Z to the pen

[ReadytoPlayCF]

Touche. But once again, who can the Ricketts hire who does have a stellar resume? Dierker and Valentine have a lot of blemishes too.

 

Every manager is going to have "blemishes." It's not like Lou has some amazing history that blows them or all other candidates out of the water. I just want a manager that isn't going to over-manage and lose games, because that's what a manager has far more impact over than teams actually winning.

 

Very fair opinion.

 

In my Cubbie Dreams, the Ricketts setup a sound and definate philosophy of how to win, then hire great baseball people to put the philosophy to work at every level of the franchise. Over time the Cubs have mostly homegrown talent who already play the game within the franchise's philosophy. With this accomplished the manager could be far less manipulating. And I realize the vast majority on this board probably agree with this.

 

But our current situation is far from that dream scenario and I do think Lou's "crazy" decisions are warranted.

[samhainn77]

I absolutely hate this move on so many levels. However, what's been eating at me is that maybe Lou ISN'T this dumb. What if they are playing dumb to hide an injury that is severely going to limit Z's innings this year? Maybe they know about some fraying that they are keeping under wraps and they are trying to get as much out of Z this season as possible.

 

What would be the point of that as opposed to shutting him down and putting him on the DL or having him have surgery if that's necessary? Again, we're talking about a 28-year-old pitcher here in the middle of a huge, largely untrade-able contract. How does it benefit the Cubs to "hide" an injury or let him pitch through it?

 

It doesn't help at all, long term. It would be devastating. Short term, however, maybe you steal an extra 5 or 6 wins and sneak into the playoffs - thus saving your job until next year where you have to deal with Z recovering from surgery.

 

Again, this isn't an option for competent, forward thinking GMs. Neither are 8 year deals with NTC to 31 year olds.

 

But we're talking the long term now since it's only 2 weeks into the season. If Z has an injury that is keeping him from starting then he's not going to last the whole year, or if it does it won't be as an effective reliever or as one that you can call in enough to "steal those extra wins." It's simply not a realistic scenario at all.

 

Isn't that exactly what they did with Harden after we acquired him in 2008? Even through most of last year, skipped starts, limited innings, etc. http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/fantasy/wsfb/news/index.jsp?action=locate&pid=425848

[Sammy Sofa]

I absolutely hate this move on so many levels. However, what's been eating at me is that maybe Lou ISN'T this dumb. What if they are playing dumb to hide an injury that is severely going to limit Z's innings this year? Maybe they know about some fraying that they are keeping under wraps and they are trying to get as much out of Z this season as possible.

 

What would be the point of that as opposed to shutting him down and putting him on the DL or having him have surgery if that's necessary? Again, we're talking about a 28-year-old pitcher here in the middle of a huge, largely untrade-able contract. How does it benefit the Cubs to "hide" an injury or let him pitch through it?

 

It doesn't help at all, long term. It would be devastating. Short term, however, maybe you steal an extra 5 or 6 wins and sneak into the playoffs - thus saving your job until next year where you have to deal with Z recovering from surgery.

 

Again, this isn't an option for competent, forward thinking GMs. Neither are 8 year deals with NTC to 31 year olds.

 

But we're talking the long term now since it's only 2 weeks into the season. If Z has an injury that is keeping him from starting then he's not going to last the whole year, or if it does it won't be as an effective reliever or as one that you can call in enough to "steal those extra wins." It's simply not a realistic scenario at all.

 

Isn't that exactly what they did with Harden after we acquired him in 2008? Even through most of last year, skipped starts, limited innings, etc. http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/fantasy/wsfb/news/index.jsp?action=locate&pid=425848

 

This isn't the same thing at all. Z would still more valuable as a starter if he had all of those things done for him. You don't move a pitcher that requires that kind of care to the bullpen where they have to pitch much more often and arguably put more strain on their mechanics.

[17 Seconds]

Touche. But once again, who can the Ricketts hire who does have a stellar resume? Dierker and Valentine have a lot of blemishes too.

 

Every manager is going to have "blemishes." It's not like Lou has some amazing history that blows them or all other candidates out of the water. I just want a manager that isn't going to over-manage and lose games, because that's what a manager has far more impact over than teams actually winning.

 

Very fair opinion.

 

In my Cubbie Dreams, the Ricketts setup a sound and definate philosophy of how to win, then hire great baseball people to put the philosophy to work at every level of the franchise. Over time the Cubs have mostly homegrown talent who already play the game within the franchise's philosophy. With this accomplished the manager could be far less manipulating. And I realize the vast majority on this board probably agree with this.

 

But our current situation is far from that dream scenario and I do think Lou's "crazy" decisions are warranted.

 

Crazy decisions are never warranted

[ReadytoPlayCF]

Touche. But once again, who can the Ricketts hire who does have a stellar resume? Dierker and Valentine have a lot of blemishes too.

 

Every manager is going to have "blemishes." It's not like Lou has some amazing history that blows them or all other candidates out of the water. I just want a manager that isn't going to over-manage and lose games, because that's what a manager has far more impact over than teams actually winning.

 

Very fair opinion.

 

In my Cubbie Dreams, the Ricketts setup a sound and definate philosophy of how to win, then hire great baseball people to put the philosophy to work at every level of the franchise. Over time the Cubs have mostly homegrown talent who already play the game within the franchise's philosophy. With this accomplished the manager could be far less manipulating. And I realize the vast majority on this board probably agree with this.

 

But our current situation is far from that dream scenario and I do think Lou's "crazy" decisions are warranted.

 

Crazy decisions are never warranted

 

I didn't write crazy decisions are warranted; I wrote "crazy" decisions to quote most opinions of this move.

[samhainn77]

I realize Z is still more valuable as a starter, I'm not sure why you keep trying to talk me into it. I think the move is ridiculous whatever the reasoning is. We're not talking about rational people, we're talking about Lou. He already has a precedence for moving starters to relievers to lighten the stress on their arms. That was the main reason for Woody coming back as a reliever. The assetion was that he could handle throwing fewer pitches every few days better than lots of pitches every 5. It doesn't matter. You think my scenario is not worth discussing and I don't agree with your broad brushed assumptions about what lou is or isn't dumb enough to do. This is clearly a "When in Rome" situation.

[Sammy Sofa]

It's not. There are dumb decisions, and then there are completely irrational ones. Lou is a bad manager, but he's not a lunatic.

[mcgoobs]

This is either an incredibly dumb knee-jerk reaction to one awful start and three mediocre to slightly-above-average starts by Zambrano, or a move meant to spur Zambrano mentally in some way. There's no way anyone could look at our rotation containing a returning-from-injury-Lilly and Gorzelanny and Silva, two pitchers who are pitching waaaaay above their talent levels, and not see a reason to keep Zambrano pitching in a starting role. He's not the pitcher he once was and he's not the pitcher we're paying him to be, but he certainly is talented enough to get the ball every fifth day.

 

On the flip side, let's say Lilly comes back effective and the rest of our starters continue to throw well. Now assume Hendry finds someone worthwhile to sign to the pen, and the rest of the relievers stop acting like pitching machines. What happens next? Zambrano is going to be itching for a return to the rotation, so does a) Lou go with a 6-man rotation b) he move one of Gorzelanny/Silva to the bullpen as a long-relief guy or c) Hendry trade one of our starters?

[Sammy Sofa]

Gorz to the bullpen instead of Z makes so much more sense it's....I don't know, I don't even have the words.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Gorz to the bullpen instead of Z makes so much more sense it's....I don't know, I don't even have the words.

 

Gorz traded for a releiver makes more sense. We already have 2 decent lefties in the pen plus Grabow. We need a righty.

 

Gorzo is a decent starter, and could generate some interest by teams with holes in their rotation, but hes certainly not worth sending your ace to the pen for.

[Sammy Sofa]

They need good relievers, regardless of which arm they throw with.

[SouthSideRyan]

I love that everyone keeps talking about this possibly being a message to Z to snap out of it.

 

HE'S COMING OFF A 6 INNING 2 RUN 9 STRIKEOUT GAME

[SouthSideRyan]

He has a 25:8 K/BB ratio with a 4.00 ERA in his 3 starts since opening day. Snap out of it you crazy headcase! You've never even won 10 games in your career

[Sammy Sofa]

YER NOTHIN' BUT A BUM! THIS'LL LEARN YA GOOD!

[treebird]

He has a 25:8 K/BB ratio with a 4.00 ERA in his 3 starts since opening day. Snap out of it you crazy headcase! You've never even won 10 games in your career

 

i heard he hasn't thrown 200 innings in like seven years

[Little Slide Rooter]

But hes 1-2 with a bad ERA, and thats all that matters in Lou Lou Land.

[CincyCubsFan]

It's times like these when Michael Wuertz would come in real handy. Good thing we unloaded his ass...

[YearofDaCubs]

It's times like these when Michael Wuertz would come in real handy. Good thing we unloaded his ass...

For some reason idiot Lou never liked him so his puppet Hendry moved him for peanuts.

[17 Seconds]

i loved lou's quote about how this was just so hendry could have to time to do something, basically demanding he gets a reliever.

 

lou is like a spoiled little kid. "i want a left handed power bat... i want a speedy leadoff hitter.... i want a reliever.... NOW. get it for me NOW!"

 

how about you stop screwing up the stuff you do have before asking for more

[Eric Clipperton]

i loved lou's quote about how this was just so hendry could have to time to do something, basically demanding he gets a reliever.

 

lou is like a spoiled little kid. "i want a left handed power bat... i want a speedy leadoff hitter.... i want a reliever.... NOW. get it for me NOW!"

 

how about you stop screwing up the stuff you do have before asking for more

 

a little kid might be a better manager than lou

[chuckywang]

Does Z pitch tonight? Anybody want to take this action?

[soapy]

I think he does. I think Lou will want to use his new toy immediately.

[Sammy Sofa]

It was mentioned during the game yesterday that he wasn't going to be available until Saturday.

[soapy]

It was mentioned during the game yesterday that he wasn't going to be available until Saturday.

 

Oh. Huh, they had previously said Friday.