Cedeno Up and Moore Down (confirmed by cubs.com)

[Rob]

Why the hell did we call up a slumping shortstop who makes a lot of errors just when Theriot starts doing well?

 

Anyone know the number for ESPN?

 

Cedeno hasn't been hitting for as much power recently, I'll grant... but he's still batting .310 in his last 10 games. And why on earth are you using errors to judge a player's defense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought.

 

Why on earth are you using batting average to judge a player's offense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought. :wink:

 

His defense doesn't worry me one bit.

Great range don't mean crap when he drops the ball every time he gets to it, and considering the hitter paradise in Iowa's AAA league, I don't agree with this call up one bit. Need I remind you we have a right fielder who lives life day to day.

 

Take a look at his probabilistic model of range page from last year. Even in a year where he made a uncharacteristically high number of errors, he did enough on balls that nobody else would get to to make him right about the definition of average defensively. Theriot isn't even that good.

 

And Sean, I just didn't feel like crunching the numbers myself. I know it's lazy, but so am I.

[Skyballer]

Why the hell did we call up a slumping shortstop who makes a lot of errors just when Theriot starts doing well?

 

Anyone know the number for ESPN?

 

Cedeno hasn't been hitting for as much power recently, I'll grant... but he's still batting .310 in his last 10 games. And why on earth are you using errors to judge a player's defense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought.

 

Why on earth are you using batting average to judge a player's offense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought. :wink:

 

His defense doesn't worry me one bit.

 

Great range don't mean crap when he drops the ball every time he gets to it, and considering the hitter paradise in Iowa's AAA league, I don't agree with this call up one bit. Need I remind you we have a right fielder who lives life day to day.

 

Take a look at his probabilistic model of range page from last year. Even in a year where he made a uncharacteristically high number of errors, he did enough on balls that nobody else would get to to make him right about the definition of average defensively. Theriot isn't even that good.

 

And Sean, I just didn't feel like crunching the numbers myself. I know it's lazy, but so am I.

Seems to me like Cedeno is slightly above average ranging to his right yet terrible at ranging to his left(which makes sense cause that's what I remeber), while Theriot is much better at ranging to his left and the difference sems to make Theriot a better SS. Besides how many of Cedeno's errors are 2-base errors, compared to Theriot's minimal errors.

[Handlebar McSkullet]

They should start him all the time and say it's your job. You cant lose it.

 

please see 2006 chicago cubs season

[E.J.]

They should start him all the time and say it's your job. You cant lose it.

 

please see 2006 chicago cubs season

 

He's only 24. I'm not that high on him, but he can probably put up better numbers, and definitely play better defense than Theriot.

[Skyballer]

Cedeno career fielding overall: .962 fielding and range of 4.13

 

Theriot:.984/4.07

 

I'll take Theriot.

 

Especially considering he also play Third, Left, Center, and Right.

 

Cedeno SB 10/19

Theriot SB 29/33

Edited July 24, 2007 by Skyballer

[Rob]

Why the hell did we call up a slumping shortstop who makes a lot of errors just when Theriot starts doing well?

 

Anyone know the number for ESPN?

 

Cedeno hasn't been hitting for as much power recently, I'll grant... but he's still batting .310 in his last 10 games. And why on earth are you using errors to judge a player's defense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought.

 

Why on earth are you using batting average to judge a player's offense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought. :wink:

 

His defense doesn't worry me one bit.

 

Great range don't mean crap when he drops the ball every time he gets to it, and considering the hitter paradise in Iowa's AAA league, I don't agree with this call up one bit. Need I remind you we have a right fielder who lives life day to day.

 

Take a look at his probabilistic model of range page from last year. Even in a year where he made a uncharacteristically high number of errors, he did enough on balls that nobody else would get to to make him right about the definition of average defensively. Theriot isn't even that good.

 

And Sean, I just didn't feel like crunching the numbers myself. I know it's lazy, but so am I.

Seems to me like Cedeno is slightly above average ranging to his right yet terrible at ranging to his left(which makes sense cause that's what I remeber), while Theriot is much better at ranging to his left and the difference sems to make Theriot a better SS. Besides how many of Cedeno's errors are 2-base errors, compared to Theriot's minimal errors.

 

Theriot played two games for a total of 17 innings at SS last year. If that's not small sample size, I don't know what is. Besides, anybody who's watching the Cubs can tell that Theriot doesn't have hardly anything in the way of range.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Please start hot so we don't have Pie part deux, Ronny.

[Skyballer]

Why the hell did we call up a slumping shortstop who makes a lot of errors just when Theriot starts doing well?

 

Anyone know the number for ESPN?

 

Cedeno hasn't been hitting for as much power recently, I'll grant... but he's still batting .310 in his last 10 games. And why on earth are you using errors to judge a player's defense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought.

 

Why on earth are you using batting average to judge a player's offense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought. :wink:

 

His defense doesn't worry me one bit.

 

Great range don't mean crap when he drops the ball every time he gets to it, and considering the hitter paradise in Iowa's AAA league, I don't agree with this call up one bit. Need I remind you we have a right fielder who lives life day to day.

 

Take a look at his probabilistic model of range page from last year. Even in a year where he made a uncharacteristically high number of errors, he did enough on balls that nobody else would get to to make him right about the definition of average defensively. Theriot isn't even that good.

 

And Sean, I just didn't feel like crunching the numbers myself. I know it's lazy, but so am I.

Seems to me like Cedeno is slightly above average ranging to his right yet terrible at ranging to his left(which makes sense cause that's what I remeber), while Theriot is much better at ranging to his left and the difference sems to make Theriot a better SS. Besides how many of Cedeno's errors are 2-base errors, compared to Theriot's minimal errors.

 

Theriot played two games for a total of 17 innings at SS last year. If that's not small sample size, I don't know what is. Besides, anybody who's watching the Cubs can tell that Theriot doesn't have hardly anything in the way of arm.

Fixed, he can still get to the ball and besides a little work on his arm should get him a much stronger arm and make him a very solid fielder. Cedeno has better range and arm but makes way too many errors.

[abuck1220]

Cedeno career fielding overall: .962 fielding and range of 4.13

 

Theriot:.984/4.07

 

I'll take Theriot.

 

Especially considering he also play Third, Left, Center, and Right.

 

yeah, theriot's ability to play centerfield (??) has been paying off big time lately.

[seanimal]

Cedeno career fielding overall: .962 fielding and range of 4.13

 

Theriot:.984/4.07

 

I'll take Theriot

 

Fielding percentage is not good way to go about judging a player's defense, for obvious reasons.

 

You can take Theriot all you want, but it appears this is not an either-or scenario. Both will be on the team, and if Cedeno doesn't go mentally numb when he gets up to the majors like he has in the past, it'll be quite obvious who is the better choice at the position.

[E.J.]

Why the hell did we call up a slumping shortstop who makes a lot of errors just when Theriot starts doing well?

 

Anyone know the number for ESPN?

 

Cedeno hasn't been hitting for as much power recently, I'll grant... but he's still batting .310 in his last 10 games. And why on earth are you using errors to judge a player's defense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought.

 

Why on earth are you using batting average to judge a player's offense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought. :wink:

 

His defense doesn't worry me one bit.

 

Great range don't mean crap when he drops the ball every time he gets to it, and considering the hitter paradise in Iowa's AAA league, I don't agree with this call up one bit. Need I remind you we have a right fielder who lives life day to day.

 

Take a look at his probabilistic model of range page from last year. Even in a year where he made a uncharacteristically high number of errors, he did enough on balls that nobody else would get to to make him right about the definition of average defensively. Theriot isn't even that good.

 

And Sean, I just didn't feel like crunching the numbers myself. I know it's lazy, but so am I.

Seems to me like Cedeno is slightly above average ranging to his right yet terrible at ranging to his left(which makes sense cause that's what I remeber), while Theriot is much better at ranging to his left and the difference sems to make Theriot a better SS. Besides how many of Cedeno's errors are 2-base errors, compared to Theriot's minimal errors.

 

Theriot played two games for a total of 17 innings at SS last year. If that's not small sample size, I don't know what is. Besides, anybody who's watching the Cubs can tell that Theriot doesn't have hardly anything in the way of arm.

Fixed, he can still get to the ball and besides a little work on his arm should get him a much stronger arm and make him a very solid fielder. Cedeno has better range and arm but makes way too many errors.

 

He can do all the work he wants on his arm. He's still going to have a well below average arm for a SS. Theriot is a 2b who's playing SS because we didn't have a very good option. Cedeno is on fire at AAA. Might as well give him a chance, considering he's an actual SS.

[seanimal]

Fixed, he can still get to the ball and besides a little work on his arm should get him a much stronger arm and make him a very solid fielder. Cedeno has better range and arm but makes way too many errors.

 

Not fixed. You've already admitted that he cannot get to the ball as well as Cedeno, and there's no way a player who is 27 years old improves his ability to throw a baseball hard. And no, Cedeno doesn't make way to many errors, not that it even matters.

[mdwilla]

If Ronny is the best chance we have at upgrading are production at short were in trouble. I am a fan of sticking with Theriot.

[IWU_CUBS_FAN]

i just hope ronny doenst hit under .200 this time around....but yea the riot is def the startin shortstop for now....

[Skyballer]

Why the hell did we call up a slumping shortstop who makes a lot of errors just when Theriot starts doing well?

 

Anyone know the number for ESPN?

 

Cedeno hasn't been hitting for as much power recently, I'll grant... but he's still batting .310 in his last 10 games. And why on earth are you using errors to judge a player's defense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought.

 

Why on earth are you using batting average to judge a player's offense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought. :wink:

 

His defense doesn't worry me one bit.

 

Great range don't mean crap when he drops the ball every time he gets to it, and considering the hitter paradise in Iowa's AAA league, I don't agree with this call up one bit. Need I remind you we have a right fielder who lives life day to day.

 

Take a look at his probabilistic model of range page from last year. Even in a year where he made a uncharacteristically high number of errors, he did enough on balls that nobody else would get to to make him right about the definition of average defensively. Theriot isn't even that good.

 

And Sean, I just didn't feel like crunching the numbers myself. I know it's lazy, but so am I.

Seems to me like Cedeno is slightly above average ranging to his right yet terrible at ranging to his left(which makes sense cause that's what I remeber), while Theriot is much better at ranging to his left and the difference sems to make Theriot a better SS. Besides how many of Cedeno's errors are 2-base errors, compared to Theriot's minimal errors.

 

Theriot played two games for a total of 17 innings at SS last year. If that's not small sample size, I don't know what is. Besides, anybody who's watching the Cubs can tell that Theriot doesn't have hardly anything in the way of arm.

Fixed, he can still get to the ball and besides a little work on his arm should get him a much stronger arm and make him a very solid fielder. Cedeno has better range and arm but makes way too many errors.

 

He can do all the work he wants on his arm. He's still going to have a well below average arm for a SS. Theriot is a 2b who's playing SS because we didn't have a very good option. Cedeno is on fire at AAA. Might as well give him a chance, considering he's an actual SS.

So is Theriot, he was just used at second because he plays there and because Izzy wan't going anywhere. Theriot is a natural SS. Please know what you're talking about.

[E.J.]

If Ronny is the best chance we have at upgrading are production at short were in trouble. I am a fan of sticking with Theriot.

 

Yes, we are in trouble. We've been getting below-average production from SS, CF, RF, and C all year. Hendry needs to make a major upgrade to at least 1 of them.

 

I do believe Ronny is an upgrade over Theriot though.

[seanimal]

So is Theriot, he was just used at second because he plays there and because Izzy wan't going anywhere. Theriot is a natural SS. Please know what you're talking about.

 

Before insulting people you should probably heed your own advice first.

 

Theriot is not a natural SS.

[JimSorgi]

Finally. Cedeno really deserved a shot.

[Skyballer]

So is Theriot, he was just used at second because he plays there and because Izzy wan't going anywhere. Theriot is a natural SS. Please know what you're talking about.

 

Before insulting people you should probably heed your own advice first.

 

Theriot is not a natural SS.

A natural shortstop, Theriot has also played backup third base, second base, and right field for the Cubs.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Theriot

[rickrolled]

Why the hell did we call up a slumping shortstop who makes a lot of errors just when Theriot starts doing well?

 

Anyone know the number for ESPN?

 

Cedeno hasn't been hitting for as much power recently, I'll grant... but he's still batting .310 in his last 10 games. And why on earth are you using errors to judge a player's defense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought.

 

Why on earth are you using batting average to judge a player's offense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought. :wink:

 

His defense doesn't worry me one bit.

 

Great range don't mean crap when he drops the ball every time he gets to it, and considering the hitter paradise in Iowa's AAA league, I don't agree with this call up one bit. Need I remind you we have a right fielder who lives life day to day.

 

Take a look at his probabilistic model of range page from last year. Even in a year where he made a uncharacteristically high number of errors, he did enough on balls that nobody else would get to to make him right about the definition of average defensively. Theriot isn't even that good.

 

And Sean, I just didn't feel like crunching the numbers myself. I know it's lazy, but so am I.

Seems to me like Cedeno is slightly above average ranging to his right yet terrible at ranging to his left(which makes sense cause that's what I remeber), while Theriot is much better at ranging to his left and the difference sems to make Theriot a better SS. Besides how many of Cedeno's errors are 2-base errors, compared to Theriot's minimal errors.

 

Theriot played two games for a total of 17 innings at SS last year. If that's not small sample size, I don't know what is. Besides, anybody who's watching the Cubs can tell that Theriot doesn't have hardly anything in the way of arm.

Fixed, he can still get to the ball and besides a little work on his arm should get him a much stronger arm and make him a very solid fielder. Cedeno has better range and arm but makes way too many errors.

 

He can do all the work he wants on his arm. He's still going to have a well below average arm for a SS. Theriot is a 2b who's playing SS because we didn't have a very good option. Cedeno is on fire at AAA. Might as well give him a chance, considering he's an actual SS.

So is Theriot, he was just used at second because he plays there and because Izzy wan't going anywhere. Theriot is a natural SS. Please know what you're talking about.

 

uhh, Theriot is not a natural SS

[Skyballer]

Why the hell did we call up a slumping shortstop who makes a lot of errors just when Theriot starts doing well?

 

Anyone know the number for ESPN?

 

Cedeno hasn't been hitting for as much power recently, I'll grant... but he's still batting .310 in his last 10 games. And why on earth are you using errors to judge a player's defense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought.

 

Why on earth are you using batting average to judge a player's offense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought. :wink:

 

His defense doesn't worry me one bit.

 

Great range don't mean crap when he drops the ball every time he gets to it, and considering the hitter paradise in Iowa's AAA league, I don't agree with this call up one bit. Need I remind you we have a right fielder who lives life day to day.

 

Take a look at his probabilistic model of range page from last year. Even in a year where he made a uncharacteristically high number of errors, he did enough on balls that nobody else would get to to make him right about the definition of average defensively. Theriot isn't even that good.

 

And Sean, I just didn't feel like crunching the numbers myself. I know it's lazy, but so am I.

Seems to me like Cedeno is slightly above average ranging to his right yet terrible at ranging to his left(which makes sense cause that's what I remeber), while Theriot is much better at ranging to his left and the difference sems to make Theriot a better SS. Besides how many of Cedeno's errors are 2-base errors, compared to Theriot's minimal errors.

 

Theriot played two games for a total of 17 innings at SS last year. If that's not small sample size, I don't know what is. Besides, anybody who's watching the Cubs can tell that Theriot doesn't have hardly anything in the way of arm.

Fixed, he can still get to the ball and besides a little work on his arm should get him a much stronger arm and make him a very solid fielder. Cedeno has better range and arm but makes way too many errors.

 

He can do all the work he wants on his arm. He's still going to have a well below average arm for a SS. Theriot is a 2b who's playing SS because we didn't have a very good option. Cedeno is on fire at AAA. Might as well give him a chance, considering he's an actual SS.

So is Theriot, he was just used at second because he plays there and because Izzy wan't going anywhere. Theriot is a natural SS. Please know what you're talking about.

 

uhh, Theriot is not a natural SS

See post above yours.

[imb]

Hahaha, his wiki page? That's a new one.

[Rob]

So is Theriot, he was just used at second because he plays there and because Izzy wan't going anywhere. Theriot is a natural SS. Please know what you're talking about.

 

Before insulting people you should probably heed your own advice first.

 

Theriot is not a natural SS.

A natural shortstop, Theriot has also played backup third base, second base, and right field for the Cubs.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Theriot

 

This is what it says at your link.

 

A natural at second base, Theriot has also played backup third base, short, and right field for the Cubs.

[rickrolled]

ahaha

[E.J.]

Why the hell did we call up a slumping shortstop who makes a lot of errors just when Theriot starts doing well?

 

Anyone know the number for ESPN?

 

Cedeno hasn't been hitting for as much power recently, I'll grant... but he's still batting .310 in his last 10 games. And why on earth are you using errors to judge a player's defense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought.

 

Why on earth are you using batting average to judge a player's offense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought. :wink:

 

His defense doesn't worry me one bit.

 

Great range don't mean crap when he drops the ball every time he gets to it, and considering the hitter paradise in Iowa's AAA league, I don't agree with this call up one bit. Need I remind you we have a right fielder who lives life day to day.

 

Take a look at his probabilistic model of range page from last year. Even in a year where he made a uncharacteristically high number of errors, he did enough on balls that nobody else would get to to make him right about the definition of average defensively. Theriot isn't even that good.

 

And Sean, I just didn't feel like crunching the numbers myself. I know it's lazy, but so am I.

Seems to me like Cedeno is slightly above average ranging to his right yet terrible at ranging to his left(which makes sense cause that's what I remeber), while Theriot is much better at ranging to his left and the difference sems to make Theriot a better SS. Besides how many of Cedeno's errors are 2-base errors, compared to Theriot's minimal errors.

 

Theriot played two games for a total of 17 innings at SS last year. If that's not small sample size, I don't know what is. Besides, anybody who's watching the Cubs can tell that Theriot doesn't have hardly anything in the way of arm.

Fixed, he can still get to the ball and besides a little work on his arm should get him a much stronger arm and make him a very solid fielder. Cedeno has better range and arm but makes way too many errors.

 

He can do all the work he wants on his arm. He's still going to have a well below average arm for a SS. Theriot is a 2b who's playing SS because we didn't have a very good option. Cedeno is on fire at AAA. Might as well give him a chance, considering he's an actual SS.

So is Theriot, he was just used at second because he plays there and because Izzy wan't going anywhere. Theriot is a natural SS. Please know what you're talking about.

 

Theriot has played more games at 2b than SS throughout his minor and major league career. How do you explain this if he's a "natural SS"?