Piniella: Fukudome Needs to Start Hitting

[badnews]

I don't think Matsuzaka is that good. He was supposed to be the best pitcher on the planet, he was supposed to have 8 pitches he could throw for strikes at any time. He was supposed to throw unhittable gyroballs and shotays or whatever you like, etc. He was a 4.40 ERA pitcher last year, he's a 1.33 WHIP guy this year, who walks way too many hitters and doesn't go deep into games nearly enough. I don't think he's particularly good. His FIP is 4.22.

 

I don't see him having any kind of power jump like Matsui, his swing isn't tailored for it and he's more of a hitter like Iwamura than Matsui.

[David]

I'd gladly take a 27 year old pitcher putting up the numbers Dice-K is putting up in the AL East.

 

That said, it's true that he's not as good as the hype would've made one believe, but that's because the hype was ridiculous.

[imb]

that damn bobby brownlie, where's the outlaw curve you goddang liar

[badnews]

I'd gladly take a 27 year old pitcher putting up the numbers Dice-K is putting up in the AL East.

 

That said, it's true that he's not as good as the hype would've made one believe, but that's because the hype was ridiculous.

 

That's like saying "I'll take Russ Ortiz's numbers way back when he winning games." The numbers are there but they don't add up at all.

 

He's not an ace, I think it's questionable if he's even a #2 pitcher, he might be a #3 pitcher the way he goes less than 6 innings as much as he does.

[David]

153 ERA+ in the AL East

 

 

What's an average WHIP in the AL?

[David]

Apparently, average WHIP in the AL is lower (barely) this year than in the NL...

 

1.37 in AL

 

1.39 in NL

 

 

Whatever... You're right, his peripherals don't look great. He is keeping other teams from scoring runs at an exceptional clip, but it doesn't seem necessarily sustainable.

Edited August 11, 2008 by David

[imb]

Daisuke's era+ 153

 

russ ortiz' best era+ 122

[imb]

Apparently, average WHIP in the AL is lower (barely) this year than in the NL...

 

1.37 in AL

 

1.39 in NL

 

 

Whatever... You're right, his peripherals don't look great. He is keeping other team's from scoring runs at an exceptional clip, but it doesn't seem necessarily sustainable.

 

he walks a lot of batters but he doesn't give up a lot of hits and the hits he does give up don't go for extra bases. He's got an ops against of .643, what a scrub.

[badnews]

Bronson Arroyo probably posted a 1.33 WHIP at some point with the Red Sox. Whooo hoooo.

 

Look at his FIP.

 

AL East FIP:

 

Halladay 3.01

Beckett 3.38

Mussina 3.61

Sonnanstine 3.61

Burnett 3.65

Lester 3.68

Shields 3.71

Garza 4.17

Guthrie 4.21

Matsuzaka 4.22

 

And he was supposed to be the best pitcher on the planet. The hype was unreal. Now $100 million posting fee for Darvish? Oh I will laugh.

[imb]

i mean, if a .643opsa doesn't scream RUSS ORTIZ at you, i dont know what does.

[David]

Good points

[David]

from IMB, that is

[badnews]

Daisuke's era+ 153

 

russ ortiz' best era+ 122

 

Since when does a bloated WHIP with a better ERA mean nothing?

 

What does OPS against have to do with it when it's clear he's been lucky? Riuss Ortiz had a .657 OPS against in 2003. He walked 100 guys like every year and had a huge WHIP.

 

i mean, if a .643opsa doesn't scream RUSS ORTIZ at you, i dont know what does.

 

 

 

Like 2001-2003 when his smoke and mirrors act was at its finest, what was it then?

[imb]

from 2001-2003 he never had an era above 3.82

 

he was never a great pitcher but he threw 650 innings with an era at like 3.50, smoke and mirrors or whatever, but he got outs.

 

saying daisuke is average because he's not the "best pitcher in the league like all the hype" is pretty dumb. you can't judge a player but what ken rosenthal says in his offseason scouting reports

 

 

daisuke's success this year is easy to see, he's got an average whip but no one is getting extra bases on him. it's easy to keep your era down when the ball never leaves the park and everyone gets one base at a time.

[badnews]

I didn't say he was average, I could see where you might think that, but I said he was on the cusp of between a #2/#3 starter, and that's above average when you take all the pitchers in baseball.

 

But I don't agree with you. You are going the old school route, like "Wins are great, who cares about ERA." He's been lucky and he's not even close to as good as he was billed before he came over. Not even remotely close. Look at FIP-ERA:

 

Saunders - 1.52

Matsuzaka - 1.32

Floyd - 1.32

Duchsherer - 1.11

Wakefield - 1.10

Galarraga - 1.10

Perez, Oliver - 1.02

Lannan - 0.99

 

So his numbers aren't indicative of how he's pitched. To say otherwise is to engage in a Joe Morgan like whitewashing.

[imb]

i'm not going any route.

 

i dont care about wins and i dont care about era, i care about outs and minimizing damage when you dont get them. i dont like whip that much because doubles, tripes and homers (which he doesnt give up) count the same as a single and a walk, when they're clearly not. he gets away with his high whip because no one is making solid contact off of him.

 

can he keep it up? i dont see why not, russ ortiz did for 650 innings in a row, and daisuke is a hell of a lot better than he was.

[chuckywang]

He is definitely trying to send a message, but I highly doubt they bench a $12m player with a .370 OBP and plus defense. No way at all.

 

All franchises in baseball need to understand the concept of a "sunk cost".

[questionmarkgrace]

If lou is putting fukudome on notice shouldnt he put Lee on notice? Not that either of them are going anywhere but lee is the one killing our offense right now. The gidp's are becoming a joke he is on pace to set the major league all-time record. In the last thirty days hes batting .245 his power is gone. He currently has the lowest ops he has had since 2001. Shoot derosa almost has as many rbi's. If lou is calling people out he better call out lee also because lee's hitting in the three hole affects us much more than Fukudome batting eighth.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

If lou is putting fukudome on notice shouldnt he put Lee on notice? Not that either of them are going anywhere but lee is the one killing our offense right now. The gidp's are becoming a joke he is on pace to set the major league all-time record. In the last thirty days hes batting .245 his power is gone. He currently has the lowest ops he has had since 2001. Shoot derosa almost has as many rbi's. If lou is calling people out he better call out lee also because lee's hitting in the three hole affects us much more than Fukudome batting eighth.

 

The only thing that could even be done with Lee is move him down in the order. When the roster expands Hoffpauir can get a bit of playing time to give Lee a break. Other than that, there isn't much else to do.

[17 Seconds]

i i care about outs and minimizing damage when you dont get them.

 

I don't think anybody is disagreeing with that. The point is that he's unlikely to keep getting outs and minimizing the damage with the way he's pitching. He's been good, but he's also been getting really lucky. Eventually guys are going to start cashing those runners in. It's amazing that he's been able to keep his ERA this low for so long with such crappy peripherals.

[RynoRules]

Fukudome looks confused at the plate much of the time. Then he'll drive one to left and make me think he has it figured out again. I dunno what his deal is, but I think the smart thing would be to give him a day or two off now and let him get things figured out by mid-September. In the meantime, we have enough offense to cover for him.

 

I still think it is too early to judge his overall ability at this level in light of what other Japanese players have experienced during their first seasons.

[RedFlash]

He is definitely trying to send a message, but I highly doubt they bench a $12m player with a .370 OBP and plus defense. No way at all.

 

All franchises in baseball need to understand the concept of a "sunk cost".

 

You can't call Kosuke a "sunk cost" right now. You have to give him time, before making that bold statement. I'm still living in a delusional state of mind that Kosuke is just setting everybody up for a HUGE September/October that people won't forget.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I think that there are a lot of teams out there that would kill to have Fukudome at his worst at the 8 spot in the order, and is there anyone on the bench whose enough of an upgrade offensively that would make it worth taking away Kosukes defense?

[UMFan83]

He is definitely trying to send a message, but I highly doubt they bench a $12m player with a .370 OBP and plus defense. No way at all.

 

All franchises in baseball need to understand the concept of a "sunk cost".

 

You can't call Kosuke a "sunk cost" right now. You have to give him time, before making that bold statement. I'm still living in a delusional state of mind that Kosuke is just setting everybody up for a HUGE September/October that people won't forget.

 

Seriously, he's shown flashes of being a good player. He is still getting on base, and he's playing very good defense. Is he a $12M/year player? No. Is he putting up even average numbers for a corner OF? But does he deserve to be starting? Yes. Why? Because he's shown in the past he can be good in Japan, he's shown flashes here in the majors as well, we have the best offense in the league with him in there, and honestly there are no better options other than Fontenot at 2B and DeRosa in RF. But even in that scenario you are losing a good bit of defense.

 

But it is very possible he is the next Iwamura, who put up some great numbers in Japan only to be mediocre at best in the MLB

[Soul]

If lou is putting fukudome on notice shouldnt he put Lee on notice? Not that either of them are going anywhere but lee is the one killing our offense right now. The gidp's are becoming a joke he is on pace to set the major league all-time record. In the last thirty days hes batting .245 his power is gone. He currently has the lowest ops he has had since 2001. Shoot derosa almost has as many rbi's. If lou is calling people out he better call out lee also because lee's hitting in the three hole affects us much more than Fukudome batting eighth.

 

The only thing that could even be done with Lee is move him down in the order. When the roster expands Hoffpauir can get a bit of playing time to give Lee a break. Other than that, there isn't much else to do.

 

Get him days off. He was better after he had that day off a little while ago.