Slugging or On Base Fueled OPS?

[Derwood]

Are you going insane? I'm only discussing your argument. You are saying Sosa rocked at driving guys in. I am pointing out Olerud did just as good of a job.

 

In other words, I pointed out the flaw in your argument statistically rendering it obsolete. You've done nothing. Your only argument against mine is skirting the issue and being a Cubs homer.

 

sorry for posting all those confusing numbers

[Flames24Rulz]

Are you going insane? I'm only discussing your argument. You are saying Sosa rocked at driving guys in. I am pointing out Olerud did just as good of a job.

 

In other words, I pointed out the flaw in your argument statistically rendering it obsolete. You've done nothing. Your only argument against mine is skirting the issue and being a Cubs homer.

 

He's being a homer? I guarantee you that almost every non-Cubs fan would also say that Sosa had a better season than Olerud did in 98.

Edited August 4, 2007 by Flames24Rulz

[Derwood]

for the record, are you saying that Olerud would have driven in 158 runs on the 98 Cubs?

[Geech]

for the record, are you saying that Olerud would have driven in 158 runs on the 98 Cubs?

 

Man, your arguments are awful, Derwood.

[Derwood]

for the record, are you saying that Olerud would have driven in 158 runs on the 98 Cubs?

 

Man, your arguments are awful, Derwood.

 

i want an answer. Olerud, according to him, was better and drove in runs at the same % as Sosa. so, i repeat my question: would Olerud have driven in 158 runs on the 1998 Cubs?

[Mephistopheles]

Are you going insane? I'm only discussing your argument. You are saying Sosa rocked at driving guys in. I am pointing out Olerud did just as good of a job.

 

In other words, I pointed out the flaw in your argument statistically rendering it obsolete. You've done nothing. Your only argument against mine is skirting the issue and being a Cubs homer.

 

sorry for posting all those confusing numbers

 

actually my argument is obp duh. not rbi.

 

He's being a homer? I guarantee you that almost every non-Cubs fan would also say that Sosa had a better season than Olerud did in 98.

 

And every non-Cubs fan who is sabermetrically-inclined would say Olerud.

 

for the record, are you saying that Olerud would have driven in 158 runs on the 98 Cubs?

 

No. I am not saying anything about RBIs except its a waste of your time to even think about.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

for the record, are you saying that Olerud would have driven in 158 runs on the 98 Cubs?

 

Man, your arguments are awful, Derwood.

 

i want an answer. Olerud, according to him, was better and drove in runs at the same % as Sosa. so, i repeat my question: would Olerud have driven in 158 runs on the 1998 Cubs?

 

No. But between the runs he did drive in and those of his teammates who got extra at-bats because he didn't make outs and the runs generated from him getting on base extra times, the sum would have been better than 158 runs.

[Geech]

i want an answer. Olerud, according to him, was better and drove in runs at the same % as Sosa. so, i repeat my question: would Olerud have driven in 158 runs on the 1998 Cubs?

 

Why do you want an answer? It's a stupid, pointless question. You're not arguing but obfuscating at this point.

[Derwood]

i want an answer. Olerud, according to him, was better and drove in runs at the same % as Sosa. so, i repeat my question: would Olerud have driven in 158 runs on the 1998 Cubs?

 

Why do you want an answer? It's a stupid, pointless question. You're not arguing but obfuscating at this point.

 

no i'm not. olerud's contributions to the scoreboard were less than Sosa's.

[Mizzou]

Derwood, it doesn't matter who drove more runs in. Clearly OBP wins games. Getting on base is enough, it doesn't matter if you score when you get on base.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Derwood, it doesn't matter who drove more runs in. Clearly OBP wins games. Getting on base is enough, it doesn't matter if you score when you get on base.

 

Outs are bad.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

i want an answer. Olerud, according to him, was better and drove in runs at the same % as Sosa. so, i repeat my question: would Olerud have driven in 158 runs on the 1998 Cubs?

 

Why do you want an answer? It's a stupid, pointless question. You're not arguing but obfuscating at this point.

 

no i'm not. olerud's contributions to the scoreboard were less than Sosa's.

 

The percentages posted on the previous page show that was entirely a matter of opportunities created thanks to his teammates.

[Geech]

Outs are bad.

 

Don't bother. We should know better by now.

[Derwood]

i want an answer. Olerud, according to him, was better and drove in runs at the same % as Sosa. so, i repeat my question: would Olerud have driven in 158 runs on the 1998 Cubs?

 

Why do you want an answer? It's a stupid, pointless question. You're not arguing but obfuscating at this point.

 

no i'm not. olerud's contributions to the scoreboard were less than Sosa's.

 

The percentages posted on the previous page show that was entirely a matter of opportunities created thanks to his teammates.

 

right, which makes me ask the question again: given the same opportunities as Sosa, would Olerud have driven in as many runs. why won't people answer?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

i want an answer. Olerud, according to him, was better and drove in runs at the same % as Sosa. so, i repeat my question: would Olerud have driven in 158 runs on the 1998 Cubs?

 

Why do you want an answer? It's a stupid, pointless question. You're not arguing but obfuscating at this point.

 

no i'm not. olerud's contributions to the scoreboard were less than Sosa's.

 

The percentages posted on the previous page show that was entirely a matter of opportunities created thanks to his teammates.

 

right, which makes me ask the question again: given the same opportunities as Sosa, would Olerud have driven in as many runs. why won't people answer?

 

I did.

 

No.

 

But his presence in the lineup would have caused more runs to be scored through other factors.

[Derwood]

i want an answer. Olerud, according to him, was better and drove in runs at the same % as Sosa. so, i repeat my question: would Olerud have driven in 158 runs on the 1998 Cubs?

 

Why do you want an answer? It's a stupid, pointless question. You're not arguing but obfuscating at this point.

 

no i'm not. olerud's contributions to the scoreboard were less than Sosa's.

 

The percentages posted on the previous page show that was entirely a matter of opportunities created thanks to his teammates.

 

right, which makes me ask the question again: given the same opportunities as Sosa, would Olerud have driven in as many runs. why won't people answer?

 

I did.

 

No.

 

But his presence in the lineup would have caused more runs to be scored through other factors.

 

theoretically. we'll never know, however, as Olerud's numbers would not have been the same.

[Mizzou]

Sosa had 211 guys on 2nd or 3rd when he came up, he knocked in 56.

Olerud had 202 guys on 2nd or 3rd when he came up, he knocked in 53.

 

26.5% Sosa

26.2% Olerud

 

I am right....again.

That's bogus. You're counting the times when Sosa was walked against him. He can't control if he gets pitched around. I don't know where you're getting your numbers otherwise I'd look it up myself, but... take away the times when he was walked, and then what percent of runners did Sammy drive in vs. Olerud?

[Mephistopheles]

i want an answer. Olerud, according to him, was better and drove in runs at the same % as Sosa. so, i repeat my question: would Olerud have driven in 158 runs on the 1998 Cubs?

 

Why do you want an answer? It's a stupid, pointless question. You're not arguing but obfuscating at this point.

 

no i'm not. olerud's contributions to the scoreboard were less than Sosa's.

 

The percentages posted on the previous page show that was entirely a matter of opportunities created thanks to his teammates.

 

right, which makes me ask the question again: given the same opportunities as Sosa, would Olerud have driven in as many runs. why won't people answer?

 

no but if Olerud was on the Cubs the OTHER players would have driven in MORE runs than the difference between Sosa and Olerud.

[Mephistopheles]

Sosa had 211 guys on 2nd or 3rd when he came up, he knocked in 56.

Olerud had 202 guys on 2nd or 3rd when he came up, he knocked in 53.

 

26.5% Sosa

26.2% Olerud

 

I am right....again.

That's bogus. You're counting the times when Sosa was walked against him. He can't control if he gets pitched around. I don't know where you're getting your numbers otherwise I'd look it up myself, but... take away the times when he was walked, and then what percent of runners did Sammy drive in vs. Olerud?

 

Stop the BS. You DO realize that Olerud walked a lot more often than Sosa, right?

[Derwood]

i want an answer. Olerud, according to him, was better and drove in runs at the same % as Sosa. so, i repeat my question: would Olerud have driven in 158 runs on the 1998 Cubs?

 

Why do you want an answer? It's a stupid, pointless question. You're not arguing but obfuscating at this point.

 

no i'm not. olerud's contributions to the scoreboard were less than Sosa's.

 

The percentages posted on the previous page show that was entirely a matter of opportunities created thanks to his teammates.

 

right, which makes me ask the question again: given the same opportunities as Sosa, would Olerud have driven in as many runs. why won't people answer?

 

no but if Olerud was on the Cubs the OTHER players would have driven in MORE runs than the difference between Sosa and Olerud.

 

really. your proof is what?

[Mizzou]

Sosa had 211 guys on 2nd or 3rd when he came up, he knocked in 56.

Olerud had 202 guys on 2nd or 3rd when he came up, he knocked in 53.

 

26.5% Sosa

26.2% Olerud

 

I am right....again.

That's bogus. You're counting the times when Sosa was walked against him. He can't control if he gets pitched around. I don't know where you're getting your numbers otherwise I'd look it up myself, but... take away the times when he was walked, and then what percent of runners did Sammy drive in vs. Olerud?

 

Stop the BS. You DO realize that Olerud walked a lot more often than Sosa, right?

You DO realize that with runners on 2nd and/or 3rd and first base open, Sammy was walked basically every time, right? Did it tell you that in your stat book? Olerud, probably not.

 

What are the numbers?

[Mephistopheles]

i want an answer. Olerud, according to him, was better and drove in runs at the same % as Sosa. so, i repeat my question: would Olerud have driven in 158 runs on the 1998 Cubs?

 

Why do you want an answer? It's a stupid, pointless question. You're not arguing but obfuscating at this point.

 

no i'm not. olerud's contributions to the scoreboard were less than Sosa's.

 

The percentages posted on the previous page show that was entirely a matter of opportunities created thanks to his teammates.

 

right, which makes me ask the question again: given the same opportunities as Sosa, would Olerud have driven in as many runs. why won't people answer?

 

no but if Olerud was on the Cubs the OTHER players would have driven in MORE runs than the difference between Sosa and Olerud.

 

really. your proof is what?

 

his eqa and stuff his higher. thats about all we need to know. the team would score more runs and eventually trickle down to the other player's RBI column. there are other ways to illustrate it.

 

this isnt a hard concept to grasp

[Derwood]

this goes on the assumption that the other players would maintain their exact same numbers (w/RISP, for example) with the added number of opportunities afforded by Olerud's higher OBP. You can't assume that. Perhaps Mark Grace goes 0-fer in his additional opportunities. we'll never know.

 

your argument is equivalent to someone saying "had grossman not fumbled the ball in the 3rd quarter, the Bears would have won." untrue. when you change one factor in a game/team, you have to assume that everything else changes

[Mephistopheles]

we can certainly assume that they will hit their overall line in those situations. my argument has nothing to do with grossman and the fumble. my argument is that "the bears would have won more games with manning not grossman at qb". your response would be "we cant assume the bears defense would be as sharp in the more possessions manning would have created for the other team so we dont know if the bears would win more with manning."

[Mizzou]

So are you just going to ignore my last post because it would hurt your argument?