Why the Cubs can't get Halladay

[SouthSideRyan]

You can't just look at who we got for our prospects, all that does is show that we hyped them well enough to fool another team into trading for them. That may be good GM'ing, but it's not good player development.

 

Your latter point may stand, but the reason the other team traded for a player isn't necessarily just hype from the original team. Maybe Florida and Pittsburgh genuinely saw what the Cubs scouts saw in Choi and Hill and felt they could produce at a high level. Just because a player doesn't pan out doesn't mean he was all hype - the talent could be there.

 

Choi did perform at a high level for the Marlins. I'd love to know exactly what happened to his bat. Was it a matter of adjusting, or were there injuries involved? I know Tracy fucked with him in LA, but it doesn't explain his power just disappearing by '06.

[dew1679666265]

I'm quite sure Dontrelle Willis wasn't really helping any of our rankings.

 

Man, didn't realize he was traded while still in low A. I thought he had made AA by then.

 

He was a top 50 ranked prospect in 2003, though.

[illiniguy]

You can't just look at who we got for our prospects, all that does is show that we hyped them well enough to fool another team into trading for them. That may be good GM'ing, but it's not good player development.

 

Your latter point may stand, but the reason the other team traded for a player isn't necessarily just hype from the original team. Maybe Florida and Pittsburgh genuinely saw what the Cubs scouts saw in Choi and Hill and felt they could produce at a high level. Just because a player doesn't pan out doesn't mean he was all hype - the talent could be there.

 

Choi did perform at a high level for the Marlins. I'd love to know exactly what happened to his bat. Was it a matter of adjusting, or were there injuries involved? I know Tracy [expletive] with him in LA, but it doesn't explain his power just disappearing by '06.

Maybe a steroid guy?

[dew1679666265]

You can't just look at who we got for our prospects, all that does is show that we hyped them well enough to fool another team into trading for them. That may be good GM'ing, but it's not good player development.

 

Your latter point may stand, but the reason the other team traded for a player isn't necessarily just hype from the original team. Maybe Florida and Pittsburgh genuinely saw what the Cubs scouts saw in Choi and Hill and felt they could produce at a high level. Just because a player doesn't pan out doesn't mean he was all hype - the talent could be there.

 

Choi did perform at a high level for the Marlins. I'd love to know exactly what happened to his bat. Was it a matter of adjusting, or were there injuries involved? I know Tracy [expletive] with him in LA, but it doesn't explain his power just disappearing by '06.

 

Yeah, he had one good season for Florida at age 25 - .270/.388/.495/.883 - but then didn't really produce after that. I was always a big Choi fan, but I have no idea what happened.

[Guest]

Has Flaherty already been moved?

 

I don't think so. I just forgot about him when I made that list off the top of my head.

 

Flaherty is already splitting time with Junior Lake at Peoria. His move to full time second base really is coming soon (it's probably just a matter of when he starts playing at the same level as Hak-Ju Lee or Starlin Castro). Junior Lake is a better SS prospect in the organization (despite the errors and high strikeout rate).

[Guest]

Why the Cubs can't get Halladay

 

by erik316wttn:

 

Their farm system sucks.

 

The end.

Am I the only person that thinks our farm has taken some big steps forward this year, and could actually be average by league standards next year?

 

No, you're not. I expect the likes of BA and BP to rate the Cubs system somewhere in the teens this offseason. The 2008 draft has been a huge boost to the system, as has the progress of international signees like Starlin Castro, Hak-Ju Lee and Ryan Searle.

[dew1679666265]

Has Flaherty already been moved?

 

I don't think so. I just forgot about him when I made that list off the top of my head.

 

Flaherty is already splitting time with Junior Lake at Peoria. His move to full time second base really is coming soon (it's probably just a matter of when he starts playing at the same level as Hak-Ju Lee or Starlin Castro). Junior Lake is a better SS prospect in the organization (despite the errors and high strikeout rate).

 

Thanks.

[questionmarkgrace]

I think scouting and player development are the biggest problems with this organization. The talent scouts cannot accurately gage who has major league potential and the player development people aren't helping those with talent move along the ranks. Case in point Tyler Colvin. He has some talent but to project has as starting outfielder was a stretch for every team. He really could have been a second or even third round pick. Nonetheless, our system has done nothing to mould him into a player and his k/bb ratio and overall approach at the plate festers. These are the same scouts that told Lou that Soto and Theriot were not a major leaguers. We cant scout free agents either and playing in a perpetual win-now mode doesn't help; although some how the Bo Sox, Yanks, and Angels seem to pull it off.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

I'm still a big believer in Hee Seop Choi. I think if handled properly he really could have been a good player.

 

Isn't he out of baseball?

 

I agree though...Choi got pretty screwed during his time in the majors.

[RedFlash]

I'm still a big believer in Hee Seop Choi. I think if handled properly he really could have been a good player.

 

Isn't he out of baseball?

 

I agree though...Choi got pretty screwed during his time in the majors.

 

Choi currently plays for the Kia Tigers in the South Korean KBO League.

 

And talk about feeling old, HS Choi is already 30 years old.

[Guest]

The amazing part is that it doesn't seem like that long ago that the Cubs had one of the top farm systems in baseball. Then again, if I recall correctly, that was when we had guys like Patterson, Dubois, and Pie who all never panned out. So it wasn't actually one of the best, it was just rated as such.

Pie wasn't in the group.

Here's off the top of my head who I remember us having.

Corey Patterson-he flopped it happens.

Mark Prior-I would say his '03 and '04 made him worth the hype.

Bobby Hill-He turned into Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton. That worked out well for us.

Hee Seop Choi-He turned into DLee. That worked out well for us.

Carlos Zambrano

Juan Cruz-we should have been more patient with him.

David Kelton-He flopped it happens.

Angel Guzman-having a great year, really wish he would have stayed healthy.

 

So basically even though you claim that whole group of guys flopped, we actually got productive 3 and 4 hitters who play plus defense at the corners, an ace, and a great bullpen arm.

 

It seems like all the "he flopped it happens" guys are all hitters who never developed plate discipline, correct?

Actually, no.

 

Hill had very good plate discipline in the minors, but developed back issues and had his production suffer.

Choi had great discipline (though some contact issues), but was really never the same after he broke his wrist in AAA.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I know the Cubs have had their share of flops, but Im fairly confident that if you were to talk to fans of most teams with knowledge of their farm system, theyd be able to produce a similar list of flops.

[shnsajax]

I'm still a big believer in Hee Seop Choi. I think if handled properly he really could have been a good player.

 

Isn't he out of baseball?

 

I agree though...Choi got pretty screwed during his time in the majors.

 

He didn't seem to be the same player after that nasty head injury I think during the Yankees series.