2009 Chicago Bears offseason

[RynoRules]

Off hand it's hard to see a better fit for TO than the Bears, at least among teams that are any good. Maybe Tampa Bay?

 

I dunno that the Bears are good.

 

As a 9-7 team where a quality WR could make a big difference, I think they qualify as good, and a good fit.

 

They have some serious problems on both lines. As you know, few if any teams can sustain "goodness" with below avg. O and D lines.

[stuy119]

Angelo has shown a reluctance to even show much interest in "big name" free agents other than his own. I don't see TO happening.

 

I'm not sure he feels confident enough to go out and scout other FAs vs. his own.

[jersey cubs fan]

Angelo has shown a reluctance to even show much interest in "big name" free agents other than his own. I don't see TO happening.

 

I'm not sure he feels confident enough to go out and scout other FAs vs. his own.

 

I doubt that is the issue. Angelo prefers to build his team through the draft and pay his own players before they hit free agency. But he's spent big on Moose and Tait, and paid Wale when he was holding out from his other team.

[Banedon]

Angelo has shown a reluctance to even show much interest in "big name" free agents other than his own. I don't see TO happening.

 

I'm not sure he feels confident enough to go out and scout other FAs vs. his own.

 

I doubt that is the issue. Angelo prefers to build his team through the draft and pay his own players before they hit free agency. But he's spent big on Moose and Tait, and paid Wale when he was holding out from his other team.

 

Of those three, Moose was the only one I'd think is remotely close to being a "big name" free agent, and that's really stretching the definition imo.

[jersey cubs fan]

Angelo has shown a reluctance to even show much interest in "big name" free agents other than his own. I don't see TO happening.

 

I'm not sure he feels confident enough to go out and scout other FAs vs. his own.

 

I doubt that is the issue. Angelo prefers to build his team through the draft and pay his own players before they hit free agency. But he's spent big on Moose and Tait, and paid Wale when he was holding out from his other team.

 

Of those three, Moose was the only one I'd think is remotely close to being a "big name" free agent, and that's really stretching the definition imo.

 

Well he was certainly a big name, not as big as TO, but TO isn't as big now as TO was a couple years ago. Tait was a very big name offensive lineman at the time, and the Bears overpaid because they were desperate for line help. Ogunleye wasn't a top notch end, but he was a Pro Bowler coming off a huge season looking for big money that his team wasn't willing to offer. The Bears were very hungry for pass rush help and made the deal. They've gone outside the organization for help at positions they were desperate for in the past, and they've paid guys more than they were worth (none of them took discounts to come to Chicago). I highly doubt TO gets top notch WR money at this point. He's no longer the player he once way. But I bet he'd take 2nd tier money in the right situation, and the right situation probably involves going to a team where he is the clear number 1 guy.

[stuy119]

I doubt it will happen, but I would like to see the Bears go after Torry Holt. I won't even guess as to what it would take to bring him in, or what offers will be out there. But I wouldn't go more than 3 years (4 max) for a 32 year old WR who has mainly played on turf.

[Guest]

As big of a hole as the WR position is on this team, I'll be steamed if they don't land one of T.O., Harrison, Housh or Holt. Maybe a few more big names will spring up in the meantime, but if they are going to fill a hole at WR, I think the only way it happens is through FA. The goal should be to fill holes on offense (including the line) through free agency, and draft defense.

[jersey cubs fan]

As big of a hole as the WR position is on this team, I'll be steamed if they don't land one of T.O., Harrison, Housh or Holt. Maybe a few more big names will spring up in the meantime, but if they are going to fill a hole at WR, I think the only way it happens is through FA. The goal should be to fill holes on offense (including the line) through free agency, and draft defense.

 

I'm not sure about that goal. Why not draft offensive line?

[Guest]

As big of a hole as the WR position is on this team, I'll be steamed if they don't land one of T.O., Harrison, Housh or Holt. Maybe a few more big names will spring up in the meantime, but if they are going to fill a hole at WR, I think the only way it happens is through FA. The goal should be to fill holes on offense (including the line) through free agency, and draft defense.

 

I'm not sure about that goal. Why not draft offensive line?

 

Mainly because as far down as the Bears will be picking, there probably won't be an impact lineman that can step right in and start. If there is one, then by all means, pick him up. But, I think the focus of the draft should be on defense, and then look to improve the offense through free agency.

 

The Bears are definitely not going to land a stud receiver through the draft, so they need to push for one of these big name guys that still has a bit left in the tank.

[Guest]

As big of a hole as the WR position is on this team, I'll be steamed if they don't land one of T.O., Harrison, Housh or Holt. Maybe a few more big names will spring up in the meantime, but if they are going to fill a hole at WR, I think the only way it happens is through FA. The goal should be to fill holes on offense (including the line) through free agency, and draft defense.

 

I'm not sure about that goal. Why not draft offensive line?

 

Mainly because as far down as the Bears will be picking, there probably won't be an impact lineman that can step right in and start. If there is one, then by all means, pick him up. But, I think the focus of the draft should be on defense, and then look to improve the offense through free agency.

 

The Bears are definitely not going to land a stud receiver through the draft, so they need to push for one of these big name guys that still has a bit left in the tank.

 

Any first round offensive lineman should have the ability to come in and start from day 1.

[jersey cubs fan]

As big of a hole as the WR position is on this team, I'll be steamed if they don't land one of T.O., Harrison, Housh or Holt. Maybe a few more big names will spring up in the meantime, but if they are going to fill a hole at WR, I think the only way it happens is through FA. The goal should be to fill holes on offense (including the line) through free agency, and draft defense.

 

I'm not sure about that goal. Why not draft offensive line?

 

Mainly because as far down as the Bears will be picking, there probably won't be an impact lineman that can step right in and start. If there is one, then by all means, pick him up. But, I think the focus of the draft should be on defense, and then look to improve the offense through free agency.

 

The Bears are definitely not going to land a stud receiver through the draft, so they need to push for one of these big name guys that still has a bit left in the tank.

 

Any first round offensive lineman should have the ability to come in and start from day 1.

 

And as much as it would be nice to find the next impact Bears defender in the first, at least the defense has starting caliber guys at every position, including multiple pro bowlers. The offensive line has backups and backup caliber players at multiple spots. They don't have the bodies to field an offensive line at this point.

 

They have a reputation of doing well drafting defenders, but save for Tommie Harris, they haven't had luck drafting them early. Michael Haynes, Tank Johnson, Danieal Manning and Dan Bazuin haven't exactly justified their picks. Add to that another 2nd round, Hester, who was drafted as a DBack but has had his success only as a returner and WR.

 

I don't think they are any better equipped to draft defense in that first round. If anything, they might stand a better chance drafting guys who can contribute in the 3rd or 4th round. There biggest weaknesses remain on the offensive side of the ball, and I think line is an obvious choice.

[minnesotacubsfan]

As big of a hole as the WR position is on this team, I'll be steamed if they don't land one of T.O., Harrison, Housh or Holt. Maybe a few more big names will spring up in the meantime, but if they are going to fill a hole at WR, I think the only way it happens is through FA. The goal should be to fill holes on offense (including the line) through free agency, and draft defense.

 

I'm not sure about that goal. Why not draft offensive line?

 

Mainly because as far down as the Bears will be picking, there probably won't be an impact lineman that can step right in and start. If there is one, then by all means, pick him up. But, I think the focus of the draft should be on defense, and then look to improve the offense through free agency.

 

The Bears are definitely not going to land a stud receiver through the draft, so they need to push for one of these big name guys that still has a bit left in the tank.

 

Any first round offensive lineman should have the ability to come in and start from day 1.

 

And as much as it would be nice to find the next impact Bears defender in the first, at least the defense has starting caliber guys at every position, including multiple pro bowlers. The offensive line has backups and backup caliber players at multiple spots. They don't have the bodies to field an offensive line at this point.

 

They have a reputation of doing well drafting defenders, but save for Tommie Harris, they haven't had luck drafting them early. Michael Haynes, Tank Johnson, Danieal Manning and Dan Bazuin haven't exactly justified their picks. Add to that another 2nd round, Hester, who was drafted as a DBack but has had his success only as a returner and WR.

 

I don't think they are any better equipped to draft defense in that first round. If anything, they might stand a better chance drafting guys who can contribute in the 3rd or 4th round. There biggest weaknesses remain on the offensive side of the ball, and I think line is an obvious choice.

 

I dont feel like luck has much to do with Angelo's inability to draft D early. look at those names, Haynes, Manning, Bazuin, and Hester were far from good bets. He was rolling the dice. Johnson was a gmable only becuase of his rep, and he had a good year this past with dallas. If a good DE is available in rd 1, take him

[Soul]

Tank Johnson was a 2nd round pick. Considering he wound up a starting DT on a Super Bowl team who's calling card was its defense, I think that was a solid pick. Certainly he got into trouble and had to be sent packing, but in terms of the pick and the subsequent rise to starter status, that's a solid one for me. You're not going to be able to draft a saint with every pick -- it was a gamble, but the skills were there, and in my mind they wound up being justified.

 

I'd rather gamble on a Tank Johnson type player than a Bazuin type unknown anyday. Angelo would do well to keep his first 3 rounds away from the nobody schools. Those guys are likely to be around later anyway, and he's starting to get burned more often on them than hitting on them.

Edited March 6, 2009 by Soul

[minnesotacubsfan]

I would agree, but if I remember correctly he was a potential 1st rounder, but had personality issues. He was still worth the 2nd rd pick. All I was saying is Angelo seems to love to gamble early with his D players

 

 

I hate that

[Soul]

You remember correctly. He was a real value in the mid 2nd round.

[RynoRules]

Is it me, or do small-school defensive players generally have less success in the pros than their offensive counterparts? And by small school I mean D I-AA (as it was formerly called) and below.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Off hand it's hard to see a better fit for TO than the Bears, at least among teams that are any good. Maybe Tampa Bay?

 

 

Vikings

[mul21]

Off hand it's hard to see a better fit for TO than the Bears, at least among teams that are any good. Maybe Tampa Bay?

 

 

Vikings

 

Who's gonna throw him the ball? I mean Orton is no superstar but at least he can get the ball to his receivers and who knows if he'd be better if he actually had some quality talent to throw to. Is Rosenfels that much of an upgrade over Jackson that TO would make a difference and be happy?

[minnesotacubsfan]

the Vikings want a WR bad, most teams in the NFL wont want TO, so TO may not have a choice as to who is going to throw the ball to him

 

 

another possibility might be the Chargers

[jersey cubs fan]

Tank Johnson was a 2nd round pick. Considering he wound up a starting DT on a Super Bowl team who's calling card was its defense, I think that was a solid pick.

 

I know he was a 2nd rounder, I was talking about 1st and 2nd round picks, which is why I discussed Manning and Hester. But your reasoning is awful. Tank was the starter be default. He never came close to living up to the hype. Everybody said if he could stay out of trouble and on the field he'd be great, but he was nothing special. Rex Grossman was the starting QB of a Super Bowl team and that was far from a solid pick. The defense was great for many many reasons besides Tank Johnson. He wasn't even the 4th most important defensive lineman on that team.

[jersey cubs fan]

the Vikings want a WR bad, most teams in the NFL wont want TO, so TO may not have a choice as to who is going to throw the ball to him

 

 

another possibility might be the Chargers

 

 

Childress dealt with TO in Philly, and supposedly has ruled out his team's interest. I've heard talk about just about every team but Oakland saying no, but I haven't heard anything from the Bears saying such a thing.

 

Personally I think it's no lose for the Bears. If this was a 12 win team, I could understand not wanting to upset the apple cart and bring in a misfit who could ruin things. But if Owens came here, what could he ruin? Is the fear that they fall from .500 to a 10 loss team? Big freaking deal. The last thing we want is to be stuck in mediocrity. I would rather risk disaster (which is an exaggerated description of the negative things that could happen) while trying to create the best team possible than settle for the mediocrity we are assured of from this offense without a massive influx of talent.

 

TO doesn't really help a team like New England. With Brady, they are great, and TO isn't going to make them better.

 

TO needs 2 things if you want to maximize his value, a chance to be THE GUY and an ability to win. The Bears are clearly not very good. But if they sign TO, suddenly they can concentrate on the offensive line and defense in the draft, significantly improve their passing game and probably turn into a 10-11 win team, or potentially a 12 win homefield advantage type team. Lovie isn't a disciplinarian, but we do know his players love him. If there is one thing they've done under him it's give their all, with few exceptions. The problem has been a combination of talent (primarily an offensive issue), strategy, and on defense especially, health. Give him a big one year contract with incentives and the chance to earn big money if he comes back. Give him incentive not to get himself cut this year, and to play 16 games, and you might get the most out of him. His career is winding down, and a lot of times these guys want to make one last splash.

 

Again, what's the worst that could happen? Miss the playoffs again and draft a little higher? I'll take it. This isn't a juggernaut that we can't risk ruining.

[jersey cubs fan]

Is it me, or do small-school defensive players generally have less success in the pros than their offensive counterparts? And by small school I mean D I-AA (as it was formerly called) and below.

 

I feel like there's a good amount of defensive backs who do well out of small schools. I don't know if there are very many linebackers or lineman who have succeeded out of these schools though. Your theory would make sense, because I believe you have to be a much better athlete to compete in the NFL on defense, and those guys usually go to the best schools. Whereas some of the offensive positions require a little more subtle skill set. But I've never seen the numbers.

[minnesotacubsfan]

the Vikings want a WR bad, most teams in the NFL wont want TO, so TO may not have a choice as to who is going to throw the ball to him

 

 

another possibility might be the Chargers

 

 

Childress dealt with TO in Philly, and supposedly has ruled out his team's interest. I've heard talk about just about every team but Oakland saying no, but I haven't heard anything from the Bears saying such a thing.

 

Personally I think it's no lose for the Bears. If this was a 12 win team, I could understand not wanting to upset the apple cart and bring in a misfit who could ruin things. But if Owens came here, what could he ruin? Is the fear that they fall from .500 to a 10 loss team? Big freaking deal. The last thing we want is to be stuck in mediocrity. I would rather risk disaster (which is an exaggerated description of the negative things that could happen) while trying to create the best team possible than settle for the mediocrity we are assured of from this offense without a massive influx of talent.

 

TO doesn't really help a team like New England. With Brady, they are great, and TO isn't going to make them better.

 

TO needs 2 things if you want to maximize his value, a chance to be THE GUY and an ability to win. The Bears are clearly not very good. But if they sign TO, suddenly they can concentrate on the offensive line and defense in the draft, significantly improve their passing game and probably turn into a 10-11 win team, or potentially a 12 win homefield advantage type team. Lovie isn't a disciplinarian, but we do know his players love him. If there is one thing they've done under him it's give their all, with few exceptions. The problem has been a combination of talent (primarily an offensive issue), strategy, and on defense especially, health. Give him a big one year contract with incentives and the chance to earn big money if he comes back. Give him incentive not to get himself cut this year, and to play 16 games, and you might get the most out of him. His career is winding down, and a lot of times these guys want to make one last splash.

 

Again, what's the worst that could happen? Miss the playoffs again and draft a little higher? I'll take it. This isn't a juggernaut that we can't risk ruining.

 

I agree with this, but I doubt Angelo does it consdiering how he treated Benson and Johnson. Maybe they do it feeling they need to win this season, and TO gives them a good shot at it.

 

And Childress says alot of things, but he is feeling the heat to win up here.

[jersey cubs fan]

I agree with this, but I doubt Angelo does it consdiering how he treated Benson and Johnson. Maybe they do it feeling they need to win this season, and TO gives them a good shot at it.

 

And Childress says alot of things, but he is feeling the heat to win up here.

 

The thing about Tank and Cedric is gun/dui/police problems vs TO's divaness. I agree that he doesn't seem to be very Bearslike, but TO works hard and doesn't get into trouble with the law.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I would love to have TO for a season or two, maybe Angelo bites the bullet.