Speed impact on pitchers?

[third eye]

I asked this as part of another post in transactions, but it doesn't belong there. Let me ask it here:

 

Has anyone seen stats for league-wide OPS for batters with a runner on base with 30+ steals the previous season? I haven't seen the numbers to refute/support whether speed on base disrupts a pitcher, and I am stubbornly holding on to the fact that it does until I see otherwise. Happy to admit I'm wrong if the stats disagree.

[Rob]

I asked this as part of another post in transactions, but it doesn't belong there. Let me ask it here:

 

Has anyone seen stats for league-wide OPS for batters with a runner on base with 30+ steals the previous season? I haven't seen the numbers to refute/support whether speed on base disrupts a pitcher, and I am stubbornly holding on to the fact that it does until I see otherwise. Happy to admit I'm wrong if the stats disagree.

 

The Book: Playing the Percentages in Baseball

 

"The disruptive runner has an enormously negative influence on the batter, enough to almost completely offset the disruption caused to the defense."

 

They estimate the total gain is .002 points of wOBA. Meanwhile, I seem to recall other studies that point towards it actually hurting the batter significantly. Interestingly enough, The Book seems to indicate that on the whole, a baserunner at first with less than two outs helps the batter... but the faster the runner on first, the worse the batter does.

[third eye]

I asked this as part of another post in transactions, but it doesn't belong there. Let me ask it here:

 

Has anyone seen stats for league-wide OPS for batters with a runner on base with 30+ steals the previous season? I haven't seen the numbers to refute/support whether speed on base disrupts a pitcher, and I am stubbornly holding on to the fact that it does until I see otherwise. Happy to admit I'm wrong if the stats disagree.

 

The Book: Playing the Percentages in Baseball

 

"The disruptive runner has an enormously negative influence on the batter, enough to almost completely offset the disruption caused to the defense."

 

They estimate the total gain is .002 points of wOBA. Meanwhile, I seem to recall other studies that point towards it actually hurting the batter significantly. Interestingly enough, The Book seems to indicate that on the whole, a baserunner at first with less than two outs helps the batter... but the faster the runner on first, the worse the batter does.

 

 

 

Thanks! I'll check the book out. I guess it has been referenced a number of times on this board. My bad.

 

So that must explain Neifi's performance with Juan on base in front of him 8-[

[nilodnayr]

THT did a study a while back and showed the affect was negligeble.

[Abe Frohman]

Negligeble? I don't understand how you can make a stat out of it. If anyone says that a baserunner can have no effect on a pitcher's pressure level and/or performance obviously has never played baseball before.

 

I agree that a batter who has a base-stealer on base while he hits may have a negative effect (a good batter will take pitches so the baserunner has a chance to steal - thus getting himself into an undesirable pitchcount), but I disagree that a pitcher is unaffected with a good base-stealer on a bag.

[fromthestretch]

Negligeble? I don't understand how you can make a stat out of it. If anyone says that a baserunner can have no effect on a pitcher's pressure level and/or performance obviously has never played baseball before.

 

I agree that a batter who has a base-stealer on base while he hits may have a negative effect (a good batter will take pitches so the baserunner has a chance to steal - thus getting himself into an undesirable pitchcount), but I disagree that a pitcher is unaffected with a good base-stealer on a bag.

 

Greg Maddux seems to have made a nice career for himself by largely ignoring baserunners (both fast and slow) over the past couple decades.

 

The effect that a fast runner can have on a pitcher's performance most likely decreases significantly as you climb the baseball ladder. A major league pitcher is not going to be distracted by a fast runner nearly as much as some high school pitcher would be.

[Mephistopheles]

thats because steals are worthless.

[cheapseats]

Negligeble? I don't understand how you can make a stat out of it. If anyone says that a baserunner can have no effect on a pitcher's pressure level and/or performance obviously has never played baseball before.

 

I agree that a batter who has a base-stealer on base while he hits may have a negative effect (a good batter will take pitches so the baserunner has a chance to steal - thus getting himself into an undesirable pitchcount), but I disagree that a pitcher is unaffected with a good base-stealer on a bag.

 

Did you read the article?

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/base-stealer-intangibles-part-2/

[Rob]

Negligeble? I don't understand how you can make a stat out of it. If anyone says that a baserunner can have no effect on a pitcher's pressure level and/or performance obviously has never played baseball before.

 

I agree that a batter who has a base-stealer on base while he hits may have a negative effect (a good batter will take pitches so the baserunner has a chance to steal - thus getting himself into an undesirable pitchcount), but I disagree that a pitcher is unaffected with a good base-stealer on a bag.

 

I'm sure pitchers are hurt by it. Hitters are hurt by it just as much. (The bad hitters get impatient and flail away at anything near the zone when the pitcher finally throws one across in between pickoff attempts. The good hitters take strikes.) In the end, it breaks even.

[Abe Frohman]

Negligeble? I don't understand how you can make a stat out of it. If anyone says that a baserunner can have no effect on a pitcher's pressure level and/or performance obviously has never played baseball before.

 

I agree that a batter who has a base-stealer on base while he hits may have a negative effect (a good batter will take pitches so the baserunner has a chance to steal - thus getting himself into an undesirable pitchcount), but I disagree that a pitcher is unaffected with a good base-stealer on a bag.

 

Did you read the article?

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/base-stealer-intangibles-part-2/

 

Of course not.

[forbez18]

I don't know how there could be no impact on the game itself. A baserunner who is a treat to steal can cause trouble a lot of different ways. The pitcher is forced to pay attention to the runner and once you get a pitcher thinking (Zambrano and Hill) it can cause a lot of trouble for them. Then there is the catcher who is forced to be anticpating a steal attempt and if there is a stat for wild pitches / pass balls with basestealers on base, I would bet that the rate is much greater then when no one is on. Then you always have the hit and run, throwing errors, elimination of double plays, forcing infielders to play out of position before the pitch, and even forcing them to move out of position on a base hit. It also can allow a someone to score from 1st base on a hit and run, or possibly get to 3rd with less then 2 outs with out another hit.

 

I know people like to shoot stats out, but you have to be able to understand that there is a lot that goes into the game of baseball besides stats. I know that they can tell a lot, but baseball is a mental game, and even if a base runner gets thrown out trying to steal, I have seen plenty of times where the next batter hits a HR. Many say he should never have stolen, but I think a lot of pitchers have a sense of relief and then throw a pitch right down the middle. If you have been a pitcher or catcher, I would find it hard to say a good base runner has no impact.

[CubinNY]

I don't know how there could be no impact on the game itself. A baserunner who is a treat to steal can cause trouble a lot of different ways. The pitcher is forced to pay attention to the runner and once you get a pitcher thinking (Zambrano and Hill) it can cause a lot of trouble for them. Then there is the catcher who is forced to be anticpating a steal attempt and if there is a stat for wild pitches / pass balls with basestealers on base, I would bet that the rate is much greater then when no one is on. Then you always have the hit and run, throwing errors, elimination of double plays, forcing infielders to play out of position before the pitch, and even forcing them to move out of position on a base hit. It also can allow a someone to score from 1st base on a hit and run, or possibly get to 3rd with less then 2 outs with out another hit.

 

I know people like to shoot stats out, but you have to be able to understand that there is a lot that goes into the game of baseball besides stats. I know that they can tell a lot, but baseball is a mental game, and even if a base runner gets thrown out trying to steal, I have seen plenty of times where the next batter hits a HR. Many say he should never have stolen, but I think a lot of pitchers have a sense of relief and then throw a pitch right down the middle. If you have been a pitcher or catcher, I would find it hard to say a good base runner has no impact.

 

If one goes to Kansas and looks out on the open plane it is not hard to believe that the earth is flat. Unfortunately the evidence suggests that the earth is indeed not flat.

[imb]

I know people like to shoot stats out, but you have to be able to understand that there is a lot that goes into the game of baseball besides stats. I know that they can tell a lot, but baseball is a mental game

 

Who was it that led the league in mental RBIs last year?

[fromthestretch]

If you have been a pitcher or catcher, I would find it hard to say a good base runner has no impact.

 

In my years of pitching, I realized that the hitter can do a lot more damage than the runner, so it's a no-brainer to focus on the hitter. If a guy steals second, he still hasn't scored, whereas if I groove one to the hitter, it could instantly lead to a couple runs. It is possible to throw over to keep the runner honest, yet still maintain focus on the hitter when delivering the ball to the plate.

[fromthestretch]

I know people like to shoot stats out, but you have to be able to understand that there is a lot that goes into the game of baseball besides stats. I know that they can tell a lot, but baseball is a mental game

 

Who was it that led the league in mental RBIs last year?

 

In my mind, I drove in 192. Take that, Hack Wilson.

[Sammy Sofa]

I think speed impacts the pitchers plenty. Lord knows they take enough of the stuff.

[nilodnayr]

I know people like to shoot stats out, but you have to be able to understand that there is a lot that goes into the game of baseball besides stats. I know that they can tell a lot, but baseball is a mental game

 

Who was it that led the league in mental RBIs last year?

 

Wait, stats go into the game? I thought they measured outcomes of the game. Now I'm all confused.

 

But I guess if you've "seen plenty of times where the next batter hits a HR", then it must be true!

[bhogg]

what pitcher led the leauge in wild pitches with no one on base last year?

[AllStarMe]

I know people like to shoot stats out, but you have to be able to understand that there is a lot that goes into the game of baseball besides stats. I know that they can tell a lot, but baseball is a mental game

 

Who was it that led the league in mental RBIs last year?

 

In my mind, I drove in 192. Take that, Hack Wilson.

Since RBIs have been pretty much refuted as the measure of a good hitter, I suppose your mark was achieved largely due to the mental capacity of those around you.

[fromthestretch]

I know people like to shoot stats out, but you have to be able to understand that there is a lot that goes into the game of baseball besides stats. I know that they can tell a lot, but baseball is a mental game

 

Who was it that led the league in mental RBIs last year?

 

In my mind, I drove in 192. Take that, Hack Wilson.

Since RBIs have been pretty much refuted as the measure of a good hitter, I suppose your mark was achieved largely due to the mental capacity of those around you.

 

All my friends have high mental OBPs.

 

Seriously though, I do agree that RBI and runs are poor measures of how good a hitter is.

[Tracer Bullet]

what pitcher led the leauge in wild pitches with no one on base last year?

=D>

[illiniguy]

I know people like to shoot stats out, but you have to be able to understand that there is a lot that goes into the game of baseball besides stats. I know that they can tell a lot, but baseball is a mental game

 

Who was it that led the league in mental RBIs last year?

 

In my mind, I drove in 192. Take that, Hack Wilson.

Since RBIs have been pretty much refuted as the measure of a good hitter, I suppose your mark was achieved largely due to the mental capacity of those around you.

 

All my friends have high mental OBPs.

 

Seriously though, I do agree that RBI and runs are poor measures of how good a hitter is.

I thought that runs would still be a good indicator of a hitters talent, being as he has to get on base quite a bit to score a ton of runs. I understand that it is still a team dependant stat, but thought it still to be a better indicator of value to the team than an RBI.

[Tracer Bullet]

I know people like to shoot stats out, but you have to be able to understand that there is a lot that goes into the game of baseball besides stats. I know that they can tell a lot, but baseball is a mental game

 

Who was it that led the league in mental RBIs last year?

 

In my mind, I drove in 192. Take that, Hack Wilson.

Since RBIs have been pretty much refuted as the measure of a good hitter, I suppose your mark was achieved largely due to the mental capacity of those around you.

 

All my friends have high mental OBPs.

 

Seriously though, I do agree that RBI and runs are poor measures of how good a hitter is.

I thought that runs would still be a good indicator of a hitters talent, being as he has to get on base quite a bit to score a ton of runs. I understand that it is still a team dependant stat, but thought it still to be a better indicator of value to the team than an RBI.

 

But if runs scored is a good measure of a hitter's talent b/c it means he had to be on base frequently, can't we just cut out the middle man and use OBP?

[illiniguy]

I know people like to shoot stats out, but you have to be able to understand that there is a lot that goes into the game of baseball besides stats. I know that they can tell a lot, but baseball is a mental game

 

Who was it that led the league in mental RBIs last year?

 

In my mind, I drove in 192. Take that, Hack Wilson.

Since RBIs have been pretty much refuted as the measure of a good hitter, I suppose your mark was achieved largely due to the mental capacity of those around you.

 

All my friends have high mental OBPs.

 

Seriously though, I do agree that RBI and runs are poor measures of how good a hitter is.

I thought that runs would still be a good indicator of a hitters talent, being as he has to get on base quite a bit to score a ton of runs. I understand that it is still a team dependant stat, but thought it still to be a better indicator of value to the team than an RBI.

 

But if runs is a good measure of a hitter's talent b/c it means he had to be on base frequently, can't we just cut out the middle man and use OBP?

Yeah I get that. I ust guess I always still valued runs more than RBIs. Probably foolish of me.

[Tracer Bullet]

I know people like to shoot stats out, but you have to be able to understand that there is a lot that goes into the game of baseball besides stats. I know that they can tell a lot, but baseball is a mental game

 

Who was it that led the league in mental RBIs last year?

 

In my mind, I drove in 192. Take that, Hack Wilson.

Since RBIs have been pretty much refuted as the measure of a good hitter, I suppose your mark was achieved largely due to the mental capacity of those around you.

 

All my friends have high mental OBPs.

 

Seriously though, I do agree that RBI and runs are poor measures of how good a hitter is.

I thought that runs would still be a good indicator of a hitters talent, being as he has to get on base quite a bit to score a ton of runs. I understand that it is still a team dependant stat, but thought it still to be a better indicator of value to the team than an RBI.

 

But if runs is a good measure of a hitter's talent b/c it means he had to be on base frequently, can't we just cut out the middle man and use OBP?

Yeah I get that. I ust guess I always still valued runs more than RBIs. Probably foolish of me.

 

Might be more valuable than RBI. I guess I largely ignore both for evaluation purposes, so I don't much care which is better.