Santana's been traded to a team in the northeast

[BigbadB]

According to the Bergen Record's Bob Klapisch, the Twins came back to the Yankees with an offer of Johan Santana for Melky Cabrera, Ian Kennedy and a prospect on Monday, only to be turned down.

 

If true, the Yankees declined the chance to acquire Santana without giving up Phil Hughes or Joba Chamberlain. Klapisch also believes the Red Sox had both Jacoby Ellsbury and Jon Lester off the table by the time the Twins chose to accept the Mets' offer.

 

#-o :shock: Wow...

 

The strangest part of all these rumors is that the package got worse and worse as time wore on. Typically, and especially once other players are no longer available due to free agent signings or trades that have already happened, teams get a little more spendy to ensure they get what they want.

 

Why on Earth would the Yankees turn down that deal?

 

 

I don't think their heart was ever in to committing that much money to a pitcher. As long as he's not headed to Boston they're happy.

 

 

They gave 90 mil to Mussina in 2000

 

Not to mention the hefty bills they were throwing at Clemens the last 2 years.

[Vanilla Ice]

Different philosophy back in 2000.

[haltz]

There wasn't a luxury tax until the 2003 CBA was there?

[Mephistopheles]

well clemens was a one night stand. santana is a relationship

[Mephistopheles]

There wasn't a luxury tax until the 2003 CBA was there?

 

do you think the yankees care? the one night stand comment with clemens goes away if that were the case

 

 

oh yeah and randy johnson

[haltz]

Do I think they care? Sure, but that's not why I think they were just fine with Santana going to the Mets. If I had to guess, I'd say it's partly the length, partly some new ideology from Cashman, and the fact that they aren't getting that much value for their young players if Santana is going to get a near-market value extension anyway.

 

It's one thing to pay a premium for one year of one pitcher, but another if they have long term goals to try and keep that sort of thing to a minimum anyway. Who knows, but the Clemens thing doesn't mean that they want to commit to that for seven years.

[BigbadB]

Santana>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mussina

 

The Yankees do not currently have a guy that projects as a #1 starter. Each Boston starter at their respective starting slots is better than the Yankees counterpart.

 

Beckett>>Wang

Schilling>>Mussina

DiceK>> Pettitte

Buccholz>>Hughes

Wakefield>>Pavano

Lester>>Chamberlain

??/Kennedy

??/Igawa

 

Santana changes that up a bit.

[Mephistopheles]

Their young player are a cost to ensure he takes their offer. It's like a posting fee....except we know Johan Santana's the #2 pitcher in baseball.

[haltz]

He's almost as good as Peavy though.

 

Whatever analogy you want to make, it's still value. I'm not surprised that teams weren't willing to give up a can't-miss guy just to pay Santana what he's worth (or a little less).

[Mephistopheles]

Santana>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mussina

 

The Yankees do not currently have a guy that projects as a #1 starter. Each Boston starter at their respective starting slots is better than the Yankees counterpart.

 

Beckett>>Wang

Schilling>>Mussina

DiceK>> Pettitte

Buccholz>>Hughes

Wakefield>>Pavano

Lester>>Chamberlain

??/Kennedy

??/Igawa

 

Santana changes that up a bit.

 

Not really on that one. Anyways I don't buy the argument that the Yankees are (should) just happy that Santana isn't in Boston. That school of thought has left them empty handed the last 7 years. They're still playing second fiddle to the Sox. They need to figure out what's best for the Yankees. And quite frankly, Santana for $300m is probably better for the Yankees than Rodriguez for $300m.

[Mephistopheles]

He's almost as good as Peavy though.

 

Whatever analogy you want to make, it's still value. I'm not surprised that teams weren't willing to give up a can't-miss guy just to pay Santana what he's worth (or a little less).

 

The problem was they were willing to give up Hughes a month and a half ago so that's not entirely true.

[haltz]

He's almost as good as Peavy though.

 

Whatever analogy you want to make, it's still value. I'm not surprised that teams weren't willing to give up a can't-miss guy just to pay Santana what he's worth (or a little less).

 

The problem was they were willing to give up Hughes a month and a half ago so that's not entirely true.

I don't think they were. And if they were then, they aren't now, or Bill Smith is [expletive].

[BigbadB]

Their young player are a cost to ensure he takes their offer. It's like a posting fee....except we know Johan Santana's the #2 pitcher in baseball.

 

And the #2 starting pitcher who will now be off the market for the next 5-7 years and NOT wearing Yankee pinstripes.

 

I'm cool with that, personally. I like seeing them miss out on the best players available. I just don't get what they are doing right now. Playing for the wild card?

 

Boston is clearly the better team right now.

[Mephistopheles]

He's almost as good as Peavy though.

 

Whatever analogy you want to make, it's still value. I'm not surprised that teams weren't willing to give up a can't-miss guy just to pay Santana what he's worth (or a little less).

 

The problem was they were willing to give up Hughes a month and a half ago so that's not entirely true.

I don't think they were. And if they were then, they aren't now, or Bill Smith is [expletive].

 

Well Bill Smith clearly screwed this situation up. I mean have you looked at his offseason?

[haltz]

He's almost as good as Peavy though.

 

Whatever analogy you want to make, it's still value. I'm not surprised that teams weren't willing to give up a can't-miss guy just to pay Santana what he's worth (or a little less).

 

The problem was they were willing to give up Hughes a month and a half ago so that's not entirely true.

I don't think they were. And if they were then, they aren't now, or Bill Smith is [expletive].

 

Well Bill Smith clearly screwed this situation up. I mean have you looked at his offseason?

It sure seems like he did, but if the Yankees turned down an offer for Kennedy and Cabrera, doesn't that speak more to the situation (like ever wanting to give up Hughes), than what Smith has done? I mean, Ellsbury's not exactly the second coming, no matter what the fanboys in Boston think. Was Boston really going to give up him and Lowrie and Lester and Masterson (or whatever it was)? I think it was just a bunch of posturing, and Smith had to settle for an offer that was worth something along the lines of the excess value of Santana (marginal wins + superstar premium/playoff sweet spot money - $150 million) and it really wasn't all that much.

 

Or Smith could have overplayed his hand and completely screwed the dog. But then why did the offers suck so much just one month later in the same offseason? I'm not saying that Bill Smith isn't an idiot, it just doesn't quite add up to me. Besides, the Twins always do weird stuff because they think they are talent evaluating geniuses and are operating on a different level.

[Mephistopheles]

Or Smith could have overplayed his hand and completely screwed the dog. But then why did the offers suck so much just one month later in the same offseason? I'm not saying that Bill Smith isn't an idiot. Besides, the Twins always do weird stuff because they think they are talent evaluating geniuses and are operating on a different level.

 

their success was primarily because of one move.

[haltz]

Or Smith could have overplayed his hand and completely screwed the dog. But then why did the offers suck so much just one month later in the same offseason? I'm not saying that Bill Smith isn't an idiot. Besides, the Twins always do weird stuff because they think they are talent evaluating geniuses and are operating on a different level.

 

their success was primarily because of one move.

Yes, and the Cardinals have somewhat lucked into success as well. My point is that they aren't a sabermetric team, but they (at least they think they are) are good at recognizing and developing amateur talent.

[Mephistopheles]

Or Smith could have overplayed his hand and completely screwed the dog. But then why did the offers suck so much just one month later in the same offseason? I'm not saying that Bill Smith isn't an idiot. Besides, the Twins always do weird stuff because they think they are talent evaluating geniuses and are operating on a different level.

 

their success was primarily because of one move.

Yes, and the Cardinals have somewhat lucked into success as well. My point is that they aren't a sabermetric team, but they (at least they think they are) are good at recognizing and developing amateur talent.

 

Who exactly have they developed outside of Joe Mauer who was someone they couldnt mess up. Justin Morneau and Matt Garza and that's about it.

 

1998 - Ryan Mills (6th overall)

1999 - BJ Garbe (5th overall)

2000 - Adam Johnson (2nd overall)

2001 - Joe Mauer (1st overall)

2002 - Denard Span

2003 - Matt Moses

2004 - Trevor Plouffe

2004 - Glen Perkins

2004 - Kyle Waldrop

2004 - Matt Fox

2004 - Jay Rainville

 

With the exception of the no brainer choice, that's about the worst run of drafting during that time frame in the first round in the non-Royals division.

[haltz]

They traded for Santana, Nathan, Silva, Bonser, Liriano, and Ortiz among others I guess. I'm talking about perception anyway.

[UMFan83]

Or Smith could have overplayed his hand and completely screwed the dog. But then why did the offers suck so much just one month later in the same offseason? I'm not saying that Bill Smith isn't an idiot. Besides, the Twins always do weird stuff because they think they are talent evaluating geniuses and are operating on a different level.

 

their success was primarily because of one move.

Yes, and the Cardinals have somewhat lucked into success as well. My point is that they aren't a sabermetric team, but they (at least they think they are) are good at recognizing and developing amateur talent.

 

Who exactly have they developed outside of Joe Mauer who was someone they couldnt mess up. Justin Morneau and Matt Garza and that's about it.

 

1998 - Ryan Mills (6th overall)

1999 - BJ Garbe (5th overall)

2000 - Adam Johnson (2nd overall)

2001 - Joe Mauer (1st overall)

2002 - Denard Span

2003 - Matt Moses

2004 - Trevor Plouffe

2004 - Glen Perkins

2004 - Kyle Waldrop

2004 - Matt Fox

2004 - Jay Rainville

 

With the exception of the no brainer choice, that's about the worst run of drafting during that time frame in the first round in the non-Royals division.

 

Pirates?

[Halman]

Or Smith could have overplayed his hand and completely screwed the dog. But then why did the offers suck so much just one month later in the same offseason? I'm not saying that Bill Smith isn't an idiot. Besides, the Twins always do weird stuff because they think they are talent evaluating geniuses and are operating on a different level.

 

their success was primarily because of one move.

Yes, and the Cardinals have somewhat lucked into success as well. My point is that they aren't a sabermetric team, but they (at least they think they are) are good at recognizing and developing amateur talent.

 

Who exactly have they developed outside of Joe Mauer who was someone they couldnt mess up. Justin Morneau and Matt Garza and that's about it.

 

1998 - Ryan Mills (6th overall)

1999 - BJ Garbe (5th overall)

2000 - Adam Johnson (2nd overall)

2001 - Joe Mauer (1st overall)

2002 - Denard Span

2003 - Matt Moses

2004 - Trevor Plouffe

2004 - Glen Perkins

2004 - Kyle Waldrop

2004 - Matt Fox

2004 - Jay Rainville

 

With the exception of the no brainer choice, that's about the worst run of drafting during that time frame in the first round in the non-Royals division.

 

Pirates?

 

Heck, the cubs

[Balsa]

Wow that's it?

 

Sucks for the Twins. I can't beleive the price was that low!

[cbbryan]

I can't believe the Angels didn't get involved. They could have easily beaten this offer from the Mets. Maybe it is true that the Twins didn't want him in the AL.

[CubColtPacer]

I can't believe the Angels didn't get involved. They could have easily beaten this offer from the Mets. Maybe it is true that the Twins didn't want him in the AL.

 

I doubt the Angels would have signed Santana to what he wanted. They are pretty hesitant in giving out huge deals like that.

[cbbryan]

I can't believe the Angels didn't get involved. They could have easily beaten this offer from the Mets. Maybe it is true that the Twins didn't want him in the AL.

 

I doubt the Angels would have signed Santana to what he wanted. They are pretty hesitant in giving out huge deals like that.

 

 

Maybe true, but that team would be crazy good with Santana as well.