LaRussa-The Substance Abuse Enabler

[BudHouse]

Check out the latest story about the sad St. Louis Cardinals manager-Tony LaRussa on MLB.com. Squire Tony has wanted to sign Barry Bonds for the past two seasons, although cooler and obviously smarter front office heads prevailed. LaRussa once again overlooks the substance abuse issue about Bonds and says that Bond's problems were 'stand-offish attitude',etc.. but he wanted Bonds to protect Pujols. He still doesn't get it.

 

I'd like for LaRussa to be called in front of Congress, raise his hand and be asked about his knowledge of substance abuse with Conseco, McGwire(Woo-Hoo!!!) and other Cardinals.

[seanimal]

If the Cardinals signed Barry Bonds, I would buy the jersey shirt and wear it out of spite from this kind of... stuff.

 

Seriously, a "substance abuse enabler"? The man's a freaking baseball genius. Can we please let this silly hatred of TLR die already. If people said the same nonsensical and unwarranted crap about me I'd probably drink myself into a stupor and park my car in the middle of a Florida intersection just to remind myself I'm still alive.

 

also, pardon me for being willing to shrug off that a bunch of dumb athletes didn't properly weigh the ethical and physical consequences of their actions when millions of dollars were being waved in their faces and no one was actually there to tell them it was a bad idea.

 

and please, I can hear the "save the children" argument coming from a mile away, so don't even bother.

 

[/thread]

[Keener98]

Tony Larussa is a baseball genius? Are you kidding me?

[Banedon]

I'm glad TLR didn't get his way. No thanks to facing Bonds that often. That said, I think there's too much baggage...too much circus that goes along with Bonds now for a team that thinks they are in contention to try to work around.

[seanimal]

Tony Larussa is a baseball genius? Are you kidding me?

 

Anybody getting fired by Pigeon-brain Harrelson has to be doing something right.

 

 

 

Lets put two and two together in a simple yet elegantly appropriate fashion:

 

The Cardinals teams of recent memory have been notorious among Cubs fans for overperforming.

 

+

 

Tony LaRussa has been the manager of those Cardinals teams of recent memory.

 

=

 

_________________________________

[BudHouse]

Lets put two and two together in a simple yet elegantly appropriate fashion:

 

The Cardinals teams of recent memory have been notorious among Cubs fans for overperforming.

 

+

 

Tony LaRussa has been the manager of those Cardinals teams of recent memory.

 

=

 

_________________________________

 

Tony LaRussa was manager of those Cardinals teams when McGwire played, Kile died with dope in the bathroom, Hancock died drunk in a car accident and on and on. At least ten years+ of St. Louis leadership and looking the other way. I'm just thankful that Leonard Little plays for the Rams and got off light for drinking and then killing 3 people with his SUV. The Genius would have made him a bench coach.

[Soul]

Seriously, a "substance abuse enabler"?

 

Yes, seriously.

 

The man's a freaking baseball genius.

 

I think he's a pretty good manager, but this has nothing to do with whether he's a substance abuse enabler.

 

Can we please let this silly hatred of TLR die already.

 

There's a difference between hatred, and just stating the facts. Look at the reality -- drugs are all around the man, his players, himself. It's obviously a problem. I'm not saying there isn't bias against LaRussa on this board, because obviously there's going to be. But there happens to be some factual support as well.

 

If people said the same nonsensical and unwarranted crap about me I'd probably drink myself into a stupor and park my car in the middle of a Florida intersection just to remind myself I'm still alive.

 

I doubt he cares what people think about him, to be honest.

[DenverCubs]

Lets put two and two together in a simple yet elegantly appropriate fashion:

 

The Cardinals teams of recent memory have been notorious among Cubs fans for overperforming.

 

+

 

Tony LaRussa has been the manager of those Cardinals teams of recent memory.

 

=

 

_________________________________

 

Tony LaRussa was manager of those Cardinals teams when McGwire played, Kile died with dope in the bathroom, Hancock died drunk in a car accident and on and on. At least ten years+ of St. Louis leadership and looking the other way. I'm just thankful that Leonard Little plays for the Rams and got off light for drinking and then killing 3 people with his SUV. The Genius would have made him a bench coach.

Do you honestly think that these grown men are talked into drinking and drugging by their manager, or that he encourages that kind of behavior? You think a 26 year old man tries to emulate his drunken coach because he respects him so much?

I don't think a manager has much to do with any players behavior off the field.

[mul21]

Do you honestly think that these grown men are talked into drinking and drugging by their manager, or that he encourages that kind of behavior? You think a 26 year old man tries to emulate his drunken coach because he respects him so much?

I don't think a manager has much to do with any players behavior off the field.

 

You don't think the manner in which leadership conducts themselves has anything to do with the way the rest of a "business" conducts itself? I don't think anybody is saying Tony held a gun to their heads and said "Drink or you're cut from the team", but I certainly don't think he has exactly provided an environment where drinking and driving, PEDs, and recreational drug use are strongly discouraged. For all the stuff that went on with LaRussa before the initial incident with Hancock happened, you would think somebody would have taken the bull by the horns and said something to the guy about scaling back the partying a little.

[DenverCubs]

Do you honestly think that these grown men are talked into drinking and drugging by their manager, or that he encourages that kind of behavior? You think a 26 year old man tries to emulate his drunken coach because he respects him so much?

I don't think a manager has much to do with any players behavior off the field.

 

You don't think the manner in which leadership conducts themselves has anything to do with the way the rest of a "business" conducts itself? I don't think anybody is saying Tony held a gun to their heads and said "Drink or you're cut from the team", but I certainly don't think he has exactly provided an environment where drinking and driving, PEDs, and recreational drug use are strongly discouraged. For all the stuff that went on with LaRussa before the initial incident with Hancock happened, you would think somebody would have taken the bull by the horns and said something to the guy about scaling back the partying a little.

I definitely don't think it should...that's my point. If some idiot mimics his manager or thinks because "he does it, I can do it", that's hardly the manager's fault. These aren't middle schoolers, they can make their own decisions. He's responsible for his own drug problems, not his players. LaRussa probably should have talked to guys who had obvious PED or alcohol problems (and he might have, I don't know) but he shouldn't have to police them.

[mul21]

Do you honestly think that these grown men are talked into drinking and drugging by their manager, or that he encourages that kind of behavior? You think a 26 year old man tries to emulate his drunken coach because he respects him so much?

I don't think a manager has much to do with any players behavior off the field.

 

You don't think the manner in which leadership conducts themselves has anything to do with the way the rest of a "business" conducts itself? I don't think anybody is saying Tony held a gun to their heads and said "Drink or you're cut from the team", but I certainly don't think he has exactly provided an environment where drinking and driving, PEDs, and recreational drug use are strongly discouraged. For all the stuff that went on with LaRussa before the initial incident with Hancock happened, you would think somebody would have taken the bull by the horns and said something to the guy about scaling back the partying a little.

I definitely don't think it should...that's my point. If some idiot mimics his manager or thinks because "he does it, I can do it", that's hardly the manager's fault. These aren't middle schoolers, they can make their own decisions. He's responsible for his own drug problems, not his players. LaRussa probably should have talked to guys who had obvious PED or alcohol problems (and he might have, I don't know) but he shouldn't have to police them.

 

I think being able to see these things and intervene before they become a problem is a trait any good manager (baseball, business, whatever) should have. And any company worth it's salt has a program that all managers are required to go through to help them identify substance abuse issues and showthem how to properly intervene.

 

The other thing you have to remember is that a lot of baseball players, because of the nature of the minor leagues system, don't have anything more than a high school education (and some less than that in the case of a lot of the Latin players I would guess) and never really participated in society in a normal way because they've been isolated and pampered because they're good at baseball, and because of this they never really had a chance to "grow up" emotionally.

[BudHouse]

The Cardinals even provided booze in the clubhouse for the players and took them 5 days after Hancock died, before they stopped it. The manager is responsible for the clubhouse. That's a great management team and so responsive.

 

What's a Cardinal player supposed to think: I can use roids, because they didn't say anything to McGwire. I can drink after the game, when I'm tired and then drive home-because the manager did it and they provide the booze in the clubhouse for me. The only thing missing are the hookers and Ray Lankford.

[seanimal]

all excellent points (i'm being facetious)

 

 

 

Riddle me this angry mob:

 

Is it the dude in charge at the micky d's down the street's fault that the cashier has a nasty tendency to behave dangerously away from his supervision?

 

This is your argument.

 

[/thread]

[TheGrinch]

When does Tony's vehicular homicide trial start in the Hancock case?

[Soul]

all excellent points (i'm being facetious)

 

 

 

Riddle me this angry mob:

 

Is it the dude in charge at the micky d's down the street's fault that the cashier has a nasty tendency to behave dangerously away from his supervision?

 

This is your argument.

 

[/thread]

 

Thread's not over until I say it is!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

ok [/thread]

[Guest]

Do you honestly think that these grown men are talked into drinking and drugging by their manager, or that he encourages that kind of behavior? You think a 26 year old man tries to emulate his drunken coach because he respects him so much?

I don't think a manager has much to do with any players behavior off the field.

 

You don't think the manner in which leadership conducts themselves has anything to do with the way the rest of a "business" conducts itself? I don't think anybody is saying Tony held a gun to their heads and said "Drink or you're cut from the team", but I certainly don't think he has exactly provided an environment where drinking and driving, PEDs, and recreational drug use are strongly discouraged. For all the stuff that went on with LaRussa before the initial incident with Hancock happened, you would think somebody would have taken the bull by the horns and said something to the guy about scaling back the partying a little.

 

The first and third things I can understand but if you're going to criticize LaRussa for looking the other way on PED's you might as well criticize every single manager in baseball over the past 15 years. I'd be shocked to find a manager who didn't look the other way. Think about it: guys on roids perform better and can perform more often. Those players help the team win. The manager wants to keep his job. The more games a manager wins the less likely he is to get fired.

 

I'm not saying it's right but people will do what they can to keep a job especially in a market in which only 30 exist.

[CuseCubFan69]

Steve Phillips just said that a team that may, though he doubts any team will, take a flier on Clemens might be the one and only Cards.

[TruffleShuffle]

all excellent points (i'm being facetious)

 

 

 

Riddle me this angry mob:

 

Is it the dude in charge at the micky d's down the street's fault that the cashier has a nasty tendency to behave dangerously away from his supervision?

 

This is your argument.

 

[/thread]

 

uh, what? if the guy at mcdonald's is behaving dangerously while on the job, then your point has merit. otherwise, it's stupid.

[seanimal]

all excellent points (i'm being facetious)

 

 

 

Riddle me this angry mob:

 

Is it the dude in charge at the micky d's down the street's fault that the cashier has a nasty tendency to behave dangerously away from his supervision?

 

This is your argument.

 

[/thread]

 

uh, what? if the guy at mcdonald's is behaving dangerously while on the job, then your point has merit. otherwise, it's stupid.

 

Just curious, what was my point?

[cubscausestress]

ummm. drugs 'r bad. mmmkay

[TruffleShuffle]

all excellent points (i'm being facetious)

 

 

 

Riddle me this angry mob:

 

Is it the dude in charge at the micky d's down the street's fault that the cashier has a nasty tendency to behave dangerously away from his supervision?

 

This is your argument.

 

[/thread]

 

uh, what? if the guy at mcdonald's is behaving dangerously while on the job, then your point has merit. otherwise, it's stupid.

 

Just curious, what was my point?

 

i'm not sure, but i find myself asking that question frequently.

[Keener98]

While I dont really agree with the title, it does seem like Larussa is very quick to turn the other way when talking about drugs or steroids.

 

"As long as these guys are human beings," manager Tony La Russa said, "and somebody gets accused of something that he didn't do anything wrong -- I'm not sure who it's not going to bother unless you're the coldest guy on the face of the earth."

 

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080222&content_id=2385161&vkey=spt2008news&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl

 

How can he say Ankiel did nothing wrong, and try making Ankiel a victim? Pleeeease

Edited February 26, 2008 by Keener98

[CuseCubFan69]

While I dont really agree with the title, it does seem like Larussa is very quick to turn the other way when talking about drugs or steroids.

 

"As long as these guys are human beings," manager Tony La Russa said, "and somebody gets accused of something that he didn't do anything wrong -- I'm not sure who it's not going to bother unless you're the coldest guy on the face of the earth."

 

 

So Tony hates Barry?

 

He won a lot of games with the roid boys so I'm sure he's going to turn the other cheek...so to speak.

[seanimal]

Just curious, what was my point?

 

i'm not sure, but i find myself asking that question frequently.

 

I think it's pretty clear what my point is. Blaming LaRussa for the deaths of players and for steroid use is one of the dumbest arguments I've ever heard.

 

Hence, the McDonalds analogy. If these players are behaving dangerously outside of TLR's realm of responsibility, then there's really nothing he can do about it.

 

We live in a society that, in general, is pretty cavalier about drug/pharmaceutical/alcohol use. This is going to be reflected in any enterprise our society is going to engage in, regardless as to whether or not we glorify those people or the things they're doing. Being shocked that these players were injecting themselves with whatever to attempt to get ahead or partying hard after games strikes me as not only completely ignorant and unrealistic, it's DUMB.

 

Furthermore, blaming Tony LaRussa for decisions made by the players in an environment/league/industry/society where NO ONE WAS DOING ANYTHING OR TELLING ANYONE IT WAS A BAD IDEA is just monumentally idiotic. It's ignoring context in a situation where context determined everything. Plus, the heaving of clumsy moral judgments kind of reminds me of monkeys in the zoo tossing around their crap. It's a display to let the other monkeys know you're around, but ultimately you're just taking a dump in your hand and trying to hit something with it.

 

Kind of like following me around, failing to comprehend my sentences, and then calling them stupid.

[Keener98]

While I dont really agree with the title, it does seem like Larussa is very quick to turn the other way when talking about drugs or steroids.

 

"As long as these guys are human beings," manager Tony La Russa said, "and somebody gets accused of something that he didn't do anything wrong -- I'm not sure who it's not going to bother unless you're the coldest guy on the face of the earth."

 

 

So Tony hates Barry?

 

He won a lot of games with the roid boys so I'm sure he's going to turn the other cheek...so to speak.

 

 

Sorry that quote is referring to Rick Ankiel I forgot to post the link.