

Nope. That's exactly what it's saying, which implies the Cubs are either not offering to pick up enough of the tab or or asking for too much in return.

[javy knows my name]

Nope. That's exactly what it's saying, which implies the Cubs are either not offering to pick up enough of the tab or or asking for too much in return.

 

Is it that, or is it that nobody wants him even for free because he's a BUM

[Sammy Sofa]

I think the Milton Bradley mention earlier is apt because it reminds us THAT MULTIPLE TEAMS HAVE TAKEN A CHANCE ON MILTON [expletive] BRADLEY. That should be the first thing on anyone's mind when they start thinking, "the Cubs can't trade Zambrano regardless of what they ask for or pay because NO team wants to take on a headcase like him!"

[Hacking Out Machine]

2 years ago, I told a Cardinal fan friend of mine that if I was Hendry, I would offer any team willing to take Soriano and his contract any 4 players in the Cubs organization for nothing. He said he wouldn't do it.

[JimSorgi]

2 years ago, I told a Cardinal fan friend of mine that if I was Hendry, I would offer any team willing to take Soriano and his contract any 4 players in the Cubs organization for nothing. He said he wouldn't do it.

Cool.

[Sammy Sofa]

Makes sense. The Cubs' system looked a LOT worse 2 years ago, Soriano would have been even more expensive, and the best players that the Cubs had (outside of Soto) were pretty expensive themselves.

[SouthSideRyan]

Good story.