Cubs 2nd to last in the NL in OPS aftrer 7th inning

[17 Seconds]

Umm, either that or they handled the pressure better, which is the whole point of this thread.

 

Also, those teams did not have as much pressure on them as the Cubs. Not even close.

 

Are you telling me you don't think the Cubs choked at all in the past 2 postseasons?

 

I'm telling you that you are absolutely, positively, 100% delusional on this subject if you think that athletes give one whit of care how much the fans want the team to win.

 

Are you being serious right now? That's beyond ignorant. They aren't robots.

 

You're in 100% denial if you think that the postseason pressure of the Cubs isn't felt by the players.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Are you being serious right now? That's beyond ignorant. They aren't robots.

 

You're in 100% denial if you think that the postseason pressure of the Cubs isn't felt by the players.

 

Pressure induced by Cubs-fan-specific desire tow in? Absolutely not. Not even a little.

 

You vastly overestimate:

 

1) How much players care about fans.

2) How different Cubs fans are from other fans.

[17 Seconds]

Are you being serious right now? That's beyond ignorant. They aren't robots.

 

You're in 100% denial if you think that the postseason pressure of the Cubs isn't felt by the players.

 

Pressure induced by Cubs-fan-specific desire tow in? Absolutely not. Not even a little.

 

You vastly overestimate:

 

1) How much players care about fans.

2) How different Cubs fans are from other fans.

 

I'm not just talking about fans. It comes from everywhere.

 

You know perfectly well that every time the Cubs get into the playoffs, there is going to be non-stop talk of "can they do it?", "will they choke?", "how will they blow it this year?" etc. The players are asked about it constantly. The media talks about it constantly. The players are forced to deal with garbage questions like "do you believe in curses?" and other nonsense. It's a circus.

 

Everybody is watching them and waiting for them to fail. The minute one bad thing happens, the fans start booing and everybody says "here we go". It's a completely different animal. We saw it last season. The second Loney hit that grand slam, the stadium went completely lifeless for the rest of the series... even though they were only down 2 runs in the first game. Everyone was waiting for them to fail. They expected it.

 

You'd have to be absolutely nuts to believe that playing in the postseason with the Cubs doesn't bring more pressure than playing in the postseason for a team like the Angels or Braves. The only thing that could compare was pre-2004 Boston.

Edited August 11, 2009 by 17 Seconds

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Oh no, the players might get booed and asked a few questions?

 

That *never* happens outside of Chicago.

 

Of course, the booing theory doesn't explain why they lost on the road.

 

I again maintain that you have never, in your life, met an athlete. That's the only possible explanation for why you so severely misunderstand what motivates them.

[17 Seconds]

Oh no, the players might get booed and asked a few questions?

 

That *never* happens outside of Chicago.

 

Of course, the booing theory doesn't explain why they lost on the road.

 

I again maintain that you have never, in your life, met an athlete. That's the only possible explanation for why you so severely misunderstand what motivates them.

 

Ha, that's not what I said at all, but okay. Of course every team deals with that stuff, just not on the level of the Cubs. And I never said anything about the booing costing them anything. It was just an example of the panic mentality that surrounds this team when the playoffs start. You know exactly what I meant, you just are being obnoxious.

 

So let me get this straight. You don't think the Cubs have extra pressure on them in the postseason, and you don't think they choked at all in the past 2 seasons.

 

Are those 2 statements correct? If either of them are, you're not at all worth talking to. They are human beings. I'm sorry that not everything can be computed and figured out on paper.

[nolanwood]

I can tell you that I'm catching nine kinds of hell here in STL from the Cardinal fans. I've tried to explain the difference to them between choking and losing damn near your entire roster due to injuries - it's not working. Keep in mind these folks ARE from Missouri, though...

[17 Seconds]

I can tell you that I'm catching nine kinds of hell here in STL from the Cardinal fans. I've tried to explain the difference to them between choking and losing damn near your entire roster due to injuries - it's not working. Keep in mind these folks ARE from Missouri, though...

 

If the Cubs' health had been as good as the Cards health all season, we'd be like 5 games up on them.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Oh no, the players might get booed and asked a few questions?

 

That *never* happens outside of Chicago.

 

Of course, the booing theory doesn't explain why they lost on the road.

 

I again maintain that you have never, in your life, met an athlete. That's the only possible explanation for why you so severely misunderstand what motivates them.

 

Ha, that's not what I said at all, but okay. Of course every team deals with that stuff, just not on the level of the Cubs. And I never said anything about the booing costing them anything. It was just an example of the panic mentality that surrounds this team when the playoffs start. You know exactly what I meant, you just are being obnoxious.

 

So let me get this straight. You don't think the Cubs have extra pressure on them in the postseason, and you don't think they choked at all in the past 2 seasons.

 

Are those 2 statements correct? If either of them are, you're not at all worth talking to. They are human beings. I'm sorry that not everything can be computed and figured out on paper.

 

The first statement is absolutely correct. The Cubs players have absolutely no more pressure on them to win than any other teams. The only way you could assume they have more is if you believe that being asked a few questions by the media constitutes "pressure" or that players care, even a tiny little bit, what fans think and feel. This is pure fan-induced myopia here. You are a Cubs fan, so you are seeing things from the perspective of a Cubs fan and assuming that station has much more importance than it does.

 

The second statement, I guess, depends on your definitions of 'choke.' I don't believe pressure was in any way the reason they lost.

[17 Seconds]

unbelievable.

 

the cubs have no more pressure on them than other teams. got it.

 

And if they didn't choke last season, then can you explain to me why they completely failed to show up? It's not like they just lost. It's not even like they got blown out. They completely and 100% didn't show up.

 

So for 6 straight games, they looked terrified and could do NOTHING right. Are you one of those people who say "they just picked a bad time to play poorly"?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

unbelievable.

 

the cubs have no more pressure on them than other teams. got it.

 

And if they didn't choke last season, then can you explain to me why they completely failed to show up? It's not like they just lost. It's not even like they got blown out. They completely and 100% didn't show up.

 

So for 6 straight games, they looked terrified and could do NOTHING right. Are you one of those people who say "they just picked a bad time to play poorly"?

 

Yes. Have anything that proves otherwise?

[17 Seconds]

Have anything that proves that Megan Fox is hotter than Rosie O'Donnell?

[abuck1220]

this is brutal to watch, you guys.

 

choking exists. whether the cubs choked in '07, '08, i don't know. either way, none of this proves that clutch exists (which it doesn't).

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Have anything that proves that Megan Fox is hotter than Rosie O'Donnell?

 

Go ask some athletes their opinion. Should you ever actually meet one, you'll learn why your stance is ridiculous.

 

Derrek Lee was born in Sacramento, California. I don't know his background, but presumably he grew up playing baseball and other sports. He was pretty good at baseball, and as time wore on the accolades starting piling up. Scouts came around. Now there's a chance that he could actually play professional baseball for a living, but he has to perform well in front of them. If he doesn't, he goes to college on some mediocre athletic scholarship and goes off to be a high-school gym teacher for $50k/year for the rest of his life? That pressure he handles just fine.

 

He gets his signing bonus, which is nice but probably runs out pretty fast. After a decent but not spectacular rookie ball season, he's 19 and in Ranch Cucamonga of the Cal League. If he doesn't perform well this season, he's on his way to bust status really fast. If he does, he's still on the major-league tract and might make millions of dollar some day, revolutionizing life for his children and family for generations. That pressure he handles just fine.

 

In 1997 and 1998 with the Padres and Marlins, he's got to prove he can hit big-league pitching, all while learning to live the big-league lifestyle, which is incredibly stressful. If he doesn't hit, he's going to get labeled a AAAA player and spend the rest of his life bouncing around the minors and watching people around him live the dream he's not quite good enough to reach. He handles that pressure just fine.

 

In 2003, he's an established big-league player. But now he's in the playoffs. He's got national TV, the chance to move on in the postseason and live every player's dream. He knows reputations are made in the playoffs that are hard to push away. He handles that pressure just fine.

 

Later in 2003, he's in the World Series now. He's playing in Yankee Freaking Stadium for Game 1 of the World Series in New York City, the Media Capital of the World. He handles that pressure just fine and goes 1-for-4 in game 1.

 

Now it's 2007, and he recently signed a deal with the Cubs. His team rallied from a dismal season to win a cheap division title, and now they face another division winner with five more wins. He's got a World Series ring and has played in three postseason series to this point. But get this, the fans he performs in front of really, really want his team to win, unlike all the other times he's played in front of fans. And the media has asked a few questions that imply they might not win. Oh noes, the pressure is too much now! He can't handle it!

[abuck1220]

jeez, that was a lot of typing for nothing.

 

there is obviously a difference in pressure between the nlcs and rancho cucamonga. quit making dexter's ridiculous position look good by being even more ridiculous yourself.

[imb]

I don't mean to sound like I'm making excuses, but didn't the Cubs lead early in the Arizona series and in game 1 of the Dodgers series?

 

I mean, you're taking two three-game series spread out over a 365-day period and acting like it's proof of "anti-clutch" or whatever, when no one in this thread is denying it exists. Well, except maybe Kyle, but you know how that goes.

[17 Seconds]

Have anything that proves that Megan Fox is hotter than Rosie O'Donnell?

 

Go ask some athletes their opinion. Should you ever actually meet one, you'll learn why your stance is ridiculous.

 

Derrek Lee was born in Sacramento, California. I don't know his background, but presumably he grew up playing baseball and other sports. He was pretty good at baseball, and as time wore on the accolades starting piling up. Scouts came around. Now there's a chance that he could actually play professional baseball for a living, but he has to perform well in front of them. If he doesn't, he goes to college on some mediocre athletic scholarship and goes off to be a high-school gym teacher for $50k/year for the rest of his life? That pressure he handles just fine.

 

He gets his signing bonus, which is nice but probably runs out pretty fast. After a decent but not spectacular rookie ball season, he's 19 and in Ranch Cucamonga of the Cal League. If he doesn't perform well this season, he's on his way to bust status really fast. If he does, he's still on the major-league tract and might make millions of dollar some day, revolutionizing life for his children and family for generations. That pressure he handles just fine.

 

In 1997 and 1998 with the Padres and Marlins, he's got to prove he can hit big-league pitching, all while learning to live the big-league lifestyle, which is incredibly stressful. If he doesn't hit, he's going to get labeled a AAAA player and spend the rest of his life bouncing around the minors and watching people around him live the dream he's not quite good enough to reach. He handles that pressure just fine.

 

In 2003, he's an established big-league player. But now he's in the playoffs. He's got national TV, the chance to move on in the postseason and live every player's dream. He knows reputations are made in the playoffs that are hard to push away. He handles that pressure just fine.

 

Later in 2003, he's in the World Series now. He's playing in Yankee Freaking Stadium for Game 1 of the World Series in New York City, the Media Capital of the World. He handles that pressure just fine and goes 1-for-4 in game 1.

 

Now it's 2007, and he recently signed a deal with the Cubs. His team rallied from a dismal season to win a cheap division title, and now they face another division winner with five more wins. He's got a World Series ring and has played in three postseason series to this point. But get this, the fans he performs in front of really, really want his team to win, unlike all the other times he's played in front of fans. And the media has asked a few questions that imply they might not win. Oh noes, the pressure is too much now! He can't handle it!

 

Congrats. You just set the record for most words typed without actually making any points.

 

Like I said before... if you're going to pretend like there isn't more pressure on the Cubs and that they didn't choke at all in the last 2 postseasons, then there's nothing more to say. It's like arguing with somebody who insists that the sky isn't blue.

 

BTW, Derrek Lee hit well in the last 2 postseasons.

[17 Seconds]

jeez, that was a lot of typing for nothing.

 

there is obviously a difference in pressure between the nlcs and rancho cucamonga. quit making dexter's ridiculous position look good by being even more ridiculous yourself.

 

What position is ridiculous? That the Cubs have extra pressure on them in the postseason?

 

Seriously, that's ridiculous?

[17 Seconds]

I don't mean to sound like I'm making excuses, but didn't the Cubs lead early in the Arizona series and in game 1 of the Dodgers series?

 

I mean, you're taking two three-game series spread out over a 365-day period and acting like it's proof of "anti-clutch" or whatever, when no one in this thread is denying it exists. Well, except maybe Kyle, but you know how that goes.

 

One swing of the bat each series is pretty insignificant when looking at the overall performance of each series.

 

I just don't see how any rational person can say that their performance the last 2 postseasons had nothing to do with not being able to handle pressure. I'm not saying that it was the only reason, I'm just saying that it was obviously a factor.

 

I honestly thought this was pretty much common sense.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

jeez, that was a lot of typing for nothing.

 

there is obviously a difference in pressure between the nlcs and rancho cucamonga. quit making dexter's ridiculous position look good by being even more ridiculous yourself.

 

You are right. There is *way* more pressure in the minor leagues.

 

The difference between performing in the playoffs and not is the way a few fans and writers think of you for a few years until you are retired and they all forget.

 

The difference between performing in Ranch Cucamonga and not changes the path of your entire life.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

jeez, that was a lot of typing for nothing.

 

there is obviously a difference in pressure between the nlcs and rancho cucamonga. quit making dexter's ridiculous position look good by being even more ridiculous yourself.

 

What position is ridiculous? That the Cubs have extra pressure on them in the postseason?

 

Seriously, that's ridiculous?

 

Yes. It's complete fan-based myopia.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Congrats. You just set the record for most words typed without actually making any points.

 

Like I said before... if you're going to pretend like there isn't more pressure on the Cubs and that they didn't choke at all in the last 2 postseasons, then there's nothing more to say. It's like arguing with somebody who insists that the sky isn't blue.

 

BTW, Derrek Lee hit well in the last 2 postseasons.

 

The point is, every player on the Cubs roster has proven they can handle pressure over and over and over again.

 

You are mistaking your intense desire/need to see them win with with pressure they must be feeling.

[imb]

I don't mean to sound like I'm making excuses, but didn't the Cubs lead early in the Arizona series and in game 1 of the Dodgers series?

 

I mean, you're taking two three-game series spread out over a 365-day period and acting like it's proof of "anti-clutch" or whatever, when no one in this thread is denying it exists. Well, except maybe Kyle, but you know how that goes.

 

One swing of the bat each series is pretty insignificant when looking at the overall performance of each series.

 

I just don't see how any rational person can say that their performance the last 2 postseasons had nothing to do with not being able to handle pressure. I'm not saying that it was the only reason, I'm just saying that it was obviously a factor.

 

I honestly thought this was pretty much common sense.

 

those 6 games equal like 2 percent of the 330 or so that the cubs played in those two years. i don't see why 6 proves the roster is full of chokers when it performed so well as a whole the other 98 percent of the time.

 

there's more pressure on them in the playoffs, but there's plenty of pressure in the regular season, too. i don't know how much more comes into play in a playoff series, but i can't imagine it's enough to break the camel's back and turn them into stumbling idiots all of a sudden.

[17 Seconds]

jeez, that was a lot of typing for nothing.

 

there is obviously a difference in pressure between the nlcs and rancho cucamonga. quit making dexter's ridiculous position look good by being even more ridiculous yourself.

 

You are right. There is *way* more pressure in the minor leagues.

 

The difference between performing in the playoffs and not is the way a few fans and writers think of you for a few years until you are retired and they all forget.

 

The difference between performing in Ranch Cucamonga and not changes the path of your entire life.

 

Your whole comparison is weak.

 

In the minors you have more than 3 games to prove yourself. In the playoffs it's do die immediately.

 

Just a litttttttle bit more urgency in the playoffs, as compared to a full season worth of playing time. Just a tad

[17 Seconds]

I don't mean to sound like I'm making excuses, but didn't the Cubs lead early in the Arizona series and in game 1 of the Dodgers series?

 

I mean, you're taking two three-game series spread out over a 365-day period and acting like it's proof of "anti-clutch" or whatever, when no one in this thread is denying it exists. Well, except maybe Kyle, but you know how that goes.

 

One swing of the bat each series is pretty insignificant when looking at the overall performance of each series.

 

I just don't see how any rational person can say that their performance the last 2 postseasons had nothing to do with not being able to handle pressure. I'm not saying that it was the only reason, I'm just saying that it was obviously a factor.

 

I honestly thought this was pretty much common sense.

 

those 6 games equal like 2 percent of the 330 or so that the cubs played in those two years. i don't see why 6 proves the roster is full of chokers when it performed so well as a whole the other 98 percent of the time.

 

there's more pressure on them in the playoffs, but there's plenty of pressure in the regular season, too. i don't know how much more comes into play in a playoff series, but i can't imagine it's enough to break the camel's back and turn them into stumbling idiots all of a sudden.

 

come on. the playoffs are a completely different beast. everything is amplified..

 

if you lose 3 games in a row in the regular season, big deal. it's going to happen. you shrug it off and come back. you don't start thinking "holy crap, we're almost eliminated"... because you're not. you have all the time in the world to turn it around.

 

in the playoffs, you lose 3 straight games and it's over.

 

you really can't compare a 6 month long, 162 game regular season to a postseason series where you're forced to win IMMEDIATELY

 

it's pretty much the same reason why kyle's "there was so much pressure on them in the minors and blah blah" argument is weak. you have plenty of time to get it going. if you're good enough, you'll eventually show it and you'll get noticed.

Edited August 11, 2009 by 17 Seconds

[Derwood]

Didn't the 2004 BoSox have the same amount of pressure on them? Was that team magically full of clutchy gamers who could overcome the massive pressure?