Jose Reyes for Z (H2H Keeper League)

[MojoJojo]

H2H/Keeper...I have received an offer I wanted to run by the experts.

 

I give up:

- Jose Reyes

- Erik Bedard

 

I receive:

- Carlos Zambrano

- Scott Kazmir

 

My initial reaction is to jump on it before the guy changes his mind.

Yunel Escobar or Stephen Drew would fill in my SS slot.

Is there anything I'm missing here?

Thanks.

[sneakypower]

oh nasty dont do it

[jyoung55]

I'm no expert but I'd probably do it.... with a big caveat saying that it depends on the league's stats and what you need and do well in. If its one of those leagues like the two that I am in that over value premium starting pitching I'd do it... then you have Escobar to step in.

[Clem Fandango]

If Kazmir wasn't such an injury risk, I might do it. But Bedard is also an injury risk. He's only had one fully healthy year in his last 4.

 

It depends on how your pitching staff is. Bedard is pushing 30, while Zambrano and Kazmir are still young. Reyes is pretty much runs scored and stolen bases. I really don't think he's as great as the media would lead everyone to believe. It all depends. Zambrano will always be a solid starter, give good amount of stikeouts, and likely never get hurt (at least not for a long time), but Kazmir is always an injury risk and has already had a setback this year. But when he's healthy he's almost untouchable.

 

It'd be a toss up for me. I'm not a big fan of Bedard's health history. Trading Bedard and getting two pitchers back isn't a bad deal. Reyes I wouldn't worry about if you have Drew and Escobar. The more I think about it this is how I see it:

 

You give Bedard (injury risk, getting older, very good)

 

You get Zambrano (never hurt, still young, very good) and Kazmir (injury risk, very young, extremely good).

 

Zambrano's health and solidity should balanceo ut the loss of Bedard and any future loss of Kazmir.

 

I don't know, I think in the end I'd pull the trigger, but that's just me. That and I don't really like Jose Reyes so I'm not really taking that into consideration so keep that in mind.

[sneakypower]

Reyes is by far the best player in the trade, and the rest of the players don't reconcile out to much. You'd make a mistake to accept it.

[Clem Fandango]

Reyes is by far the best player in the trade, and the rest of the players don't reconcile out to much. You'd make a mistake to accept it.

 

I think from a legitimate baseball standpoint you're correct, but from a fantasy standpoint you're way off. Reyes is a good player, but in Fantasy, at this point, he's not hitting for much power, he's not hitting for much average, and he doesn't drive in any runs. He's good for scoring runs and stealing bases. He's becoming no more different than Chone Figgins at this point, a guy who hits well enough, but you mainly play for his steals. He's essentially a two category fantasy player at this point

 

Zambrano and Kazmir, on the other hand, on average, will give you good K's, ERA, decent WHIP, and get you a good chunk of wins with the way both their teams are playing. They can help contribute in more categories than Reyes can at this point. And by adding two above average pitchers, you're essentially doubling what Bedard can offer.

 

Going through with the trade will lose a lot of steals. But Drew is starting to come around and hit well (he's got a 121 OPS+ compared to Reyes' 101) and in the end, Escobar and Drew will produce in more places than Reyes will I'm willing to bet.

[sneakypower]

there's a lot to be said about a guy who can carry an entire category at a really thin position.

 

and while 12 HRs last year doesn't really stand out, there's only 4 SS worth owning who were markedly better than that (i'm assuming Greene, Peralta, Hardy aren't owned, and Guillen sheds his SS status after the year). he's a small detriment in RBI and about neutral for AVG but he more than makes up for that with his terrific run totals and ridiculous SB. as he showed in 06, he has legitimate top-5 player in fantasy baseball upside.

 

he's still only 24 need i remind you, oh how i'd love to get my grubby mitts on him in a keeper league.

[MojoJojo]

Thanks for the input and debate. It's valuable to see how you guys think about it. I've been going back and forth for a lot of the same reasons. Some other considerations:

- The league has goofy scoring which includes categories for bb, k, obp, slg. Fielding is also included, so errors and fielding% factor in too.

- Pitching categories include avg against, obp against, k/9, and k/bb.

- My team is currently 1st in batting and 4th in pitching (3rd overall).

 

I agree with Cro Magnon that 70+ steals, 110+ runs, and 10+ hr from your ss isn't something you just give away. I also agree with The Logan that I would probably get more balanced production across the board from my other options at ss.

 

In the final analysis, I'm willing to trade Reyes. I think it's Bedard who is holding me back. The scoring values high strikeout/low walk pitchers. It's H2H so accumulation isn't important. Winning steals by 10 every week isn't any better than winning by 1. Same goes for strikeouts. But more strikeouts contribute to multiple stats for pitchers (avg, obp, k/9, k/bb). There's nothing analogous for hitters - steals are just steals. Not to devalue what Reyes brings to the table, but in this league the premium is on quality starting pitching (the leader has the best pitching team and is 7th in overall batting). That's why I said my first reaction was to jump on it. I guess I need to try to talk him into a pitcher other than Bedard.

 

-- edit to clarify: There's nothing analogous for Reyes's strengths - steals are just steals. (And for that matter, runs are just runs.)

[MojoJojo]

Got Bedard off the table. New deal is:

 

I give up:

Jose Reyes

Johnny Cueto

Billy Wagner

 

I receive:

Carlos Zambrano

Scott Kazmir

[Clem Fandango]

Me, personally, I do that tradei n a heartbeat. Cueto has shown he's fluky, plus the Dusty Baker factor, and he hasn't really been that dominant as he was his first few starts. Wagner is good, but still old. And you know how I feel about Reyes. So you'd have a Top 3 of Bedard, Z, and Kazmir. That's filthy.

 

Who are your other closers? If you don't have many closers you might want to think about it, but if you have plenty to back up the loss of Wagner, I would do it in a hurry, but that's just me.

 

Actually, out of curiosity, who all is on your team?

[MojoJojo]

I did do that deal. It does leave me a little thin at closer, but the scoring includes holds as well as saves so I'll be ok filling in some late relief guys with high strikeouts who have a chance to move into a closer role. There are also some saves to be had on the wire.

 

It's a 12 team keeper H2H with 7 keepers per team. After the trade, I have:

 

Soto ©, Jackson (1B), Phillips (2B), Atkins (3B), Drew (SS), Holliday (LF), BJ Upton (CF), Fukudome (RF), Quentin (OF), Escobar (MI), Fielder (CI), Kemp (OF), Damon (Bench)

 

SP: Bedard, Zambrano, Kazmir, Harden, Eveland, Billingsley, Olsen, Slowey, Scherzer, Wellemeyer, Liriano, Kershaw

 

RP: Percival, Devine, Aquilino Lopez

 

DL: Smoltz, Pedro Martinez

 

I also have an empty roster slot at the moment after trading 3 players for 2.

[Hosak8]

there's a lot to be said about a guy who can carry an entire category at a really thin position.

 

and while 12 HRs last year doesn't really stand out, there's only 4 SS worth owning who were markedly better than that (i'm assuming Greene, Peralta, Hardy aren't owned, and Guillen sheds his SS status after the year). he's a small detriment in RBI and about neutral for AVG but he more than makes up for that with his terrific run totals and ridiculous SB. as he showed in 06, he has legitimate top-5 player in fantasy baseball upside.

 

he's still only 24 need i remind you, oh how i'd love to get my grubby mitts on him in a keeper league.

 

It's head to head. There are no "categories" to carry. Anyone who answered this guys post did so from a perspective of complete and total ignorance. Unless you understand the scoring system of his league, you have no idea if this is a good offer or not.

 

If his league places no value on steals (my keeper league, for example, scores .25 points for a steal and deducts .5 points for being caught stealing) then Reyes' value goes way down.