Z's Explanation

[badger1679666666]

Bad Month? Care to change that?

No. He could have a bad year and you still shouldn't write him off.

 

No one is writing him off. The fans didn't boo him when he blew threw the stop sign. The fans didn't boo when he walked the first hitter on 4 pitches. The fans didn't boo that inning. They booed when he continued to walk hitters, including one guy he had down 0-2, and then gave up run scoring hits to a .200 hitting #8 hitter and then the pitcher.

 

Cub fans watched Juan Pierre go a whole season in 2006 hardly ever drawing a walk, and knowing you can throw him the meatiest fastball ever and he probably wouldn't hit it past the 2nd baseman, but Carlos walks him.

 

This team is better than they have been playing. Fans are excited right now sitting in first place with less than a month to play, and emotions are at an all time high. They expect a little bit more from their staff ace and there really is nothing wrong with showing some negative emotion for the collective crap he has strung together.

 

Interesting how Cubs fans never booed pierre off the field the way they did Carlos yesterday. Makes me wonder if they really aren't all that knowledgeable.

[badger1679666666]

So, wait...

 

Now NSBB doesn't like Zambrano because of a bad month and a dumb comment?

 

What?

 

Some of you have the emotional level consistency of an elevator.

 

I know playoff chases are kind of novel to Cubs fans, but this isn't a big deal and certainly not worth villifying a fantastic player over.

 

Yea I know its just all us ignorant Cub fans. If Carpenter had pitched like this down the stretch immediatly after becoming the highest paid pitcher in baseball on an average basis, and then made an ignorant comment about the fans, the greatest fans in baseball would just keep loving away, and not boo or say a word. Yea thats it.....

 

I'd bet my bank account Cards fans wouldn't boo Carpenter after 5 bad starts.

 

It's not 5 bad starts. He's been bad for 4 months. How much is in your account?

 

Yea those starts in June and July were awful. good one.

Edited September 4, 2007 by badger

[BigbadB]

By the way you going to the Bears game Sunday?

 

I wish I was and I'm glad I'm not. It might be 120 degrees on the field on Sunday. San Diego is in the heart of a major meltdown temperature wise.

 

Tickets were hard to come by and they want way too much.

 

I will be at my regular watering hole in Bears gear, which is very much a Charger bar. But, I'm a regular there and a lot of other Bears fans will be there. Oh, and it's air conditioned. :D

[Keener98]

Jesus Christ, I wasn't indicting every Cubs fan everywhere; just the ones in this thread who are unnecessarily villifying Zambrano.

 

If Carpenter was in the same situation, I'm sure there would be some Cardinals fans doing the same thing, and I would say the same thing I said here.

 

So we are villifying him by wanting him to stop sucking and start pitching like the ace he is? Ya sounds like we are real irrational.

[BigbadB]

Interesting how Cubs fans never booed pierre off the field the way they did Carlos yesterday. Makes me wonder if they really aren't all that knowledgeable.

 

You just can't hear my boos all the way from San Diego. I booed the trade and I booed his lousy performance all year long. A prototypical lead off hitter was not what this team needed last year.

[badger1679666666]

Jesus Christ, I wasn't indicting every Cubs fan everywhere; just the ones in this thread who are unnecessarily villifying Zambrano.

 

If Carpenter was in the same situation, I'm sure there would be some Cardinals fans doing the same thing, and I would say the same thing I said here.

 

So we are villifying him by wanting him to stop sucking and start pitching like the ace he is? Ya sounds like we are real irrational.

 

you've been villifying him from your very first post.

 

And no one said anything about the fact that wanting him to stop sucking is a bad thing. But that yesterday was beyond that.

[Keener98]

So, wait...

 

Now NSBB doesn't like Zambrano because of a bad month and a dumb comment?

What?

 

Some of you have the emotional level consistency of an elevator.

 

I know playoff chases are kind of novel to Cubs fans, but this isn't a big deal and certainly not worth villifying a fantastic player over.

 

Bad Month? Care to change that?

 

Jesus had had FOUR YEARS of being good to great. he's had a month and half of being bad lately.

 

Leave it to a Cards fan to actually bring perspective in.

 

April=1 May=2 August =3 and 1 start in Sept. You have a new way of doing math?

 

lol. you're something else.

 

ERA + of

 

110 (16 starts)

136 (32 starts)

165 (31 starts)

131 (33 starts)

136 (33 starts)

111 (28 starts)

 

He's built up EQUITY with me, and I believe he should have with everyone. Even with a bad year.

 

What have you done for me lately, in the heat of a pennant race? Zambrano played a dumb game yesterday all around, and that is why he was boo'd also. If Z is too immature to understand this, then I dont know what to tell him, but I hope he uses this the same way he used the Barret thing.

[Keener98]

Jesus Christ, I wasn't indicting every Cubs fan everywhere; just the ones in this thread who are unnecessarily villifying Zambrano.

 

If Carpenter was in the same situation, I'm sure there would be some Cardinals fans doing the same thing, and I would say the same thing I said here.

 

So we are villifying him by wanting him to stop sucking and start pitching like the ace he is? Ya sounds like we are real irrational.

 

you've been villifying him from your very first post.

 

And no one said anything about the fact that wanting him to stop sucking is a bad thing. But that yesterday was beyond that.

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree because you arent going to change my mind that there was nothing wrong with what took place yesterday from the fans.

[CUBZ99]

Jesus Christ, I wasn't indicting every Cubs fan everywhere; just the ones in this thread who are unnecessarily villifying Zambrano.

 

If Carpenter was in the same situation, I'm sure there would be some Cardinals fans doing the same thing, and I would say the same thing I said here.

 

I'm almost positive that Carpenter would have the sense not to make similar comments that Zambrano made.

 

I think the biggest problems from all of this, is that Zambrano has put himself into a position with the fans where he has zero margin for error.

[badger1679666666]

Jesus Christ, I wasn't indicting every Cubs fan everywhere; just the ones in this thread who are unnecessarily villifying Zambrano.

 

If Carpenter was in the same situation, I'm sure there would be some Cardinals fans doing the same thing, and I would say the same thing I said here.

 

So we are villifying him by wanting him to stop sucking and start pitching like the ace he is? Ya sounds like we are real irrational.

 

you've been villifying him from your very first post.

 

And no one said anything about the fact that wanting him to stop sucking is a bad thing. But that yesterday was beyond that.

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree because you arent going to change my mind that there was nothing wrong with what took place yesterday from the fans.

 

I was just about to say the same thing, because I think yesterday was bushleague and classless.

[Keener98]

Jesus Christ, I wasn't indicting every Cubs fan everywhere; just the ones in this thread who are unnecessarily villifying Zambrano.

 

If Carpenter was in the same situation, I'm sure there would be some Cardinals fans doing the same thing, and I would say the same thing I said here.

 

I'm almost positive that Carpenter would have the sense not to make similar comments that Zambrano made.

 

I think the biggest problems from all of this, is that Zambrano has put himself into a position with the fans where he has zero margin for error.

 

Yup once again Z holds his own cards. Go out pitch like we all know he can, and all will be forgotten, but if he keeps talking and pitching like crap, its only going to go downhill fast from here.

[CUBZ99]

Jesus Christ, I wasn't indicting every Cubs fan everywhere; just the ones in this thread who are unnecessarily villifying Zambrano.

 

If Carpenter was in the same situation, I'm sure there would be some Cardinals fans doing the same thing, and I would say the same thing I said here.

 

So we are villifying him by wanting him to stop sucking and start pitching like the ace he is? Ya sounds like we are real irrational.

 

you've been villifying him from your very first post.

 

And no one said anything about the fact that wanting him to stop sucking is a bad thing. But that yesterday was beyond that.

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree because you arent going to change my mind that there was nothing wrong with what took place yesterday from the fans.

 

Villifying? Have we really reached a point that every negative comment is going to be construed as villifying?

[Keener98]

Jesus Christ, I wasn't indicting every Cubs fan everywhere; just the ones in this thread who are unnecessarily villifying Zambrano.

 

If Carpenter was in the same situation, I'm sure there would be some Cardinals fans doing the same thing, and I would say the same thing I said here.

 

So we are villifying him by wanting him to stop sucking and start pitching like the ace he is? Ya sounds like we are real irrational.

 

you've been villifying him from your very first post.

 

And no one said anything about the fact that wanting him to stop sucking is a bad thing. But that yesterday was beyond that.

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree because you arent going to change my mind that there was nothing wrong with what took place yesterday from the fans.

 

Villifying? Have we really reached a point that every negative comment is going to be construed as villifying?

 

 

Yea I know Im guessing you meant to quote Badger right? I really dont get the whole villafying crap but oh well.

[C.C.]

Jesus Christ, I wasn't indicting every Cubs fan everywhere; just the ones in this thread who are unnecessarily villifying Zambrano.

 

If Carpenter was in the same situation, I'm sure there would be some Cardinals fans doing the same thing, and I would say the same thing I said here.

 

So we are villifying him by wanting him to stop sucking and start pitching like the ace he is? Ya sounds like we are real irrational.

 

you've been villifying him from your very first post.

 

And no one said anything about the fact that wanting him to stop sucking is a bad thing. But that yesterday was beyond that.

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree because you arent going to change my mind that there was nothing wrong with what took place yesterday from the fans.

 

I was just about to say the same thing, because I think yesterday was bushleague and classless.

 

So was his performence...

[badger1679666666]

Jesus Christ, I wasn't indicting every Cubs fan everywhere; just the ones in this thread who are unnecessarily villifying Zambrano.

 

If Carpenter was in the same situation, I'm sure there would be some Cardinals fans doing the same thing, and I would say the same thing I said here.

 

So we are villifying him by wanting him to stop sucking and start pitching like the ace he is? Ya sounds like we are real irrational.

 

you've been villifying him from your very first post.

 

And no one said anything about the fact that wanting him to stop sucking is a bad thing. But that yesterday was beyond that.

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree because you arent going to change my mind that there was nothing wrong with what took place yesterday from the fans.

 

I was just about to say the same thing, because I think yesterday was bushleague and classless.

 

So was his performence...

 

hahahahaha.

 

that's a good one.

 

yea z's all out hustle and zeal and passion for which he plays the game is the complete opposite of bushleague and classless. But I know you need to feel justification for the way he was treated by supposed fans yesterday.

[Mephistopheles]

This is, once again, wrong. You are saying he's prone to bottoming out more than most pitchers, but you fail to realize over the duration of his first four seasons no starting pitcher was as consistently good as he was.

 

Maybe for full seasons but his monthly stats are just all over the place, a lot like Zito. Zambrano generally has 2-3 completely dominant best pitcher in baseball type months a year mixed with some pretty average to downright bad months.

 

ERA by month for the past 3 years...

 

4.31

2.40

5.79

2.11

1.74

4.19

 

5.35

1.90

1.96

4.15

3.63

4.03

 

5.77

4.72

2.53

1.38

7.06

 

Now compare to someone more consistent like Oswalt

 

3.25

3.20

1.40

2.03

5.81

2.93

 

2.76

3.49

3.72

3.09

3.38

1.85

 

3.43

3.29

3.55

4.41

1.14

 

I can do that too.

 

Jake Peavy

 

 I Split         G  GS GF  W  L  S CG SHO   IP    ERA   H   R   ER HR  BB IBB  SO HBP
+-+------------+---+--+--+--+--+--+--+---+-----+------+---+---+---+--+---+---+---+---+
  April/Mar.     5  5  0  1  3  0  0   0  31.1   5.17  33  18  18  4   7   4  24   1 
  May            6  6  0  3  2  0  0   0  38     3.32  31  14  14  6   8   1  48   1 
  June           5  5  0  0  3  0  1   0  30.2   5.28  32  18  18  4   8   1  37   1 
  July           4  4  0  1  2  0  0   0  24     7.12  29  19  19  3  13   1  27   1 
  August         6  6  0  2  3  0  0   0  37.2   2.87  30  13  12  3  14   3  38   0 
  Sept./Oct.     6  6  0  4  1  0  1   0  40.2   2.43  32  11  11  3  12   1  41   2 

[Mephistopheles]

Keener, get a grip. You may be obsessed with what have you done for me lately,, but doing that off of one month is absurd. you know that.

[Keener98]

This is, once again, wrong. You are saying he's prone to bottoming out more than most pitchers, but you fail to realize over the duration of his first four seasons no starting pitcher was as consistently good as he was.

 

Maybe for full seasons but his monthly stats are just all over the place, a lot like Zito. Zambrano generally has 2-3 completely dominant best pitcher in baseball type months a year mixed with some pretty average to downright bad months.

 

ERA by month for the past 3 years...

 

4.31

2.40

5.79

2.11

1.74

4.19

 

5.35

1.90

1.96

4.15

3.63

4.03

 

5.77

4.72

2.53

1.38

7.06

 

Now compare to someone more consistent like Oswalt

 

3.25

3.20

1.40

2.03

5.81

2.93

 

2.76

3.49

3.72

3.09

3.38

1.85

 

3.43

3.29

3.55

4.41

1.14

 

I can do that too.

 

Jake Peavy

 

 I Split         G  GS GF  W  L  S CG SHO   IP    ERA   H   R   ER HR  BB IBB  SO HBP
+-+------------+---+--+--+--+--+--+--+---+-----+------+---+---+---+--+---+---+---+---+
  April/Mar.     5  5  0  1  3  0  0   0  31.1   5.17  33  18  18  4   7   4  24   1 
  May            6  6  0  3  2  0  0   0  38     3.32  31  14  14  6   8   1  48   1 
  June           5  5  0  0  3  0  1   0  30.2   5.28  32  18  18  4   8   1  37   1 
  July           4  4  0  1  2  0  0   0  24     7.12  29  19  19  3  13   1  27   1 
  August         6  6  0  2  3  0  0   0  37.2   2.87  30  13  12  3  14   3  38   0 
  Sept./Oct.     6  6  0  4  1  0  1   0  40.2   2.43  32  11  11  3  12   1  41   2 

 

You used this years stats whereas he used 3 year stats to show his point. I think your point would be made if Peavys 3 year stats were like those that you posted but if not, what really is your point of posting just 1 years worth of stats?

[kente777]

The fans have every right to boo. They paid the ticket. They have no right to throw stuff on the field. They have no right to punch out the fan in front of them. But they have every right to boo. Done are the days of coming to the old ball park and smiling when your team gets slaughtered 12-1. What the fans did yesterday is nothing compared to what other cities do. The fans are sick and tired of 99 years of mediocrity.

 

I'm not a boo'er.....never have been. But I would say absolutely nothing to the fan next to me for booing. Carlos, suck it up and be a man. Stop pitching horrible and making stupid blunders and the fans won't boo you.

[C.C.]

Jesus Christ, I wasn't indicting every Cubs fan everywhere; just the ones in this thread who are unnecessarily villifying Zambrano.

 

If Carpenter was in the same situation, I'm sure there would be some Cardinals fans doing the same thing, and I would say the same thing I said here.

 

So we are villifying him by wanting him to stop sucking and start pitching like the ace he is? Ya sounds like we are real irrational.

 

you've been villifying him from your very first post.

 

And no one said anything about the fact that wanting him to stop sucking is a bad thing. But that yesterday was beyond that.

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree because you arent going to change my mind that there was nothing wrong with what took place yesterday from the fans.

 

I was just about to say the same thing, because I think yesterday was bushleague and classless.

 

So was his performence...

 

hahahahaha.

 

that's a good one.

 

yea z's all out hustle and zeal and passion for which he plays the game is the complete opposite of bushleague and classless. But I know you need to feel justification for the way he was treated by supposed fans yesterday.

 

I don't care about hustle, Zeal, and Passion. I care about results, and the man isn't getting it done when we need him most. It's really that simple.

[Keener98]

Keener, get a grip. You may be obsessed with what have you done for me lately,, but doing that off of one month is absurd. you know that.

 

Its his entire season as a whole, and everything that has encompassed it. He has brought alot of this on himself and you know that. Declaring you are going to win a Cy Young award and then crapping the bed the 1st 2 months of the season. Then getting into a fight with his own teammate. Then using his contract as an excuse as to why hes pitching bad, and then sign the contract and continue to pitch bad.

[badger1679666666]

Jesus Christ, I wasn't indicting every Cubs fan everywhere; just the ones in this thread who are unnecessarily villifying Zambrano.

 

If Carpenter was in the same situation, I'm sure there would be some Cardinals fans doing the same thing, and I would say the same thing I said here.

 

So we are villifying him by wanting him to stop sucking and start pitching like the ace he is? Ya sounds like we are real irrational.

 

you've been villifying him from your very first post.

 

And no one said anything about the fact that wanting him to stop sucking is a bad thing. But that yesterday was beyond that.

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree because you arent going to change my mind that there was nothing wrong with what took place yesterday from the fans.

 

I was just about to say the same thing, because I think yesterday was bushleague and classless.

 

So was his performence...

 

hahahahaha.

 

that's a good one.

 

yea z's all out hustle and zeal and passion for which he plays the game is the complete opposite of bushleague and classless. But I know you need to feel justification for the way he was treated by supposed fans yesterday.

 

I don't care about hustle, Zeal, and Passion. I care about results, and the man isn't getting it done when we need him most. It's really that simple.

 

As someone who has played competitive sports through college, there are a few things players directly control. You can work hard, you can want it badly, you can practice and dedicate yourself to a trade, but when you hit the field, you can't control what opponents do. I expect the best effort and committment to winning from my players. Seomteimes you just don't have good stuff and there isn't anything you can do it about. It is these situations in which I feel players need support not villification.l

[badger1679666666]

The fans have every right to boo. They paid the ticket. They have no right to throw stuff on the field. They have no right to punch out the fan in front of them. But they have every right to boo. Done are the days of coming to the old ball park and smiling when your team gets slaughtered 12-1. What the fans did yesterday is nothing compared to what other cities do. The fans are sick and tired of 99 years of mediocrity.

 

I'm not a boo'er.....never have been. But I would say absolutely nothing to the fan next to me for booing. Carlos, suck it up and be a man. Stop pitching horrible and making stupid blunders and the fans won't boo you.

 

No one is arguing over whether they have the right to boo. Clearly they do.

[badger1679666666]

You used this years stats whereas he used 3 year stats to show his point. I think your point would be made if Peavys 3 year stats were like those that you posted but if not, what really is your point of posting just 1 years worth of stats?

 

Holy jesus the irony is frightening.

[Mephistopheles]

Keener, get a grip. You may be obsessed with what have you done for me lately,, but doing that off of one month is absurd. you know that.

 

Its his entire season as a whole, and everything that has encompassed it. He has brought alot of this on himself and you know that. Declaring you are going to win a Cy Young award and then crapping the bed the 1st 2 months of the season. Then getting into a fight with his own teammate. Then using his contract as an excuse as to why hes pitching bad, and then sign the contract and continue to pitch bad.

 

So what, he's not allowed to have a down season. Are you turning into Dan Duquette on us? (I doubt you even get that reference)

 

Pitchers have down years. Pitchers have down months. Zambrano is human.