R. Hill Turning the Corner ?

[inari]

Z

Harden

Lilly

Dempster

Hill

 

Whoa whoa whoa.

[soapy]

i'm trying not to get too excited here, but it's not going to be easy.

[Old Style]

Z

Harden

Lilly

Dempster

Hill

 

Whoa whoa whoa.

That wouldn't suck.

[Warren Brusstar]

funny/sad that it took the big league staff hardly any time at all to presumably ruin 2 1/2 years of good rich hill and less than two weeks for the minor league staff to get him back on track (hopefully).

 

Your continued implication that none of this is Rich Hill's fault (and that big bad Lou Piniella and Larry Rothschild ruined poor Rich) is maddening.

[abuck1220]

funny/sad that it took the big league staff hardly any time at all to presumably ruin 2 1/2 years of good rich hill and less than two weeks for the minor league staff to get him back on track (hopefully).

 

Your continued implication that none of this is Rich Hill's fault (and that big bad Lou Piniella and Larry Rothschild ruined poor Rich) is maddening.

 

where did i say that none of this was hill's fault? clearly the problem snowballed and became mental when his mechanics got out of whack, and i'm sure a lot of that was hill's "fault."

 

and i'm sorry i'm causing you so much mental distress. but if this whole ordeal doesn't make you question rothschild's competence, i don't know what to tell you.

[Warren Brusstar]

funny/sad that it took the big league staff hardly any time at all to presumably ruin 2 1/2 years of good rich hill and less than two weeks for the minor league staff to get him back on track (hopefully).

 

Your continued implication that none of this is Rich Hill's fault (and that big bad Lou Piniella and Larry Rothschild ruined poor Rich) is maddening.

 

where did i say that none of this was hill's fault? clearly the problem snowballed and became mental when his mechanics got out of whack, and i'm sure a lot of that was hill's "fault."

 

and i'm sorry i'm causing you so much mental distress. but if this whole ordeal doesn't make you question rothschild's competence, i don't know what to tell you.

 

Was Rick Ankiel's meltdown Dave Duncan's fault? Is he incompetent too?

[abuck1220]

and my critique of rothschild isn't so much for causing the problem, but more about his inability to fix it.

 

i mean, i'm assuming he worked and worked and worked with hill from ST through may and couldn't figure out what was going on. he's been at mesa for two weeks and they apparently fixed some mechanical flaw that has immensely improved his control.

 

you don't think that makes rothschild look a little bit like a fool? he's being paid millions to do stuff like fix broken pitchers. some guy probably making $30,000 did in two weeks what rothschild couldn't do in three months.

[abuck1220]

funny/sad that it took the big league staff hardly any time at all to presumably ruin 2 1/2 years of good rich hill and less than two weeks for the minor league staff to get him back on track (hopefully).

 

Your continued implication that none of this is Rich Hill's fault (and that big bad Lou Piniella and Larry Rothschild ruined poor Rich) is maddening.

 

where did i say that none of this was hill's fault? clearly the problem snowballed and became mental when his mechanics got out of whack, and i'm sure a lot of that was hill's "fault."

 

and i'm sorry i'm causing you so much mental distress. but if this whole ordeal doesn't make you question rothschild's competence, i don't know what to tell you.

 

Was Rick Ankiel's meltdown Dave Duncan's fault? Is he incompetent too?

 

no one was able to subsequently fix ankiel.

[TheDude]

It would seem to fit this 2008 Cubs team to see Hill get a September call-up and own the league, bumping Marquis from the rotation for the playoffs.

[CubColtPacer]

and my critique of rothschild isn't so much for causing the problem, but more about his inability to fix it.

 

i mean, i'm assuming he worked and worked and worked with hill from ST through may and couldn't figure out what was going on. he's been at mesa for two weeks and they apparently fixed some mechanical flaw that has immensely improved his control.

 

you don't think that makes rothschild look a little bit like a fool? he's being paid millions to do stuff like fix broken pitchers. some guy probably making $30,000 did in two weeks what rothschild couldn't do in three months.

 

First off, I doubt that the difference between a major league pitching coach and a minor league pitching coordinator's salary is anywhere near that high. They're both important but somewhat expendable. I bet Rothschild makes more, but only because he's in the spotlight more. In many ways, the job that Riggins does is much more important.

 

Second, it's not like Riggins is chopped liver. He's probably the best pitching coach we have in the system, and I don't think there's any problem with admitting that. He's been both a minor league and major league pitching coach before. He's been a minor league pitching coordinator for the Cardinals and Cubs for the last 13 years now. I absolutely trust him more than Rothschild, but that doesn't mean I think Rothschild is incompetent.

 

Rothschild was trying to fix it on the fly so he could keep starting in the major leagues. Riggins has the freedom to have Hill do a completely new type of delivery and have time to keep working on it. That freedom allowed this solution to blossom.

[Tyrant]

you don't think that makes rothschild look a little bit like a fool? he's being paid millions to do stuff like fix broken pitchers. some guy probably making $30,000 did in two weeks what rothschild couldn't do in three months.

 

If Rothschild gets the blame for Hill, does he get the credit for Dempster?

[Warren Brusstar]

funny/sad that it took the big league staff hardly any time at all to presumably ruin 2 1/2 years of good rich hill and less than two weeks for the minor league staff to get him back on track (hopefully).

 

Your continued implication that none of this is Rich Hill's fault (and that big bad Lou Piniella and Larry Rothschild ruined poor Rich) is maddening.

 

where did i say that none of this was hill's fault? clearly the problem snowballed and became mental when his mechanics got out of whack, and i'm sure a lot of that was hill's "fault."

 

and i'm sorry i'm causing you so much mental distress. but if this whole ordeal doesn't make you question rothschild's competence, i don't know what to tell you.

 

Was Rick Ankiel's meltdown Dave Duncan's fault? Is he incompetent too?

 

no one was able to subsequently fix ankiel.

 

Rich Hill is fixed? Wow. Talk about overreacting to a second-hand report from a rookie league game.

[abuck1220]

funny/sad that it took the big league staff hardly any time at all to presumably ruin 2 1/2 years of good rich hill and less than two weeks for the minor league staff to get him back on track (hopefully).

 

Your continued implication that none of this is Rich Hill's fault (and that big bad Lou Piniella and Larry Rothschild ruined poor Rich) is maddening.

 

where did i say that none of this was hill's fault? clearly the problem snowballed and became mental when his mechanics got out of whack, and i'm sure a lot of that was hill's "fault."

 

and i'm sorry i'm causing you so much mental distress. but if this whole ordeal doesn't make you question rothschild's competence, i don't know what to tell you.

 

Was Rick Ankiel's meltdown Dave Duncan's fault? Is he incompetent too?

 

no one was able to subsequently fix ankiel.

 

Rich Hill is fixed? Wow. Talk about overreacting to a second-hand report from a rookie league game.

 

he's certainly making vast improvments, which is more than he ever did under rothschild.

Edited July 7, 2008 by abuck1220

[abuck1220]

you don't think that makes rothschild look a little bit like a fool? he's being paid millions to do stuff like fix broken pitchers. some guy probably making $30,000 did in two weeks what rothschild couldn't do in three months.

 

If Rothschild gets the blame for Hill, does he get the credit for Dempster?

 

how are those two even related? and anyway, dempster has had periods of success before.

 

but i don't care if you want to give rothschild some credit for him. go nuts. doesn't change how he apparently whiffed on hill.

[Warren Brusstar]

you don't think that makes rothschild look a little bit like a fool? he's being paid millions to do stuff like fix broken pitchers. some guy probably making $30,000 did in two weeks what rothschild couldn't do in three months.

 

If Rothschild gets the blame for Hill, does he get the credit for Dempster?

 

how are those two even related? and anyway, dempster has had periods of success before.

 

but i don't care if you want to give rothschild some credit for him. go nuts. doesn't change how he apparently whiffed on hill.

 

I'm trying to keep up with this moving target so bear with me. Is Rothschild incompetent (in your view) because he "screwed up" Hill or because he couldn't fix him?

 

You've seemingly taken the position that it's the latter because you're unwilling to blame Dave Duncan for Rick Ankiel's meltdown. Have I got that right?

[abuck1220]

ankiel has zero to do with hill. ankiel's collapse was apparently 99% mental, while hill's looks to be, i don't know, about 50% mental. ankiel was throwing the ball over the back stop. hill is not. hill's downfall came after his mechanics were changed. ankiel's was not.

[Warren Brusstar]

funny/sad that it took the big league staff hardly any time at all to presumably ruin 2 1/2 years of good rich hill and less than two weeks for the minor league staff to get him back on track (hopefully).

 

Your continued implication that none of this is Rich Hill's fault (and that big bad Lou Piniella and Larry Rothschild ruined poor Rich) is maddening.

 

where did i say that none of this was hill's fault? clearly the problem snowballed and became mental when his mechanics got out of whack, and i'm sure a lot of that was hill's "fault."

 

and i'm sorry i'm causing you so much mental distress. but if this whole ordeal doesn't make you question rothschild's competence, i don't know what to tell you.

 

Was Rick Ankiel's meltdown Dave Duncan's fault? Is he incompetent too?

 

no one was able to subsequently fix ankiel.

 

Rich Hill is fixed? Wow. Talk about overreacting to a second-hand report from a rookie league game.

 

he's certainly making vast improvments, which is more than he ever did under rothschild.

 

Well, you've been hammering Larry Rothschild for screwing up Hill for months, long before Rich Hill had his single good performance against 18 year old rookie leaguers. Obviously your opinion doesn't depend on whether Hill *can* be fixed; you had blamed Rothschild before Hill made any progress at all. With that framework, is it Dave Duncan's fault that Rick Ankiel imploded?

[abuck1220]

if ankiel's collapse would have come right after duncan was like "hey, you should change up your delivery a little bit," then, yes, i think duncan would share some of the blame. if ankiel got sent down to rookie ball and some other dude was like "hey, change this about your motion," and ankiel starting throwing strikes, then, yes, i'd say duncan screwed up.

[abuck1220]

funny/sad that it took the big league staff hardly any time at all to presumably ruin 2 1/2 years of good rich hill and less than two weeks for the minor league staff to get him back on track (hopefully).

 

Your continued implication that none of this is Rich Hill's fault (and that big bad Lou Piniella and Larry Rothschild ruined poor Rich) is maddening.

 

where did i say that none of this was hill's fault? clearly the problem snowballed and became mental when his mechanics got out of whack, and i'm sure a lot of that was hill's "fault."

 

and i'm sorry i'm causing you so much mental distress. but if this whole ordeal doesn't make you question rothschild's competence, i don't know what to tell you.

 

Was Rick Ankiel's meltdown Dave Duncan's fault? Is he incompetent too?

 

no one was able to subsequently fix ankiel.

 

Rich Hill is fixed? Wow. Talk about overreacting to a second-hand report from a rookie league game.

 

he's certainly making vast improvments, which is more than he ever did under rothschild.

 

Well, you've been hammering Larry Rothschild for screwing up Hill for months, long before Rich Hill had his single good performance against 18 year old rookie leaguers. Obviously your opinion doesn't depend on whether Hill *can* be fixed; you had blamed Rothschild before Hill made any progress at all. With that framework, is it Dave Duncan's fault that Rick Ankiel imploded?

 

FOR THE 20TH TIME: NOT THE SAME FREAKING THING.

[Warren Brusstar]

hill's downfall came after his mechanics were changed. ankiel's was not.

 

How do you know this? Pitching coaches work with their pitchers on mechanics on a weekly basis. How do you know what Duncan was or wasn't telling Ankiel.

[Banedon]

hill's downfall came after his mechanics were changed. ankiel's was not.

 

How do you know this? Pitching coaches work with their pitchers on mechanics on a weekly basis. How do you know what Duncan was or wasn't telling Ankiel.

 

Ankiel's collapse began during the playoffs. Do you think they were changing Ankiel's mechanics during the playoffs?

[Warren Brusstar]

funny/sad that it took the big league staff hardly any time at all to presumably ruin 2 1/2 years of good rich hill and less than two weeks for the minor league staff to get him back on track (hopefully).

 

Your continued implication that none of this is Rich Hill's fault (and that big bad Lou Piniella and Larry Rothschild ruined poor Rich) is maddening.

 

where did i say that none of this was hill's fault? clearly the problem snowballed and became mental when his mechanics got out of whack, and i'm sure a lot of that was hill's "fault."

 

and i'm sorry i'm causing you so much mental distress. but if this whole ordeal doesn't make you question rothschild's competence, i don't know what to tell you.

 

Was Rick Ankiel's meltdown Dave Duncan's fault? Is he incompetent too?

 

no one was able to subsequently fix ankiel.

 

Rich Hill is fixed? Wow. Talk about overreacting to a second-hand report from a rookie league game.

 

he's certainly making vast improvments, which is more than he ever did under rothschild.

 

Well, you've been hammering Larry Rothschild for screwing up Hill for months, long before Rich Hill had his single good performance against 18 year old rookie leaguers. Obviously your opinion doesn't depend on whether Hill *can* be fixed; you had blamed Rothschild before Hill made any progress at all. With that framework, is it Dave Duncan's fault that Rick Ankiel imploded?

 

 

 

FOR THE 20TH TIME: NOT THE SAME FREAKING THING.

 

I'm sorry that you don't like the answer, but it's a meaningful analogy and shows how absurd your argument is. Should Larry Rothschild share some of the blame? Of course. But the notion that poor Rich Hill would be mowing down majoe league hitters right now if Rothschild hadn't forced him to become bad is laughable.

[Warren Brusstar]

hill's downfall came after his mechanics were changed. ankiel's was not.

 

How do you know this? Pitching coaches work with their pitchers on mechanics on a weekly basis. How do you know what Duncan was or wasn't telling Ankiel.

 

Ankiel's collapse began during the playoffs. Do you think they were changing Ankiel's mechanics during the playoffs?

 

It's certainly possible. I don't know one way or the other. (Nor do you) If a pitcher has a bad inning during the playoffs, do you think his pitching coach says NOTHING to him about his mechanics?

[Banedon]

hill's downfall came after his mechanics were changed. ankiel's was not.

 

How do you know this? Pitching coaches work with their pitchers on mechanics on a weekly basis. How do you know what Duncan was or wasn't telling Ankiel.

 

Ankiel's collapse began during the playoffs. Do you think they were changing Ankiel's mechanics during the playoffs?

 

It's certainly possible. I don't know one way or the other. (Nor do you) If a pitcher has a bad inning during the playoffs, do you think his pitching coach says NOTHING to him about his mechanics?

 

Sure...to reinforce the mechanics he's been using successfully. Not to change mechanics that have been successful.

 

You're right, I don't know, but I can intelligently surmise that they didn't decide during the playoffs to tell Rick Ankiel to quit using the mechanics that he'd been successful with and try to pitch a different way.

[abuck1220]

hill's downfall came after his mechanics were changed. ankiel's was not.

 

How do you know this? Pitching coaches work with their pitchers on mechanics on a weekly basis. How do you know what Duncan was or wasn't telling Ankiel.

 

because i've never heard of it being due to his mechanics. and like, banedon said, he fell apart during the bright lights of the playoffs which would lead most people to believe that it was a mental issue and not a "hey, it's game 2 of the playoffs, wanna try something different?" issue.