Shortstop II + Fixing the Cubs + The Future

[baseball7897]

eyre for dunn. straight up. no joke.

:roll: That's gotta be a joke

 

How about Jones for Bonderman?

[Mephistopheles]

Other options? A lot of people have been harping for Adam Dunn, and rightfully so. If Dunn were acquired and in our lineup tomorrow he'd be netting us just 12.5 runs because he is the same hitter as Glaus and would be expected to be about 8 runs worse on defense for the rest of the season.

 

How can you say Dunn is 8 runs worse defensivley then Glaus when you have Glaus playing out of position (SS or RF) with the Cubs?

 

Makes no sense.

 

Because RF isn't a very hard position to play. The way these weights are decided use real data of players making the transition too and from positions, so it accounts for it.

How can you account for a guy switching positions that he has never played before? Where does this comes from?

 

looking how over and under average guys were before and after at different positions. Hypothetically if a guy is +4 at one position, and -5 the second position. Then a second guy is -5 at the first and -12 at the other, then we can estimate that the difference in average between the two is about 8 or so.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Since Tex returned from the DL, Sosa is playing approximately 2 out of 3 games. That's going to decrease as the Rangers season swirls further down the crapper. Sosa knows it.

 

Furthermore, I still think Sosa would relish another chance at a penant race, especially in Chicago. Now, I'm sure with all your sources, you've spoken to him and can set me straight, but I think there's just as much reason to believe he would accept a part-time role down the stretch as not.

[reds44]

Other options? A lot of people have been harping for Adam Dunn, and rightfully so. If Dunn were acquired and in our lineup tomorrow he'd be netting us just 12.5 runs because he is the same hitter as Glaus and would be expected to be about 8 runs worse on defense for the rest of the season.

 

How can you say Dunn is 8 runs worse defensivley then Glaus when you have Glaus playing out of position (SS or RF) with the Cubs?

 

Makes no sense.

 

Because RF isn't a very hard position to play. The way these weights are decided use real data of players making the transition too and from positions, so it accounts for it.

How can you account for a guy switching positions that he has never played before? Where does this comes from?

 

looking how over and under average guys were before and after at different positions. Hypothetically if a guy is +4 at one position, and -5 the second position. Then a second guy is -5 at the first and -12 at the other, then we can estimate that the difference in average between the two is about 8 or so.

So you can look at what Joe Blow did at a position and decide what Troy Glaus will do there?

 

Doesn't work that way.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Well-thought out post.

 

You're better with the numbers than I am, Meph. What could be the gain if we acquired a RH bat----say Sammy Sosa, and platooned him with Floyd in RF. How does that help us?

Sosa is an outs machine.

 

An out machine who hasn't made an out in over 40% of his PAs against lefties.

You think Sosa will come back to the Cubs and platoon?

 

Not gonna happen.

 

He's essentially being platooned in Texas. He's still getting AB's because Wash likes him, but the GM is shopping him heavily. Sosa wouldn't have much choice in his role if he's traded. He no longer has that clout. Sure, I'd hope there would be discussions with him about his role before following through, but you make it sound like he has a NTC or something. He doesn't. Sosa also wants to play next year and making an ass of himself at this stage wouldn't further that cause.

AB's vs. LHP: 74

AB vs. RHP: 224

 

I guess that's estentially being platooned.

 

If you don't think players can controll where they want to go without having a NTC, then you are nuts. Texas won't trade him somewhere he won't want to go.

 

Link?

Link to what?

 

Anything that substantiates Texas won't send him somewhere he doesn't want to go.

[reds44]

Since Tex returned from the DL, Sosa is playing approximately 2 out of 3 games. That's going to decrease as the Rangers season swirls further down the crapper. Sosa knows it.

 

Furthermore, I still think Sosa would relish another chance at a penant race, especially in Chicago. Now, I'm sure with all your sources, you've spoken to him and can set me straight, but I think there's just as much reason to believe he would accept a part-time role down the stretch as not.

Then you are living in a fantasy world.

 

A guy with 600 homers is not going to go somewhere and platoon. It's got nothing to do with sources, it has to do with me using my brain.

Edited July 22, 2007 by reds44

[Flames24Rulz]

Well-thought out post.

 

You're better with the numbers than I am, Meph. What could be the gain if we acquired a RH bat----say Sammy Sosa, and platooned him with Floyd in RF. How does that help us?

Sosa is an outs machine.

 

vs LH pitching: .333/434/580/1.014

 

Not a lot of outs there. But, don't let facts get in the way of a good point, ok?

Sosa's not going to come here and platoon. There is no chance of that happening. Same thing goes for the gold glove 1st baseman from Colorado coming here to play RF.

 

And before you say Sosa doesn't have a NTC, it doesn't matter. If he doesn't want to go somewhere, he'll make sure he doesn't.

 

You don't know that. Sosa has been a model citizen in Texas and isn't playing every day there. If he stays, he's eventually going to yield playing time to Jason Botts. The GM has already said as much.

 

He doesn't have an NTC and he'll go where the Rangers ship him or quit. Since he wants to play next season, I doubt he takes the latter.

 

You have to let go of the idea of bringing Sosa back Vance. There's absolutely no way Hendry would bring him back after when happened a couple years ago.

 

He'd be the perfect platoon partner for Floyd, but you're right. There's no chance in hell that Hendry is going to bring him back.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

 

You have to let go of the idea of bringing Sosa back Vance. There's absolutely no way Hendry would bring him back after when happened a couple years ago.

 

That may or may not be true. I'm inclined to believe that angle moreso than Sosa wouldn't want to come back or that the Rangers wouldn't trade him here. In fact, I can state with almost certainty that if Jim offered a half-way decent prospect, JD would help Sosa pack.

 

How Hendry feels, I don't know. How much of wanting him gone was Jim and how much was Dusty? Has Sosa really changed? Admittedly, there's a lot of unknown there.

[NCCubFan]

Since Tex returned from the DL, Sosa is playing approximately 2 out of 3 games. That's going to decrease as the Rangers season swirls further down the crapper. Sosa knows it.

 

Furthermore, I still think Sosa would relish another chance at a penant race, especially in Chicago. Now, I'm sure with all your sources, you've spoken to him and can set me straight, but I think there's just as much reason to believe he would accept a part-time role down the stretch as not.

Then you are living in a fantasy world.

 

A guy with 600 homers is not going to go somewhere and platoon. It's got nothing to do with sources, it has to do with me using my brain.

He'll be no more than a platoon player in Texas anyway. Don't you think he'd rather be a part-time player for a contender than for a bad team? I do.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Since Tex returned from the DL, Sosa is playing approximately 2 out of 3 games. That's going to decrease as the Rangers season swirls further down the crapper. Sosa knows it.

 

Furthermore, I still think Sosa would relish another chance at a penant race, especially in Chicago. Now, I'm sure with all your sources, you've spoken to him and can set me straight, but I think there's just as much reason to believe he would accept a part-time role down the stretch as not.

Then you are living in a fantasy world.

 

A guy with 600 homers is not going to go somewhere and platoon. It's got nothing to do with sources, it has to do with me using my brain.

 

Unfortunately, the evidence of that is not very convincing.

[SaorsaDaonnan]

The basic reasoning seems sound.

 

Of course, most critics of the proposal will argue that the defensive costs of playing Glaus in right or, especially, at short would significantly exceed the totals you estimate. It would be to your argumentative advantage to provide a fuller description of your analysis of Glaus's defensive (dis)value.

[reds44]

Since Tex returned from the DL, Sosa is playing approximately 2 out of 3 games. That's going to decrease as the Rangers season swirls further down the crapper. Sosa knows it.

 

Furthermore, I still think Sosa would relish another chance at a penant race, especially in Chicago. Now, I'm sure with all your sources, you've spoken to him and can set me straight, but I think there's just as much reason to believe he would accept a part-time role down the stretch as not.

Then you are living in a fantasy world.

 

A guy with 600 homers is not going to go somewhere and platoon. It's got nothing to do with sources, it has to do with me using my brain.

He'll be no more than a platoon player in Texas anyway. Don't you think he'd rather be a part-time player for a contender than for a bad team? I do.

Not back in the town where he was made famous and where he left on awful terms and was made to be a scapegoat by the organization.

 

I don't think he would want to come back if he was playing everyday. I also don't think Hendry wants him back.

Edited July 22, 2007 by reds44

[Mephistopheles]

Other options? A lot of people have been harping for Adam Dunn, and rightfully so. If Dunn were acquired and in our lineup tomorrow he'd be netting us just 12.5 runs because he is the same hitter as Glaus and would be expected to be about 8 runs worse on defense for the rest of the season.

 

How can you say Dunn is 8 runs worse defensivley then Glaus when you have Glaus playing out of position (SS or RF) with the Cubs?

 

Makes no sense.

 

Because RF isn't a very hard position to play. The way these weights are decided use real data of players making the transition too and from positions, so it accounts for it.

How can you account for a guy switching positions that he has never played before? Where does this comes from?

 

looking how over and under average guys were before and after at different positions. Hypothetically if a guy is +4 at one position, and -5 the second position. Then a second guy is -5 at the first and -12 at the other, then we can estimate that the difference in average between the two is about 8 or so.

So you can look at what Joe Blow did at a position and decide what Troy Glaus will do there?

 

Doesn't work that way.

 

No it's not exact but since it uses everything it's a gives you a very good idea of what the person can do at the position. It's pretty practical and better than randomly saying X runs. It's the best thing we've got. If you've got a better solution tell me it.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

eyre for dunn. straight up. no joke.

:roll: That's gotta be a joke

 

How about Jones for Bonderman?

 

I would think you'd prefer Jeff Weaver to Bonderman.

[Flames24Rulz]

 

You have to let go of the idea of bringing Sosa back Vance. There's absolutely no way Hendry would bring him back after when happened a couple years ago.

 

That may or may not be true. I'm inclined to believe that angle moreso than Sosa wouldn't want to come back or that the Rangers wouldn't trade him here. In fact, I can state with almost certainty that if Jim offered a half-way decent prospect, JD would help Sosa pack.

 

How Hendry feels, I don't know. How much of wanting him gone was Jim and how much was Dusty? Has Sosa really changed? Admittedly, there's a lot of unknown there.

 

It was pretty clear that Baker and Sosa didn't have a good relationship at the end of the 04 season. But Hendry was the one who did everything he could to force Sosa out of town. He went to great lengths to releasing that tape of Sosa leaving the clubhouse. I think Sosa could eventually be on the Cubs once again, but it's not going to be this year. Not as long as Hendry is running the show.

[NCCubFan]

Since Tex returned from the DL, Sosa is playing approximately 2 out of 3 games. That's going to decrease as the Rangers season swirls further down the crapper. Sosa knows it.

 

Furthermore, I still think Sosa would relish another chance at a penant race, especially in Chicago. Now, I'm sure with all your sources, you've spoken to him and can set me straight, but I think there's just as much reason to believe he would accept a part-time role down the stretch as not.

Then you are living in a fantasy world.

 

A guy with 600 homers is not going to go somewhere and platoon. It's got nothing to do with sources, it has to do with me using my brain.

He'll be no more than a platoon player in Texas anyway. Don't you think he'd rather be a part-time player for a contender than for a bad team? I do.

Not back in the town where he was made famous and where he left on awful terms and was made to be a scapegoat by the organization.

 

I don't think he would want to come back if he was playing everyday.

Time has a tendancy to heal wounds. He'd only be commited to play for the Cubs the rest of this year. If the experience is unpleasant he can always sign elsewhere for next year.

[reds44]

Since Tex returned from the DL, Sosa is playing approximately 2 out of 3 games. That's going to decrease as the Rangers season swirls further down the crapper. Sosa knows it.

 

Furthermore, I still think Sosa would relish another chance at a penant race, especially in Chicago. Now, I'm sure with all your sources, you've spoken to him and can set me straight, but I think there's just as much reason to believe he would accept a part-time role down the stretch as not.

Then you are living in a fantasy world.

 

A guy with 600 homers is not going to go somewhere and platoon. It's got nothing to do with sources, it has to do with me using my brain.

He'll be no more than a platoon player in Texas anyway. Don't you think he'd rather be a part-time player for a contender than for a bad team? I do.

Not back in the town where he was made famous and where he left on awful terms and was made to be a scapegoat by the organization.

 

I don't think he would want to come back if he was playing everyday.

Time has a tendancy to heal wounds. He'd only be commited to play for the Cubs the rest of this year. If the experience is unpleasant he can always sign elsewhere for next year.

If Sosa comes back to the Cubs I will leave the board for ever.

 

And you can quote me.

 

It won't happen. Simple as that.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

 

You have to let go of the idea of bringing Sosa back Vance. There's absolutely no way Hendry would bring him back after when happened a couple years ago.

 

That may or may not be true. I'm inclined to believe that angle moreso than Sosa wouldn't want to come back or that the Rangers wouldn't trade him here. In fact, I can state with almost certainty that if Jim offered a half-way decent prospect, JD would help Sosa pack.

 

How Hendry feels, I don't know. How much of wanting him gone was Jim and how much was Dusty? Has Sosa really changed? Admittedly, there's a lot of unknown there.

 

It was pretty clear that Baker and Sosa didn't have a good relationship at the end of the 04 season. But Hendry was the one who did everything he could to force Sosa out of town. He went to great lengths to releasing that tape of Sosa leaving the clubhouse. I think Sosa could eventually be on the Cubs once again, but it's not going to be this year. Not as long as Hendry is running the show.

 

And Hendry did those things while Baker was still here. It's evident Hendry defers a lot to his manager; if not, Barrett likely is still our catcher.

 

I'm not saying it's likely, but we do have a marketing guy as team pres. Bring Sosa back for a penant chase would be a marketer's dream.

[Shavo]

We need Sosa more then ever guys!

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Since Tex returned from the DL, Sosa is playing approximately 2 out of 3 games. That's going to decrease as the Rangers season swirls further down the crapper. Sosa knows it.

 

Furthermore, I still think Sosa would relish another chance at a penant race, especially in Chicago. Now, I'm sure with all your sources, you've spoken to him and can set me straight, but I think there's just as much reason to believe he would accept a part-time role down the stretch as not.

Then you are living in a fantasy world.

 

A guy with 600 homers is not going to go somewhere and platoon. It's got nothing to do with sources, it has to do with me using my brain.

He'll be no more than a platoon player in Texas anyway. Don't you think he'd rather be a part-time player for a contender than for a bad team? I do.

Not back in the town where he was made famous and where he left on awful terms and was made to be a scapegoat by the organization.

 

I don't think he would want to come back if he was playing everyday.

Time has a tendancy to heal wounds. He'd only be commited to play for the Cubs the rest of this year. If the experience is unpleasant he can always sign elsewhere for next year.

If Sosa comes back to the Cubs I will leave the board for ever.

 

And you can quote me.

 

It won't happen. Simple as that.

 

Now I can add another reason to my desire to see Sammy return in addition to improving the team and the sentimentality of it.

 

It may not happen, but it would be because of Hendry not pulling the strings, not because of any control Sosa has over the process or lack of desire to trade him by the Rangers.

[reds44]

Since Tex returned from the DL, Sosa is playing approximately 2 out of 3 games. That's going to decrease as the Rangers season swirls further down the crapper. Sosa knows it.

 

Furthermore, I still think Sosa would relish another chance at a penant race, especially in Chicago. Now, I'm sure with all your sources, you've spoken to him and can set me straight, but I think there's just as much reason to believe he would accept a part-time role down the stretch as not.

Then you are living in a fantasy world.

 

A guy with 600 homers is not going to go somewhere and platoon. It's got nothing to do with sources, it has to do with me using my brain.

He'll be no more than a platoon player in Texas anyway. Don't you think he'd rather be a part-time player for a contender than for a bad team? I do.

Not back in the town where he was made famous and where he left on awful terms and was made to be a scapegoat by the organization.

 

I don't think he would want to come back if he was playing everyday.

Time has a tendancy to heal wounds. He'd only be commited to play for the Cubs the rest of this year. If the experience is unpleasant he can always sign elsewhere for next year.

If Sosa comes back to the Cubs I will leave the board for ever.

 

And you can quote me.

 

It won't happen. Simple as that.

 

Now I can add another reason to my desire to see Sammy return in addition to improving the team and the sentimentality of it.

 

It may not happen, but it would be because of Hendry not pulling the strings, not because of any control Sosa has over the process or lack of desire to trade him by the Rangers.

You're wrong is you think Sosa can't control where he goes, at least to some extent.

[NCCubFan]

Once again, folks, STOP SNIPING AT EACH OTHER. NOW!

[Mephistopheles]

You are wrong because you think Sosa can't control where he goes, at least to some extent.

 

I'm sure there's a sentence somewhere in there, but I can't find it.

 

There ya go. However, Sosa has no control. No NTC. The Rangers could trade him to the Devil Rays if they wanted to.

[reds44]

You're wrong is you think Sosa can't control where he goes, at least to some extent.

 

I'm sure there's a sentence somewhere in there, but I can't find it.

I love it. I come here and try to be an unbiased fan and post things related to the Cubs. I posted the Jacque trade that was done, and all it had to be was approved by the commish. Then I post the RUMOR, which I clearly marked as such, about Dunn going to the Brewers and that one turned out not to be true. I said it was a rumor.

 

Yet I continued to be ripped on for no reason by the so called best poster on the site.

[reds44]

You are wrong because you think Sosa can't control where he goes, at least to some extent.

 

I'm sure there's a sentence somewhere in there, but I can't find it.

 

There ya go. However, Sosa has no control. No NTC. The Rangers could trade him to the Devil Rays if they wanted to.

Have you ever seen somebody traded to a place where he truly did not want to play?