2009 Chicago Bears offseason

[dew1679666265]

No, I think it means they are souring on him. Everyone knows Pace is not a long-term option. For them to delay Williams from playing on the left side after not allowing him to play over St. Clair last year, would be an ominous sign to me. It reminds me of the Cubs starting Shawn Estes and keeping Juan Cruz in the bullpen back in the day.

 

The difference being that Estes wasn't very good, while Pace is. And Williams is still starting, unlike Cruz.

 

I just don't really see how starting a player can constitute souring on him. I see it more as the Cubs calling up Vitters to play first instead of third. His true position is still third, but the need (in theory) is greater for him to play first.

[Soul]

No, I think it means they are souring on him. Everyone knows Pace is not a long-term option. For them to delay Williams from playing on the left side after not allowing him to play over St. Clair last year, would be an ominous sign to me. It reminds me of the Cubs starting Shawn Estes and keeping Juan Cruz in the bullpen back in the day.

 

The difference being that Estes wasn't very good, while Pace is. And Williams is still starting, unlike Cruz.

 

I just don't really see how starting a player can constitute souring on him. I see it more as the Cubs calling up Vitters to play first instead of third. His true position is still third, but the need (in theory) is greater for him to play first.

 

I wonder if the Bears are finding it necessary to promise Pace the LT job to entice him away from other teams, who might be offering contracts but telling him he would be @ RT.

 

The plan might be to play Pace at LT for a year, develop Williams as he starts @ RT, then over time convince Pace that the time is right to move to RT.

 

I don't know. I'm pretty surprised at the thought that Pace would be our LT rather than RT given his age, & wear and tear.

[dew1679666265]

No, I think it means they are souring on him. Everyone knows Pace is not a long-term option. For them to delay Williams from playing on the left side after not allowing him to play over St. Clair last year, would be an ominous sign to me. It reminds me of the Cubs starting Shawn Estes and keeping Juan Cruz in the bullpen back in the day.

 

The difference being that Estes wasn't very good, while Pace is. And Williams is still starting, unlike Cruz.

 

I just don't really see how starting a player can constitute souring on him. I see it more as the Cubs calling up Vitters to play first instead of third. His true position is still third, but the need (in theory) is greater for him to play first.

 

I wonder if the Bears are finding it necessary to promise Pace the LT job to entice him away from other teams, who might be offering contracts but telling him he would be @ RT.

 

The plan might be to play Pace at LT for a year, develop Williams as he starts @ RT, then over time convince Pace that the time is right to move to RT.

 

I don't know. I'm pretty surprised at the thought that Pace would be our LT rather than RT given his age, & wear and tear.

 

I see that as a possibility as well.

 

It just doesn't seem the best use of Pace to put him at LT, unless that's where he insists on playing.

[Butterscup1679666578]

I find it bizarre that a team could sour on a guy after just one season when they knew he was injured (or at least had a bad back) when they drafted him.

[RedFlash]

I find it bizarre that a team could sour on a guy after just one season when they knew he was injured (or at least had a bad back) when they drafted him.

 

I don't think that is the case. I think it is more about Smith knowing what Pace can do morseo then the Bears souring on Chris Williams. Personally, I believe the Bears really hope that Williams was a LT, but ultimately the Bears think Williams is better suted to be a RT as a pro.

[jersey cubs fan]

I find it bizarre that a team could sour on a guy after just one season when they knew he was injured (or at least had a bad back) when they drafted him.

 

The Bears gave up on Mark Bradley immediately once he got injured. Williams didn't make it to day 2 of practice. Football coaches routinely hold injuries against the player. It may be bizarre, and they may deny it, but it's true. They drafted Williams with the intention of starting him from day 1, but he got hurt in non-contact drills. The Bears struggled partly due to a weak line, Lovie was more or less forced to demote his best friend, his name went to the top of the chopping block. It would not surprise me in the least if Williams is no longer thought of the same way they thought of him on draft day.

[jersey cubs fan]

No, I think it means they are souring on him. Everyone knows Pace is not a long-term option. For them to delay Williams from playing on the left side after not allowing him to play over St. Clair last year, would be an ominous sign to me. It reminds me of the Cubs starting Shawn Estes and keeping Juan Cruz in the bullpen back in the day.

 

The difference being that Estes wasn't very good, while Pace is. And Williams is still starting, unlike Cruz.

 

I just don't really see how starting a player can constitute souring on him. I see it more as the Cubs calling up Vitters to play first instead of third. His true position is still third, but the need (in theory) is greater for him to play first.

 

That's not even close to the same. NFL doesn't have minor leagues. They also have a salary cap. Williams draft status and contract means he will play somewhere, regardless of how the coaches feel about him. But going from Day 1 left tackle starter to maybe moving over to RT and possibly competing with a guy cut by Cleveland looks to me like a coaching staff souring on a guy.

[Butterscup1679666578]

I find it bizarre that a team could sour on a guy after just one season when they knew he was injured (or at least had a bad back) when they drafted him.

 

The Bears gave up on Mark Bradley immediately once he got injured. Williams didn't make it to day 2 of practice. Football coaches routinely hold injuries against the player. It may be bizarre, and they may deny it, but it's true. They drafted Williams with the intention of starting him from day 1, but he got hurt in non-contact drills. The Bears struggled partly due to a weak line, Lovie was more or less forced to demote his best friend, his name went to the top of the chopping block. It would not surprise me in the least if Williams is no longer thought of the same way they thought of him on draft day.

 

It wouldn't surprise me, but it's a very poor way of running things. They knew they were drafting damaged goods. You can't take a guy who you know has a bad back, then hold it against him when he injures said back. I really hope it's what RedFlash thinks, but if it isn't it really shows how bad this organization is run.

[jersey cubs fan]

I find it bizarre that a team could sour on a guy after just one season when they knew he was injured (or at least had a bad back) when they drafted him.

 

I don't think that is the case. I think it is more about Smith knowing what Pace can do morseo then the Bears souring on Chris Williams. Personally, I believe the Bears really hope that Williams was a LT, but ultimately the Bears think Williams is better suted to be a RT as a pro.

 

Considering he was a lock to start at LT the day he was drafted, that alone would indicate they are souring on him.

[jersey cubs fan]

I find it bizarre that a team could sour on a guy after just one season when they knew he was injured (or at least had a bad back) when they drafted him.

 

The Bears gave up on Mark Bradley immediately once he got injured. Williams didn't make it to day 2 of practice. Football coaches routinely hold injuries against the player. It may be bizarre, and they may deny it, but it's true. They drafted Williams with the intention of starting him from day 1, but he got hurt in non-contact drills. The Bears struggled partly due to a weak line, Lovie was more or less forced to demote his best friend, his name went to the top of the chopping block. It would not surprise me in the least if Williams is no longer thought of the same way they thought of him on draft day.

 

It wouldn't surprise me, but it's a very poor way of running things. They knew they were drafting damaged goods. You can't take a guy who you know has a bad back, then hold it against him when he injures said back. I really hope it's what RedFlash thinks, but if it isn't it really shows how bad this organization is run.

 

We're talking about the Chicago Bears.

[Soul]

I find it bizarre that a team could sour on a guy after just one season when they knew he was injured (or at least had a bad back) when they drafted him.

 

The Bears gave up on Mark Bradley immediately once he got injured. Williams didn't make it to day 2 of practice. Football coaches routinely hold injuries against the player. It may be bizarre, and they may deny it, but it's true. They drafted Williams with the intention of starting him from day 1, but he got hurt in non-contact drills. The Bears struggled partly due to a weak line, Lovie was more or less forced to demote his best friend, his name went to the top of the chopping block. It would not surprise me in the least if Williams is no longer thought of the same way they thought of him on draft day.

 

Unfortunately, the reality is that coaches and GMs are routinely held accountable for teams that perform badly, regardless of how many injuries there were. So I believe what you say is at least partially true.

[soapy]

Is it possible we're jumping the gun on the Williams to RT thing? The two blurbs posted sounded like this scenario was somewhat writer speclation more than something coming from the Bears, unless I missed something.

[Southpaw191679666239]

My head hurts...

 

So I go out to get lunch and I have The Score on. Murph's show (I know, I know)... and he is taking calls and texts about "Should the Bears offer all 7 tradable picks to Denver for Cutler?" Calls are coming in not only saying "yes", but they should throw in Orton and Denver's choice of Urlacher/T.Harris to "stand out amongst other bidding teams".

 

:banghead:

[jersey cubs fan]

Another thing to consider is that Williams had a reputation for being a bit "soft" mentally. No killer instinct or something like that. The Bears were desperate for a tackle last year and maybe looked past it and focused on the "who is most likely capable of starting at LT from day one". It's possible that after having the kid around for a year, they see what others were worried about in regards to that lack of intensity.

[jersey cubs fan]

Is it possible we're jumping the gun on the Williams to RT thing? The two blurbs posted sounded like this scenario was somewhat writer speclation more than something coming from the Bears, unless I missed something.

 

Well, I've tried to use words like "might, possible, etc" because of that very thing. If I had to bet I'd say they don't sign Pace. But my theory is if they do all of a sudden sign him with the intention of playing LT, that it would indicate they are souring on Williams.

[soapy]

Is it possible we're jumping the gun on the Williams to RT thing? The two blurbs posted sounded like this scenario was somewhat writer speclation more than something coming from the Bears, unless I missed something.

 

Well, I've tried to use words like "might, possible, etc" because of that very thing. If I had to bet I'd say they don't sign Pace. But my theory is if they do all of a sudden sign him with the intention of playing LT, that it would indicate they are souring on Williams.

 

Okay. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.

 

I agree it would certainly indicate (to me) that they are souring on Williams.

[RedFlash]

I find it bizarre that a team could sour on a guy after just one season when they knew he was injured (or at least had a bad back) when they drafted him.

 

I don't think that is the case. I think it is more about Smith knowing what Pace can do morseo then the Bears souring on Chris Williams. Personally, I believe the Bears really hope that Williams was a LT, but ultimately the Bears think Williams is better suted to be a RT as a pro.

 

Considering he was a lock to start at LT the day he was drafted, that alone would indicate they are souring on him.

 

I am not debating the Bears are souring on Williams (which they clearly are), I am debating what the Bears will do with Williams if they sign Pace. The Bears can't release or trade Williams right now, if they do they would essentially be admitting a mistake by taking Williams over a guy like Cherilus, Baker or Otah. But what I am thinking is that the Bears could possibly bring in Pace as a mentor/stopgap LT role until Williams is ready to play LT. What better LT to bring in as a mentor then Pace?

[Soul]

My head hurts...

 

So I go out to get lunch and I have The Score on. Murph's show (I know, I know)... and he is taking calls and texts about "Should the Bears offer all 7 tradable picks to Denver for Cutler?" Calls are coming in not only saying "yes", but they should throw in Orton and Denver's choice of Urlacher/T.Harris to "stand out amongst other bidding teams".

 

:banghead:

 

Haha. Yeah.

 

Think of it this way, it illustrates how QB-starved this town really is.

[jersey cubs fan]

I am not debating the Bears are souring on Williams (which they clearly are), I am debating what the Bears will do with Williams if they sign Pace. The Bears can't release or trade Williams right now, if they do they would essentially be admitting a mistake by taking Williams over a guy like Cherilus, Baker or Otah. But what I am thinking is that the Bears could possibly bring in Pace as a mentor/stopgap LT role until Williams is ready to play LT. What better LT to bring in as a mentor then Pace?

 

I don't believe much in mentors, or the notion that it's a good idea to start a guy at RT while preparing him to be a LT. If he's a LT, and you plan on playing him at LT, play him at LT. It's not as extreme as switching between CB and S, but it's along the same lines. They are different positions, and switching from one to the other requires a load of practice time invested.

[RedFlash]

My head hurts...

 

So I go out to get lunch and I have The Score on. Murph's show (I know, I know)... and he is taking calls and texts about "Should the Bears offer all 7 tradable picks to Denver for Cutler?" Calls are coming in not only saying "yes", but they should throw in Orton and Denver's choice of Urlacher/T.Harris to "stand out amongst other bidding teams".

 

:banghead:

 

Haha. Yeah.

 

Think of it this way, it illustrates how QB-starved this town really is.

 

The MOST I would offer is two first rd picks, because essentially the Bears would be giving up is two middle of the first rd picks for Cutler (especially if the Bears make the playoffs next yr with Cutler if acquired). Remember first rd picks are expendable, IMO, because of the Bears failure to do much with their pick.

[dew1679666265]

No, I think it means they are souring on him. Everyone knows Pace is not a long-term option. For them to delay Williams from playing on the left side after not allowing him to play over St. Clair last year, would be an ominous sign to me. It reminds me of the Cubs starting Shawn Estes and keeping Juan Cruz in the bullpen back in the day.

 

The difference being that Estes wasn't very good, while Pace is. And Williams is still starting, unlike Cruz.

 

I just don't really see how starting a player can constitute souring on him. I see it more as the Cubs calling up Vitters to play first instead of third. His true position is still third, but the need (in theory) is greater for him to play first.

 

That's not even close to the same. NFL doesn't have minor leagues. They also have a salary cap. Williams draft status and contract means he will play somewhere, regardless of how the coaches feel about him. But going from Day 1 left tackle starter to maybe moving over to RT and possibly competing with a guy cut by Cleveland looks to me like a coaching staff souring on a guy.

 

The Titans have soured on Vince Young and, hence, are no longer starting him. Coaches in this league will bench a guy regardless of his salary if they feel he is hurting the team by starting. I don't know what Williams is making, but Vince is over $4 million this year and will top $10 million next year. If the Titans still don't see him as a starter, they won't start him next year either.

 

The Bears might be souring on Williams, but I just don't see enough evidence in a switch to RT that it's safe to assume. And from the blurbs we're discussing, the assumption was Williams would have the starting RT job if Pace is signed. There was nothing about him competing with Shaffer.

[jersey cubs fan]

My head hurts...

 

So I go out to get lunch and I have The Score on. Murph's show (I know, I know)... and he is taking calls and texts about "Should the Bears offer all 7 tradable picks to Denver for Cutler?" Calls are coming in not only saying "yes", but they should throw in Orton and Denver's choice of Urlacher/T.Harris to "stand out amongst other bidding teams".

 

:banghead:

 

Haha. Yeah.

 

Think of it this way, it illustrates how QB-starved this town really is.

 

The MOST I would offer is two first rd picks, because essentially the Bears would be giving up is two middle of the first rd picks for Cutler (especially if the Bears make the playoffs next yr with Cutler if acquired). Remember first rd picks are expendable, IMO, because of the Bears failure to do much with their pick.

 

I would go 2 1st, Orton, and either another player or a 3rd or 4th round pick. This isn't like trading your draft for Ricky Williams. A franchise QB has far more value than a stud RB. A franchise QB can lead to 10+ years of contention, and justify throwing away a couple picks. If you asked me if I would be willing to trade. If I had the opportunity to trade every pick taken in the Bears 2005 draft for Cutler, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Would the team be worse if they traded every pick from 2007 for Cutler?

[jersey cubs fan]

No, I think it means they are souring on him. Everyone knows Pace is not a long-term option. For them to delay Williams from playing on the left side after not allowing him to play over St. Clair last year, would be an ominous sign to me. It reminds me of the Cubs starting Shawn Estes and keeping Juan Cruz in the bullpen back in the day.

 

The difference being that Estes wasn't very good, while Pace is. And Williams is still starting, unlike Cruz.

 

I just don't really see how starting a player can constitute souring on him. I see it more as the Cubs calling up Vitters to play first instead of third. His true position is still third, but the need (in theory) is greater for him to play first.

 

That's not even close to the same. NFL doesn't have minor leagues. They also have a salary cap. Williams draft status and contract means he will play somewhere, regardless of how the coaches feel about him. But going from Day 1 left tackle starter to maybe moving over to RT and possibly competing with a guy cut by Cleveland looks to me like a coaching staff souring on a guy.

 

The Titans have soured on Vince Young and, hence, are no longer starting him. Coaches in this league will bench a guy regardless of his salary if they feel he is hurting the team by starting. I don't know what Williams is making, but Vince is over $4 million this year and will top $10 million next year. If the Titans still don't see him as a starter, they won't start him next year either.

 

The Bears might be souring on Williams, but I just don't see enough evidence in a switch to RT that it's safe to assume. And from the blurbs we're discussing, the assumption was Williams would have the starting RT job if Pace is signed. There was nothing about him competing with Shaffer.

 

QB is another animal. But yes, they have clearly soured on him. If they moved him from starting QB to starting WR, you could also say they were soured on him.

 

I really don't see how anybody can look at pursuing multiple tackle options, moving your #1 draft pick, slated to start at LT, to RT, and not think there is a possibility they are souring on him.

 

The trip blurb did reference Schafer competing to start at RT.

[dew1679666265]

No, I think it means they are souring on him. Everyone knows Pace is not a long-term option. For them to delay Williams from playing on the left side after not allowing him to play over St. Clair last year, would be an ominous sign to me. It reminds me of the Cubs starting Shawn Estes and keeping Juan Cruz in the bullpen back in the day.

 

The difference being that Estes wasn't very good, while Pace is. And Williams is still starting, unlike Cruz.

 

I just don't really see how starting a player can constitute souring on him. I see it more as the Cubs calling up Vitters to play first instead of third. His true position is still third, but the need (in theory) is greater for him to play first.

 

That's not even close to the same. NFL doesn't have minor leagues. They also have a salary cap. Williams draft status and contract means he will play somewhere, regardless of how the coaches feel about him. But going from Day 1 left tackle starter to maybe moving over to RT and possibly competing with a guy cut by Cleveland looks to me like a coaching staff souring on a guy.

 

The Titans have soured on Vince Young and, hence, are no longer starting him. Coaches in this league will bench a guy regardless of his salary if they feel he is hurting the team by starting. I don't know what Williams is making, but Vince is over $4 million this year and will top $10 million next year. If the Titans still don't see him as a starter, they won't start him next year either.

 

The Bears might be souring on Williams, but I just don't see enough evidence in a switch to RT that it's safe to assume. And from the blurbs we're discussing, the assumption was Williams would have the starting RT job if Pace is signed. There was nothing about him competing with Shaffer.

 

QB is another animal. But yes, they have clearly soured on him. If they moved him from starting QB to starting WR, you could also say they were soured on him.

 

I really don't see how anybody can look at pursuing multiple tackle options, moving your #1 draft pick, slated to start at LT, to RT, and not think there is a possibility they are souring on him.

 

The trip blurb did reference Schafer competing to start at RT.

 

Possible? Yes. But I don't think it's safe to assume that.

 

Now, I didn't see the blurb that said Shaffer would compete with him. If that's the case, then I would tend to think they have. As long as they are starting him, though, I think that's a sign they still like him.

[jersey cubs fan]

Possible? Yes. But I don't think it's safe to assume that.

 

Now, I didn't see the blurb that said Shaffer would compete with him. If that's the case, then I would tend to think they have. As long as they are starting him, though, I think that's a sign they still like him.

 

Or a sign they don't have many good options on the line to begin with.

 

Again, I'm not saying they have clearly given up on Williams or anything. But if they are actually pursuing Pace to start at LT, it would seem pretty clear to me that they've soured on Williams, considering they had penciled him in as the starting LT.