You're All Racist

[XZero771679666304]

I don't see how population size matters much. Are you arguing that Chicago has a higher percentage of racists relative to its population than the other cities CubinNY listed? It's not like Wrigley holds more people than the average MLB stadium.

 

Population size matters to a degree, mostly because the larger the population, the higher the percentage of minorities, generally speaking. For a number of reasons, minority populations are higher in more urban areas. And greater numbers leads to more interracial exposure, which leads to a relatively higher degree of tolerance.

 

It just happens that Chicago seems to have resisted full integration more than the other big cities. I used to live in Hyde Park, so I have seen first hand just how stark the contrasts within the city (and even a very small area) can be. I also spent time in NYC, and didn't get the same feeling, at least not to the extend I did in Chicago.

 

In smaller cities, it is easier to shove the minorities off into a corner and ignore them, so to speak.

[Sammy Sofa]

The sad fact is that Chicago is the most segregated major city in America.

Not even close.

 

Chicago being the most segregated major city in America has been a well-established point for quite some time now.

[1908]

Assuming your hypothesis is correct, that more exposure to minorities leads to more racial tolerance, how does that support the idea that Cubs fans are the most racist fans in baseball? I could see someone arguing that Chicago isn't as racially tolerant as it should be given it's size, but it's still more tolerant than a lot of other cities with professional sports teams.

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't see how population size matters much. Are you arguing that Chicago has a higher percentage of racists relative to its population than the other cities CubinNY listed? It's not like Wrigley holds more people than the average MLB stadium.

 

Population size matters to a degree, mostly because the larger the population, the higher the percentage of minorities, generally speaking. For a number of reasons, minority populations are higher in more urban areas. And greater numbers leads to more interracial exposure, which leads to a relatively higher degree of tolerance.

 

It just happens that Chicago seems to have resisted full integration more than the other big cities. I used to live in Hyde Park, so I have seen first hand just how stark the contrasts within the city (and even a very small area) can be. I also spent time in NYC, and didn't get the same feeling, at least not to the extend I did in Chicago.

 

In smaller cities, it is easier to shove the minorities off into a corner and ignore them, so to speak.

 

then you haven't spent significant time in NYC. Chicago has the "city of neighborhoods" reputation that inevitably leads to different "sections". But NYC has the same thing. The dividing lines between the upper west/east sides and Harlem are stark. The areas of brooklyn are very strictly broken up. You take certain subway lines and it's mostly white people, others are mostly black and still others are made up of hispanic.

 

What about LA? Nobody can tell me that's a highly integrated city.

[FergieJ31]

For what it's worth:

 

http://www.censusscope.org/us/print_rank_dissimilarity_white_black.html

 

SEGREGATION: DISSIMILARITY INDICES

The dissimilarity index is the most commonly used measure of segregation between two groups, reflecting their relative distributions across neighborhoods within a city or metropolitan area. It can range in value from 0, indicating complete integration, to 100, indicating complete segregation. In most cities and metro areas, however, the values are somewhere between those extremes.

 

Although it is possible to average the data and to identify some regional trends, it is important to note that there is no single way that residential segregation functions in America. One can find instances of both high and low levels of segregation for every combination of racial groups.

 

Also for what it's worth, I've been going to Wrigley for 25 years. I've seen plenty of public drunkenness, fist fights, girl fights, vicious over-the-top taunting of opposing fans, pot-smoking, a guy hitting a home run with his gf in the upper deck (if you know what I mean), a couple of robberies, a reporter doused with a Gatorade jug filled with water, but I can't recall a single racial epithet of any kind - ever. Just lucky I guess.

[SpongeWorthy]

For what it's worth:

 

http://www.censusscope.org/us/print_rank_dissimilarity_white_black.html

 

SEGREGATION: DISSIMILARITY INDICES

The dissimilarity index is the most commonly used measure of segregation between two groups, reflecting their relative distributions across neighborhoods within a city or metropolitan area. It can range in value from 0, indicating complete integration, to 100, indicating complete segregation. In most cities and metro areas, however, the values are somewhere between those extremes.

 

Although it is possible to average the data and to identify some regional trends, it is important to note that there is no single way that residential segregation functions in America. One can find instances of both high and low levels of segregation for every combination of racial groups.

 

a guy hitting a home run with his gf in the upper deck (if you know what I mean), a couple of robberies

 

I'd like to hear that story.

[Guest]

The sad fact is that Chicago is the most segregated major city in America.

Not even close.

 

Chicago being the most segregated major city in America has been a well-established point for quite some time now.

That's BS and big load of it. I'd like to see a link or something. I mean it's just completely ridiculous when until very recently the entire South was completely segregated. You can take your pick of the following cities and see less integration

 

Atlanta

Charlotte

Montgomery

Miami

Jacksonville

Dallas

Houston

Memphis

Nashville

 

Don't give me the crap that none of the above are "major" cities. Have you ever been to Boston or Philly? In Boston and Philly they had to bus in kids from the burbs to integrate the schools systems. NYC isn't terribly integrated either but I would imagine it's better than Chicago. I've never been to LA but I could imagine that LA is less integrated than Chicago.

[Cynosure]

Didn't read the end of page 1 of this thread.

 

Jenkins was on the Afternoon Saloon this evening and he said this article is a load of crap and he never heard of any of the black players getting harassed during his playing days with racial slurs.

 

I know Jacque Jones got some slurs thrown at him... but that seems about it.

 

I sit in the bleachers 10 times a year or more and have NEVER heard ONE racial slur from ANYONE in the past 10 years.

[questionmarkgrace]

Hey Cub in NY

 

it is a well established historical fact that the grid layout of chicago has at times fostered "the most segregated city in america." I would imagine now that it is a bit better here now but probably still the worst. Historically even before freedmen, ex-slaves and their relative came to the city, roughly between 1880-1940, the city was extremely segregated into neighborhoods of european ethnicities. Irish were in the south, Italian and greek to the west, German in the near loop areas, Polish in the logan square area. These borders became physical lines ethnicities did not cross, the rememenants and connotations of which continue to the present day. Look at the current ethnic and economic disparity between the south side and the north side, its pretty drastic. Hundreds of sociology books have been written on the subject.

[Sammy Sofa]

The sad fact is that Chicago is the most segregated major city in America.

Not even close.

 

Chicago being the most segregated major city in America has been a well-established point for quite some time now.

That's BS and big load of it. I'd like to see a link or something. I mean it's just completely ridiculous when until very recently the entire South was completely segregated. You can take your pick of the following cities and see less integration

 

Atlanta

Charlotte

Montgomery

Miami

Jacksonville

Dallas

Houston

Memphis

Nashville

 

Don't give me the crap that none of the above are "major" cities. Have you ever been to Boston or Philly? In Boston and Philly they had to bus in kids from the burbs to integrate the schools systems. NYC isn't terribly integrated either but I would imagine it's better than Chicago. I've never been to LA but I could imagine that LA is less integrated than Chicago.

 

Just Google search "most segregated city Chicago" and look at how many links have Chicago at the top.

 

I'm surprised that you hadn't heard this before. As QMG just pointed out, it's not like the city planners and government have been subtle or discreet about it.

 

You also keep pointing out Southern cities as if they must automatically be more segregated. Southern and Northern racism/segregation were very different things. Ghettos, "black belts," "Bronzevilles" and sundown towns were very much the product of the North as opposed to the South. The South had Jim Crow, but didn't even come close to the degree of purposeful physical seperation (blacks kept out of or driven out of entire towns and cities and the creation of urban ghettos, the latter which basically did not exist in the South before they showed up in the North, primarily in Chicago, Detroit and New York) of whites and blacks that originated in the North in the wake of the first Great Migration due to WW1.

 

Blacks certainly had their own neighborhoods in the South, but interaction between whites and blacks was an every day thing, socially and due to work. Northern cities after the Great Migration attempted to completely seperate whites and blacks in all walks of life, hence the massive and obvious segregation in Chicago that continues to this day.

[Lbacker]

'I've heard about that,'' he said. ''But, I mean, what can you do? You just hope that ushers, security do their job and kick those people out of the stadium. Because there's no place for that anywhere.

 

Agreed. :good:

[Cynosure]

'I've heard about that,'' he said. ''But, I mean, what can you do? You just hope that ushers, security do their job and kick those people out of the stadium. Because there's no place for that anywhere.

 

Agreed. :good:

 

He's just mad that black people don't play Yahtzee.

[Guest]

Just Google search "most segregated city Chicago" and look at how many links have Chicago at the top.

Turns out I was quite wrong, This is the most segregated city

 

But just as I suspected, Chicago isn't even in the top five.

 

It took me all of 30 key strokes to find this out.

 

Can we put this nonsense to bed now?

[Sammy Sofa]

Just Google search "most segregated city Chicago" and look at how many links have Chicago at the top.

Turns out I was quite wrong, This is the most segregated city

 

But just as I suspected, Chicago isn't even in the top five.

 

It took me all of 30 key strokes to find this out.

 

Can we put this nonsense to bed now?

 

It's not nonsense. It's a well-established historical and sociological idea. Like I said, look at how many links have Chicago at the top. I never said all studies would have Chicago at the top. If the city has fallen from the top in recent years (even though I know many studies and experts still feel it's up there), hey great...that doesn't erase the better part of a century where it was the most visibly segregated major city in America. The social ramifications of such a situation doesnt just vanish. You're ignoring all the other links for the sake of one (from 2002) that backs up your point.

 

I really don't know why you're acting like this is some insulting revelation. Chicago has never made any effort to hide how segregated it is, and this goes beyond just blacks and whites.

[ZMovieman]

Just Google search "most segregated city Chicago" and look at how many links have Chicago at the top.

Turns out I was quite wrong, This is the most segregated city

 

But just as I suspected, Chicago isn't even in the top five.

 

It took me all of 30 key strokes to find this out.

 

Can we put this nonsense to bed now?

 

It's not nonsense. It's a well-established historical and sociological idea. Like I said, look at how many links have Chicago at the top. I never said all studies would have Chicago at the top. If the city has fallen from the top in recent years (even though I know many studies and experts still feel it's up there), hey great...that doesn't erase the better part of a century where it was the most visibly segregated major city in America. The social rammifications of such a situation doesnt just vanish. You're ignoring all the other links for the sake of one (from 2002) that backs up your point.

 

Take this for what it's worth, but I took some education classes at Marquette, where they emphasize urban education. I believe I remember hearing that, depending on the year, that Milwaukee, St. Louis, and Detroit are the most segregated. Again, that's just going off of memory, but the professor taught in both St. Louis and Milwaukee.

 

As for Chicago, there is no doubt in my mind that we are 'up there,' if only historically. But I'd make the argument that the larger the city, the more likely it is to make the segregation list. Again, just a theory, but it seems like a product of the system.

[Sammy Sofa]

Just Google search "most segregated city Chicago" and look at how many links have Chicago at the top.

Turns out I was quite wrong, This is the most segregated city

 

But just as I suspected, Chicago isn't even in the top five.

 

It took me all of 30 key strokes to find this out.

 

Can we put this nonsense to bed now?

 

It's not nonsense. It's a well-established historical and sociological idea. Like I said, look at how many links have Chicago at the top. I never said all studies would have Chicago at the top. If the city has fallen from the top in recent years (even though I know many studies and experts still feel it's up there), hey great...that doesn't erase the better part of a century where it was the most visibly segregated major city in America. The social rammifications of such a situation doesnt just vanish. You're ignoring all the other links for the sake of one (from 2002) that backs up your point.

 

Take this for what it's worth, but I took some education classes at Marquette, where they emphasize urban education. I believe I remember hearing that, depending on the year, that Milwaukee, St. Louis, and Detroit are the most segregated. Again, that's just going off of memory, but the professor taught in both St. Louis and Milwaukee.

 

As for Chicago, there is no doubt in my mind that we are 'up there,' if only historically. But I'd make the argument that the larger the city, the more likely it is to make the segregation list. Again, just a theory, but it seems like a product of the system.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Chicago has fallen off the top, but from the 1920's up into the 1990's it was typically the undisputed champ. My point is that even if it's not at the very top, it's still incredibly segregated (I can't imgine anyone who has been here or lived here would deny that) and that its history as arguably THE most segregated major American city for the betetr part of a century is going to define its racial dynamics to this day.

 

I guess we're coming down to dueling urban history classes, since mine have typically talked about Chicago as being at the top during the 20th Century.

[treebird]

DID ANYONE AT ALL ON EITHER SIDE OF THIS ARGUMENT SEE MY LINK ON THE BOTTOM OF PAGE ONE

[Blizzau]

DID ANYONE AT ALL ON EITHER SIDE OF THIS ARGUMENT SEE MY LINK ON THE BOTTOM OF PAGE ONE

 

I did, and it was the first logical, data-driven argument in this thread. People all have different, qualitative analyses based on their personal experiences. It was refreshing to see data supporting an argument.