Eric Patterson in Lou Piniella's dog house

[treebird]

it's not really fair for lou or anyone to get mad about eric's arm. he's a second baseman, and everyone should have known it was going to be lousy from the beginning. if the arm of the left fielder is a priority, patterson is not a good option to play there.

 

i'm sure he wishes it was better too, but it's not, and it's not going to change significantly in the short term.

[CubinNY]

 

That said, my thesis is simple: Lou does not discriminate against young players. The fact that they sent Pie down (exception, not the rule) does not change this.

 

Then you haven't been watching Lou for the past 1 1/2. Pie is the rule. Theriot is only playing b/c there is no one else Lou is comfortable with (read, no vet). Barrett was a very dumb baseball payers and an even worse defensive catcher, Soto has produced. And even then it took them almost an entire year of Koye Hill and Rob Bowen to give him a shot. With Lou, if you're a first or second year player you better produce right away and you better not make any mistakes because you only get one shot.

 

He's as old school as they come. The difference between Dusty and Lou is that Lou lives in a reality based world and Dusty doesn't.

[nolanwood]

 

That said, my thesis is simple: Lou does not discriminate against young players. The fact that they sent Pie down (exception, not the rule) does not change this.

 

Then you haven't been watching Lou for the past 1 1/2. Pie is the rule. Theriot is only playing b/c there is no one else Lou is comfortable with (read, no vet). Barrett was a very dumb baseball payers and an even worse defensive catcher, Soto has produced. With Lou, if you're a first or second year player you better produce right away and you better not make any mistakes because you only get one shot.

 

He's as old school as they come. The difference between Dusty and Lou is that Lou lives in a reality based world and Dusty doesn't.

 

I don't think Lou is "as old school as they come"....

 

The Cubs organization as a whole is in win-now mode. The organizational viewpoint is that now isn't the time to exercise patience or give young, blossoming players the appropriate time to develop at the big league level.

 

:scratch:

[CubinNY]

 

That said, my thesis is simple: Lou does not discriminate against young players. The fact that they sent Pie down (exception, not the rule) does not change this.

 

Then you haven't been watching Lou for the past 1 1/2. Pie is the rule. Theriot is only playing b/c there is no one else Lou is comfortable with (read, no vet). Barrett was a very dumb baseball payers and an even worse defensive catcher, Soto has produced. With Lou, if you're a first or second year player you better produce right away and you better not make any mistakes because you only get one shot.

 

He's as old school as they come. The difference between Dusty and Lou is that Lou lives in a reality based world and Dusty doesn't.

 

I don't think Lou is "as old school as they come"....

 

The Cubs organization as a whole is in win-now mode. The organizational viewpoint is that now isn't the time to exercise patience or give young, blossoming players the appropriate time to develop at the big league level.

 

:scratch:

You can scratch your head all you want but the logic of your post makes little sense to me..

 

If the Cubs are in a win now mode

Then Lou should Play Murton in LF until Soriano comes back.

 

If the Cubs are in a win now mode

Then they shouldn't play young players out of position and then have a hissy when they make a mistake.

 

It's almost a law of physics that players playing out of position will make mistakes. If one puts in player whose played infield almost his entire life in the outfield one is almost guaranteeing that mistakes will happen.

[ChiCubsfan0502]

I never said Patterson is ready to be playing every day at the big league level. I don't think there is any question that he shouldn't be. I do think E-Patt has a lot of talent and I hope he gets a fair shot in the future. There are plenty of players who have bad games, weeks, etc..

 

The fact E-Patt is a rookie who is playing out of position shouldn't be held against him, which is what I fear might happen. If we are going to trade him, benching him, or sending him down does nothing but dimish his trade value.

[nolanwood]

 

That said, my thesis is simple: Lou does not discriminate against young players. The fact that they sent Pie down (exception, not the rule) does not change this.

 

Then you haven't been watching Lou for the past 1 1/2. Pie is the rule. Theriot is only playing b/c there is no one else Lou is comfortable with (read, no vet). Barrett was a very dumb baseball payers and an even worse defensive catcher, Soto has produced. With Lou, if you're a first or second year player you better produce right away and you better not make any mistakes because you only get one shot.

 

He's as old school as they come. The difference between Dusty and Lou is that Lou lives in a reality based world and Dusty doesn't.

 

I don't think Lou is "as old school as they come"....

 

The Cubs organization as a whole is in win-now mode. The organizational viewpoint is that now isn't the time to exercise patience or give young, blossoming players the appropriate time to develop at the big league level.

 

:scratch:

You can scratch your head all you want but the logic of your post makes little sense to me..

 

If the Cubs are in a win now mode

Then Lou should Play Murton in LF until Soriano comes back.

 

If the Cubs are in a win now mode

Then they shouldn't play young players out of position and then have a hissy when they make a mistake.

 

It's almost a law of physics that players playing out of position will make mistakes. If one puts in player whose played infield almost his entire life in the outfield one is almost guaranteeing that mistakes will happen.

 

What makes little sense?

 

Murton has not produced when he was brought up this year (see patience remark). What doesn't make sense about that?

 

If the young players are hot and producing at the plate, they are attempting to get that hot bat in the lineup. I agree that they shouldn't throw a hissy fit they make a mistake playing outta position...

[RynoRules]

 

That said, my thesis is simple: Lou does not discriminate against young players. The fact that they sent Pie down (exception, not the rule) does not change this.

 

Then you haven't been watching Lou for the past 1 1/2. Pie is the rule. Theriot is only playing b/c there is no one else Lou is comfortable with (read, no vet). Barrett was a very dumb baseball payers and an even worse defensive catcher, Soto has produced. And even then it took them almost an entire year of Koye Hill and Rob Bowen to give him a shot. With Lou, if you're a first or second year player you better produce right away and you better not make any mistakes because you only get one shot.

 

He's as old school as they come. The difference between Dusty and Lou is that Lou lives in a reality based world and Dusty doesn't.

 

Your post is illogical and full of baseless spin. I'll take your assertions one at a time, and also point out some stuff you chose to leave out:

 

1) Theriot didn't get the job because no one else was on the roster. Theriot replaced Izturis, a marginal verteran.

2) Soto replaced veterans. The notion that Soto should have gotten a shot earlier than he did ignores the fact that, up until last season, he hadn't done anything to indicate he would be a good ML catcher.

3) Fontenot played 2B for quite a long time last season and has played quite a bit this season is pite of his struggles at the plate (hitting .230, last I looked).

4) Cedeno is on the team and has played well, getting spot starts at both MIF positions and being sent up to PH in crucial situations. He is blocked by a Theriot, not by some marginal vet like Izturis, Neifi or Macias.

5) Marmol is argauably the most important pitcher on the staff. Lou shows great faith in him, even when he struggles a bit.

6) When Hoff was up he played, and played quite a bit. The only reason he is down now is b/c Ward came off the DL.

 

And who the hell cares if Lou is "old school"? What the hell does that even mean? Just last week he was going on about how good someone's OBP is and how important that is. If "old school" means what I think you intend it to mean, then no, Lou is not "old school".

 

It's such a dumb, throw-away term. Right up there with calling every small, white, MIF'er "gritty".

[CubinNY]

 

That said, my thesis is simple: Lou does not discriminate against young players. The fact that they sent Pie down (exception, not the rule) does not change this.

 

Then you haven't been watching Lou for the past 1 1/2. Pie is the rule. Theriot is only playing b/c there is no one else Lou is comfortable with (read, no vet). Barrett was a very dumb baseball payers and an even worse defensive catcher, Soto has produced. And even then it took them almost an entire year of Koye Hill and Rob Bowen to give him a shot. With Lou, if you're a first or second year player you better produce right away and you better not make any mistakes because you only get one shot.

 

He's as old school as they come. The difference between Dusty and Lou is that Lou lives in a reality based world and Dusty doesn't.

 

Your post is illogical and full of baseless spin. I'll take your assertions one at a time, and also point out some stuff you chose to leave out:

 

1) Theriot didn't get the job because no one else was on the roster. Theriot replaced Izturis, a marginal verteran.

2) Soto replaced veterans. The notion that Soto should have gotten a shot earlier than he did ignores the fact that, up until last season, he hadn't done anything to indicate he would be a good ML catcher.

3) Fontenot played 2B for quite a long time last season and has played quite a bit this season is pite of his struggles at the plate (hitting .230, last I looked).

4) Cedeno is on the team and has played well, getting spot starts at both MIF positions and being sent up to PH in crucial situations. He is blocked by a Theriot, not by some marginal vet like Izturis, Neifi or Macias.

5) Marmol is argauably the most important pitcher on the staff. Lou shows great faith in him, even when he struggles a bit.

6) When Hoff was up he played, and played quite a bit. The only reason he is down now is b/c Ward came off the DL.

 

And who the hell cares if Lou is "old school"? What the hell does that even mean? Just last week he was going on about how good someone's OBP is and how important that is. If "old school" means what I think you intend it to mean, then no, Lou is not "old school".

 

It's such a dumb, throw-away term. Right up there with calling every small, white, MIF'er "gritty".

I'm not going to refute your points one by one, I'll just say this. The difference between Lou and Dusty is that Lou knows crap when he sees it. Theroit got a shot after Isturis sucked for more than a year (some Dusty time too)

Soto was producing in the minors for over a year and was a better player than Hill when they brought Hill up to catch.

 

Lou has little patience for young players that make mistakes, he demonstrated that over and over again.

 

If you don't think Lou is old school than you haven't seen him fill out a line-up card or payed much attention to how he and Larry handles a pitching staff. There is nothing necessarily wrong with that approach as long as he has the right tools with which to implement it.

[Guest]

EP is never going to hit enough to play LF so there is no point in investing in him while trying to win a championship. This is clearly very different from the Pie situation and comparing the two is ridiculous. Really, if you want to criticize Lou and the organization, Pie and Hill are the models - not Patterson and Fontenot - players with very limited futures in the game.

[CubinNY]

EP is never going to hit enough to play LF so there is no point in investing in him while trying to win a championship. This is clearly very different from the Pie situation and comparing the two is ridiculous. Really, if you want to criticize Lou and the organization, Pie and Hill are the models - not Patterson and Fontenot - players with very limited futures in the game.

I can agree with this.

[reds44]

Corey can't hit, Eric can't field. Put the brothers together and you have a helluva player.

[NCCubFan]

Corey can't hit, Eric can't field. Put the brothers together and you have a helluva player.

Or the worst player in history (if you combine Corey's hitting with Eric's fielding). :D

[BCVM22]

Or the worst player in history (if you combine Corey's hitting with Eric's fielding). :D

 

Talk about science gone wrong.

[Guest]

Corey can't hit, Eric can't field. Put the brothers together and you have a helluva player.

 

if Eric could play 2b, he might be a serviceable major leaguer. I think increasing his versatility actually makes sense. Playing him everyday doesn't.

[TruffleShuffle]

i don't know what the point was of lou going out and dropping the f-bomb on gallagher about 10 times. because he gave up a double on an 0-2 pitch? it wasn't a bad pitch, and i'd rather see our pitchers forcing guys to hit tough 0-2 pitches than throwing the classic eye-high fastball or the 58-foot curveball on 0-2.

[ConstableRabbit]

i don't know what the point was of lou going out and dropping the f-bomb on gallagher about 10 times. because he gave up a double on an 0-2 pitch? it wasn't a bad pitch, and i'd rather see our pitchers forcing guys to hit tough 0-2 pitches than throwing the classic eye-high fastball or the 58-foot curveball on 0-2.

Lou and Gallagher both said something like Lou was trying to light a fire under Gally's ass.

[ConstableRabbit]

I think it's clear that Lou just doesn't have patients for young players who make fundamental mistakes. Hill's lack of control, Murton and EPatt on defense. It might not be the best approach (especially with Hill), but I think of it as "If you're not going to hit and you want to stay up here, at least play fundamentally sound"

[rynefan]

Regardless of the reasons or his experience in the position, it's killing this team right now. The Sox made a joke out of him Friday, trying to purposely hit it to him, run on him, and test his arm at every possible turn, and he failed it every time, too. There was a point in Friday's game where I couldn't even stand to watch another ball go out there!!!

[Tracer Bullet]

Regardless of the reasons or his experience in the position, it's killing this team right now. The Sox made a joke out of him Friday, trying to purposely hit it to him, run on him, and test his arm at every possible turn, and he failed it every time, too. There was a point in Friday's game where I couldn't even stand to watch another ball go out there!!!

 

Lou should have realized this and moved him to 2B or taken him out. Again - the majors is not the place to learn a new defensive position.

[Athletics36]

i don't know what the point was of lou going out and dropping the f-bomb on gallagher about 10 times. because he gave up a double on an 0-2 pitch? it wasn't a bad pitch, and i'd rather see our pitchers forcing guys to hit tough 0-2 pitches than throwing the classic eye-high fastball or the 58-foot curveball on 0-2.

Lou and Gallagher both said something like Lou was trying to light a fire under Gally's ass.

 

I have no problem with Lou going out there and "ripping Sean a new one on national tv". I had no trouble reading Lou's lips, but as they both said Lou was trying to light a fire under his ass..... :lol: Sean left to many pitches up and over the plate and good hitters are going to make you pay. I watched the game again last night and the pitch to Dye was exactly were Geo was set-up and Dye put a good swing on it. Same with the homerun to the 2B that pitch was outside probably little to high but he pulls it to left field. It was great to see Sean settle down and finish the way he did and as everybody has told him this experience it will only make him better. Also this was his first apperance in the "Crosstown classic" and I'm sure he was a little amped up in the beginning and was trying to hard to make the perfect pitch.

[javy knows my name]

E-Patt could not possibly be worse at second because he could at least hide his noodle arm. I could've thrown out Quentin on that play.

[TruffleShuffle]

i don't know what the point was of lou going out and dropping the f-bomb on gallagher about 10 times. because he gave up a double on an 0-2 pitch? it wasn't a bad pitch, and i'd rather see our pitchers forcing guys to hit tough 0-2 pitches than throwing the classic eye-high fastball or the 58-foot curveball on 0-2.

Lou and Gallagher both said something like Lou was trying to light a fire under Gally's ass.

 

I have no problem with Lou going out there and "ripping Sean a new one on national tv". I had no trouble reading Lou's lips, but as they both said Lou was trying to light a fire under his ass..... :lol: Sean left to many pitches up and over the plate and good hitters are going to make you pay. I watched the game again last night and the pitch to Dye was exactly were Geo was set-up and Dye put a good swing on it. Same with the homerun to the 2B that pitch was outside probably little to high but he pulls it to left field. It was great to see Sean settle down and finish the way he did and as everybody has told him this experience it will only make him better. Also this was his first apperance in the "Crosstown classic" and I'm sure he was a little amped up in the beginning and was trying to hard to make the perfect pitch.

 

i thought he did all right given the national stage. the white sox have really been hitting the ball great this month as well, so it was a tough assignment. there were some good pitches that the sox were still able to hit hard. i'd like to see sean be more aggressive when he gets ahead in the count 0-2, throwing tough strikes rather than junk balls that almost nobody will swing at, but that's a beef that i have with about 90% of the pitchers in the league. i think it's just how they're taught these days.

[rynefan]

The thing is, most years for the Cubs all these rookies getting a go on the big leagues wouldn't be any big deal. They team normally isn't that great so go for it. But this year we have more than a realistic chance, and half the time our lineup is full of rookies. And add to that trying a rookie at a new position? It's just nuts. On the plus side EPatt makes Soriano's defense in left field look superb What irritates me the most about him is half the time he seems to not only blow the play but totally dog it. Friday was just unbearable in that regard.

[davearm2]

It's really crazy how fixated everyone is on Lou's quick hook with young guys.

 

He's got a quick hook with *all* guys.

 

If you make mistakes and/or stink, you're not going to play.

 

Izturis

Barrett

K Hill

Bowen

Trachsel

Craig Monroe

Pagan

Wade Miller

Ohman

 

That list is just as long as Pie, Murton, Patterson, etc.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I know it's not the only thing people got mad at him about, but blaming Patterson for allowing whoever that was to tag from first base is ridiculous. He had to go away from first to track the ball, and had either of the middle infielders(especially Fontenot) done their job and told him the runner was tagging, he would've thrown the runner out rather easily without the hesitation and double clutch that came with being surprised at the tagging runner.