Tim Lincecum...

[laurens]

...is a stud. Dan Haren probably deserves the Cy Young, but I think it might go to Lincecum. He's now struck out 8 or more batters in 10 consecutive starts, which brings his season totals to 191 over 156.2 innings. If his dmechanics don't cause him to have injuries in the future, he could be a Randy Johnson-like pitcher (weird delivery, top notch fastball, lots of K's) for years to come.

[RedVerbs]

I think he's surpassed Haren for the Cy Young favorite.

[17 Seconds]

I think he's surpassed Haren for the Cy Young favorite.

 

only if the voters are morons. which they are.

[Z38Cubs]

Haren only has 8 wins. That means the voters think that pitchers like Jason Marquis and Jamie Moyer are more deserving.

[mcgoobs]

Not to get all Peter Gammons, but how cool is it looking at the ages of the top 10 in ERA in the NL and AL?

 

Matt Cain 2.12 ERA, age 24

Tim Lincecum 2.18 ERA, age 25

Dan Haren 2/19 ERA, age 28

Jair Jurrjens 2.69 ERA, age 23

Clayton Kershaw 2.76 ERA, age 21

Josh Johnson 2.87 ERA, age 25

 

Zack Greinke 2.08 ERA, age 25

Edwin Jackson 2.64 ERA, age 25

King Felix 2.78 ERA, age 23

Justin Verlander 3.16 ERA, age 26

Brad Bergesen 3.43 ERA, age 23

[chuckywang]

Infinitely cooler if one of them were on our team.

[artvandalay]

I think he's surpassed Haren for the Cy Young favorite.

 

only if the voters are morons. which they are.

 

Except that the only stat Haren has an edge on is whip which is a result of how hit-lucky he's been this year (.251 BaBIP). The fact that he's still slightly behind Lincecum in ERA on the season despite posting a ridiculously high unsustainable LOB% of 82.3% up to this point should tell you something about the two of them. If that stuff doesn't convince you, maybe the fact that Lincecum's FIP is at 1.96 right now while Haren's is 2.80 will do it.

 

Haren is a great pitcher, probably top 5 in all of MLB, but he's not better than Lincecum and he hasn't BEEN better than Lincecum this year.

[A-Cal]

Not to get all Peter Gammons, but how cool is it looking at the ages of the top 10 in ERA in the NL and AL?

 

Matt Cain 2.12 ERA, age 24

Tim Lincecum 2.18 ERA, age 25

Dan Haren 2/19 ERA, age 28

Jair Jurrjens 2.69 ERA, age 23

Clayton Kershaw 2.76 ERA, age 21

Josh Johnson 2.87 ERA, age 25

 

Zack Greinke 2.08 ERA, age 25

Edwin Jackson 2.64 ERA, age 25

King Felix 2.78 ERA, age 23

Justin Verlander 3.16 ERA, age 26

Brad Bergesen 3.43 ERA, age 23

 

got to add Beckett, just turned 29 - 3.27

[laurens]

Infinitely cooler if one of them were on our team.

 

Randy Wells 2.82 ERA, age 26

[shnsajax]

Its hard to believe that Felix is only 23 with the amount of experience he already has.

[third eye]

Its hard to believe that Felix is only 23 with the amount of experience he already has.

 

Yeah, and unless Seattle can get him extended, he'll hit free agency entering his prime at 25. That will be a monster contract. How old was Z when he got is current deal?

[Guest]

Its hard to believe that Felix is only 23 with the amount of experience he already has.

 

Yeah, and unless Seattle can get him extended, he'll hit free agency entering his prime at 25. That will be a monster contract. How old was Z when he got is current deal?

 

Z was 26 when he signed it.

[NonProfitCow]

Not to get all Peter Gammons, but how cool is it looking at the ages of the top 10 in ERA in the NL and AL?

 

Matt Cain 2.12 ERA, age 24

Tim Lincecum 2.18 ERA, age 25

Dan Haren 2/19 ERA, age 28

Jair Jurrjens 2.69 ERA, age 23

Clayton Kershaw 2.76 ERA, age 21

Josh Johnson 2.87 ERA, age 25

 

Zack Greinke 2.08 ERA, age 25

Edwin Jackson 2.64 ERA, age 25

King Felix 2.78 ERA, age 23

Justin Verlander 3.16 ERA, age 26

Brad Bergesen 3.43 ERA, age 23

 

got to add Beckett, just turned 29 - 3.27

Adam Wainwright 2.80 ERA, age 27

[NCCubFan]

Not to get all Peter Gammons, but how cool is it looking at the ages of the top 10 in ERA in the NL and AL?

 

Matt Cain 2.12 ERA, age 24

Tim Lincecum 2.18 ERA, age 25

Dan Haren 2/19 ERA, age 28

Jair Jurrjens 2.69 ERA, age 23

Clayton Kershaw 2.76 ERA, age 21

Josh Johnson 2.87 ERA, age 25

 

Zack Greinke 2.08 ERA, age 25

Edwin Jackson 2.64 ERA, age 25

King Felix 2.78 ERA, age 23

Justin Verlander 3.16 ERA, age 26

Brad Bergesen 3.43 ERA, age 23

 

got to add Beckett, just turned 29 - 3.27

Adam Wainwright 2.80 ERA, age 27

Bud Norris, 0.00 ERA, age 24.

[Derwood]

Not to get all Peter Gammons, but how cool is it looking at the ages of the top 10 in ERA in the NL and AL?

 

Matt Cain 2.12 ERA, age 24

Tim Lincecum 2.18 ERA, age 25

Dan Haren 2/19 ERA, age 28

Jair Jurrjens 2.69 ERA, age 23

Clayton Kershaw 2.76 ERA, age 21

Josh Johnson 2.87 ERA, age 25

 

Zack Greinke 2.08 ERA, age 25

Edwin Jackson 2.64 ERA, age 25

King Felix 2.78 ERA, age 23

Justin Verlander 3.16 ERA, age 26

Brad Bergesen 3.43 ERA, age 23

 

got to add Beckett, just turned 29 - 3.27

Adam Wainwright 2.80 ERA, age 27

Bud Norris, 0.00 ERA, age 24.

 

he gave up a run to the Cubs last week

[NCCubFan]

Not to get all Peter Gammons, but how cool is it looking at the ages of the top 10 in ERA in the NL and AL?

 

Matt Cain 2.12 ERA, age 24

Tim Lincecum 2.18 ERA, age 25

Dan Haren 2/19 ERA, age 28

Jair Jurrjens 2.69 ERA, age 23

Clayton Kershaw 2.76 ERA, age 21

Josh Johnson 2.87 ERA, age 25

 

Zack Greinke 2.08 ERA, age 25

Edwin Jackson 2.64 ERA, age 25

King Felix 2.78 ERA, age 23

Justin Verlander 3.16 ERA, age 26

Brad Bergesen 3.43 ERA, age 23

 

got to add Beckett, just turned 29 - 3.27

Adam Wainwright 2.80 ERA, age 27

Bud Norris, 0.00 ERA, age 24.

 

he gave up a run to the Cubs last week

Yep; I forgot about that relief outing. 0.90 ERA; still not too shabby.

[17 Seconds]

I think he's surpassed Haren for the Cy Young favorite.

 

only if the voters are morons. which they are.

 

Except that the only stat Haren has an edge on is whip which is a result of how hit-lucky he's been this year (.251 BaBIP). The fact that he's still slightly behind Lincecum in ERA on the season despite posting a ridiculously high unsustainable LOB% of 82.3% up to this point should tell you something about the two of them. If that stuff doesn't convince you, maybe the fact that Lincecum's FIP is at 1.96 right now while Haren's is 2.80 will do it.

 

Haren is a great pitcher, probably top 5 in all of MLB, but he's not better than Lincecum and he hasn't BEEN better than Lincecum this year.

 

and what is lincecum's LOB %? not much better. oh, and haren also has a better ld%

 

anyways, stop looking at era. haren has given up fewer hits, fewer walks, and has a better strikeout to walk ratio. babip is not a stat that erases all those. not to mention that haren isn't a strikeout pitcher like lincecum, so of course he's going to get weaker contact on balls put in play.

[artvandalay]

I'm not sure one construes a starter with a K/9 of 8.88 on the season as "not a strikeout pitcher".

 

40 points of babip under what one could consider a repeatable non-fluke number IS a pretty big thing, especially when you consider that Lincecum is 20 points over the expected average. Yes, lincecum walks about 1 more batter per 9 IP than Haren, but that is dwarfed by the fact that Haren has served up 14 HR this year to the 6 given up by Lincecum. When you look at the 3 things that pitchers can control the most (HR, BB, K), Lincecum blows Haren out of the water.

 

Also, yes, 5% difference on LOB% is a huge difference that would add at least another half of a run onto Haren's ERA if it were even normalized to what Lincecum's has been this year.

[DanzaSlap]

I take issue with the whole "3 true outcomes" thing. If a guy throws a good hard sinker, and gets a ton of ground ball outs (I don't watch Haren enough to know if he does that, I'm just making a general point), shouldn't get some credit for that? And can't he control the quality of contact a guy gets on a given pitch by controlling the quality of the pitch itself?

[17 Seconds]

I'm not sure one construes a starter with a K/9 of 8.88 on the season as "not a strikeout pitcher".

 

i knew that quote would be confused. i said he's not a strikeout pitcherl ike lincecum, meaning he's not at that level. he's not a strikeout machine like lincecum. i never meant that haren wasn't a strikeout pitcher.

 

When you look at the 3 things that pitchers can control the most (HR, BB, K), Lincecum blows Haren out of the water.

 

wait, really? then how come haren has a significantly better k/bb than lincecum? how come haren is allowing close to half the amount of walks as lincecum?

 

as for babip, i think people go overboard on it. guess what? if you make good pitches that induce weak contact, your babip is going to be low. to discredit a guy because of babip is kind of silly. in pedro's legendary 2000, he had a .253 babip. i don't see people discrediting that season.

 

Also, yes, 5% difference on LOB% is a huge difference that would add at least another half of a run onto Haren's ERA if it were even normalized to what Lincecum's has been this year.

 

like i said, i don't really care. you shouldn't be using era in the first place

[Gingerballs Lives]

I take issue with the whole "3 true outcomes" thing. If a guy throws a good hard sinker, and gets a ton of ground ball outs (I don't watch Haren enough to know if he does that, I'm just making a general point), shouldn't get some credit for that? And can't he control the quality of contact a guy gets on a given pitch by controlling the quality of the pitch itself?

 

 

Right, that's why a pitcher like Lincecum is even more impressive, because he limits the amount of opportunities for his defense to screw up by striking out more guys. He takes care of more outs without even involving the defense so he's more valuable.

[RedVerbs]

Not to get all Peter Gammons, but how cool is it looking at the ages of the top 10 in ERA in the NL and AL?

 

Matt Cain 2.12 ERA, age 24

Tim Lincecum 2.18 ERA, age 25

Dan Haren 2/19 ERA, age 28

Jair Jurrjens 2.69 ERA, age 23

Clayton Kershaw 2.76 ERA, age 21

Josh Johnson 2.87 ERA, age 25

 

Zack Greinke 2.08 ERA, age 25

Edwin Jackson 2.64 ERA, age 25

King Felix 2.78 ERA, age 23

Justin Verlander 3.16 ERA, age 26

Brad Bergesen 3.43 ERA, age 23

 

got to add Beckett, just turned 29 - 3.27

 

And Wainwright.