NL Central - bad for a reason

[TruffleShuffle]

Reds hire Dusty Baker as manager

 

Cardinals fire Walt Jocketty

 

Brewers bring back Ned Yost

 

Astros hire Ed Wade as General Manager

 

 

The Pirates are the only team that did something positive - fire Littlefield and Creech - but they're so far in the toilet that it doesn't matter.

[CubmanPi]

The Pirates are the only team that did something positive - fire Littlefield and Creech - but they're so far in the toilet that it doesn't matter.

You're only looking at this young offseason. Pirates already traded for Izturis and Morris to be two of their highest paid players.

[TruffleShuffle]

The Pirates are the only team that did something positive - fire Littlefield and Creech - but they're so far in the toilet that it doesn't matter.

You're only looking at this young offseason. Pirates already traded for Izturis and Morris to be two of their highest paid players.

 

well yeah but i counted those as part of the littlefield era

[CardsFanInChiTown]

I loved Walt but I'm ok with him leaving. The current MLB atmosphere doesn't play to his strengths, which is trading, and exposes his weakness, which is player development.

[Guest]

I loved Walt but I'm ok with him leaving. The current MLB atmosphere doesn't play to his strengths, which is trading, and exposes his weakness, which is player development.

 

yet, the single biggest reason for his success was an amazing player development story.

[sethuel1]

I loved Walt but I'm ok with him leaving. The current MLB atmosphere doesn't play to his strengths, which is trading, and exposes his weakness, which is player development.

 

yet, the single biggest reason for his success was an amazing player development story.

Bo Hart?

[Keener98]

Reds hire Dusty Baker as manager

 

Cardinals fire Walt Jocketty

 

Brewers bring back Ned Yost

 

Astros hire Ed Wade as General Manager

 

 

The Pirates are the only team that did something positive - fire Littlefield and Creech - but they're so far in the toilet that it doesn't matter.

 

You forgot Cubs GM is Jim Hendry on your list.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

I loved Walt but I'm ok with him leaving. The current MLB atmosphere doesn't play to his strengths, which is trading, and exposes his weakness, which is player development.

 

yet, the single biggest reason for his success was an amazing player development story.

 

 

AP is huge no doubt but I argue acquiring players like Edmonds, Rolen, McGuire, Kile, Williams, Walker and Renteria for next to nothing were the biggest reason for his success. You can argue that was the greatest GM run for acquiring players in the history of baseball. It's amazing how great the Cards were considering how little their farm system produced.

[Guest]

I loved Walt but I'm ok with him leaving. The current MLB atmosphere doesn't play to his strengths, which is trading, and exposes his weakness, which is player development.

 

yet, the single biggest reason for his success was an amazing player development story.

 

 

AP is huge no doubt but I argue acquiring players like Edmonds, Rolen, McGuire, Kile, Williams, Walker and Renteria for next to nothing were the biggest reason for his success. You can argue that was the greatest GM run for acquiring players in the history of baseball. It's amazing how great the Cards were considering how little their farm system produced.

 

but producing one great player is better than producing numerous average ones. McGwire didn't have much success did he? I would add Carpenter to your list as he and Pujols were the biggest reasons for the Cardinals success. I won't try to downplay getting Rolen and Edmonds though as they were the difference between 90 wins and 105 no doubt. Although Rolen was kind of a gimme, Edmonds was a brilliant pickup.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

I loved Walt but I'm ok with him leaving. The current MLB atmosphere doesn't play to his strengths, which is trading, and exposes his weakness, which is player development.

 

yet, the single biggest reason for his success was an amazing player development story.

 

 

AP is huge no doubt but I argue acquiring players like Edmonds, Rolen, McGuire, Kile, Williams, Walker and Renteria for next to nothing were the biggest reason for his success. You can argue that was the greatest GM run for acquiring players in the history of baseball. It's amazing how great the Cards were considering how little their farm system produced.

 

but producing one great player is better than producing numerous average ones. McGwire didn't have much success did he? I would add Carpenter to your list as he and Pujols were the biggest reasons for the Cardinals success. I won't try to downplay getting Rolen and Edmonds though as they were the difference between 90 wins and 105 no doubt. Although Rolen was kind of a gimme, Edmonds was a brilliant pickup.

 

 

I agree with your 1 great player vs many avg players comment.

 

McGwire was amazing for the Cards and I didn't add Carp because Walt didn't trade for him. I don't mean to downplay AP because obviously he's huge but I've always felt the Cards kind of lucked in to him, which admittedly isn't entirely fair but I think there's some truth to it. My overall point is Walt's chief strength as a GM was dealing for players which is much harder to do in today's baseball environment.

 

No doubt about it - I have mixed feelings about him leaving.

[Guest]

I'm not really disagreeing with you so much as discussing for fun. Player development involves a lot of luck and a lot of patience as well as scouting.

[biittner77]

I loved Walt but I'm ok with him leaving. The current MLB atmosphere doesn't play to his strengths, which is trading, and exposes his weakness, which is player development.

 

How much did the Mulder trade undermine that notion?

[CardsFanInChiTown]

I loved Walt but I'm ok with him leaving. The current MLB atmosphere doesn't play to his strengths, which is trading, and exposes his weakness, which is player development.

 

How much did the Mulder trade undermine that notion?

 

 

Not much IMO, he has many more hits then misses.

[Jake]

The Pirates are the only team that did something positive - fire Littlefield and Creech - but they're so far in the toilet that it doesn't matter.

You're only looking at this young offseason. Pirates already traded for Izturis and Morris to be two of their highest paid players.

Izturis won't be back - the new management team probably won't pick up his option.

 

Morris will be hopefully be auctioned off on eBay.

[Vanilla Ice]

but producing one great player is better than producing numerous average ones. McGwire didn't have much success did he? I would add Carpenter to your list as he and Pujols were the biggest reasons for the Cardinals success. I won't try to downplay getting Rolen and Edmonds though as they were the difference between 90 wins and 105 no doubt. Although Rolen was kind of a gimme, Edmonds was a brilliant pickup.

 

I might be wrong, but I thought McGwire played for the A's first.

[nilodnayr]

but producing one great player is better than producing numerous average ones. McGwire didn't have much success did he? I would add Carpenter to your list as he and Pujols were the biggest reasons for the Cardinals success. I won't try to downplay getting Rolen and Edmonds though as they were the difference between 90 wins and 105 no doubt. Although Rolen was kind of a gimme, Edmonds was a brilliant pickup.

 

I might be wrong, but I thought McGwire played for the A's first.

 

Stitch was referring to players acquired via trade. And yes, MacGwire was amazing with the cards

 

1997 253/411/684 (year he was traded)

1998 299/470/752 (led league in OBP, SLG, and RC)

1999 278/424/697 (2nd in league in OPS, 3rd in RC)

 

2000 and 2001 were half years but he still put up

305/483/746 in 2000. Even in a horrible 2001 he had an OPS+ of 105 and put up 187/316/492

[haltz]

I would add Carpenter to your list as he and Pujols were the biggest reasons for the Cardinals success. I won't try to downplay getting Rolen and Edmonds though as they were the difference between 90 wins and 105 no doubt. Although Rolen was kind of a gimme, Edmonds was a brilliant pickup.

This isn't really true. Edmonds had one of the better CF peaks of all time, and that was his career year posting a 170 OPS+. Rolen had a 157 OPS+ and was +24 in UZR at 3B. Pujols moved to 1B that year and posted a 172 OPS+.

 

Carpenter was good, but not like he would be in 2005 and 2006. That was the year he came out of nowhere and he only threw 180 innings.