Patience is not the problem.....

[NomarSammy]

I keep hearing people saying that the Cubs need to be more patient at the plate and I think this is wrong. The Cubs need to be more SELECTIVE at the pitches they swing at. I see many hitters, take the first pitch no matter what, but then they get to a "hitters count" and they swing at whatever craps comes at them. The idea just seems so simple to me and I dont know why it is not stressed or talked about more. Since this whole patient approach has been brought up I have actually seen hitters take their hands off of the bat as a first pitch fastball right down the middle goes by. Yet, in the same AB they will swing at a 2-0 pitch on the outside corner. I am just stunned at what poor appraoches they seem to have when it comes to hitting.

 

And you know what else, enough with the FIre Hendry,, Fire Lou, this guy is the problem, that guy is the problem--you know what, it is all a bunch of BS--just quit being a bunch of babies and go and start getting a job done--ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

[Derwood]

I like when Aramis leaves the bat on his shoulder and/or Jacque decides he's going to swing no matter what

[Fred Hornkohl]

The CUBS, through 50 games, are seeing pitches at the rate of 3.74 per plate appearance, which is almost exactly league average. But consider this breakdown..........

 

P/PA              record

less than 3.7      9 - 9
3.7 to 4.0        10 - 7
more than 4.0      3 -12

 

Go figure. Or, as one vulture said to the other.... "Patience my ass !! I'm gonna kill something"

[jersey cubs fan]

Yes, the problem in general is they need to be more selective, and have a better approach at the plate. Just standing there and watching a first pitch strike wizz by isn't going to help anything. There has to be a threat of a swing on any pitch.

[Soriano12]

Isn't being more "selective" kind of the same thing as "patient"?

[windycityfan]

It's called strike zone judgment (or lack thereof). But it doesn't end there.

 

Anyhow, I agree wholeheartedly. Soriano especially would just watch by a perfect first pitch fastball and then swing at another two feet off the plate to get himself in the hole - every time out. Floyd did it too in a different fashion. Hitters count, swings at an obvious ball four and follows it by swinging and missing for a K.

 

Another issue particularly frustrating to me is ARam's approach to just to murder the ball on any count (I know there's bigger fish to fry on this team, but, does he realize the intent is to get on base with, let's say, nobody on and no outs?).

 

All in all, it's an acquired ability most of this lineup haven't and won't learn. It goes on and on and on. No wonder this team's offense can't ever muster any consistency or build rallies in any way shape or form. Let alone quite the frustrating experience to watch.

[tkenm356]

That's no coach's fault. If I'm not mistaken, Gerald Perry's whole approach to hitting was to choose a ball they want to see in their chosen hit zone and wait for it. The batters don't seem to be doing any of that, just swinging at whatever crap comes their way because they want to swing

[windycityfan]

Isn't being more "selective" kind of the same thing as "patient"?

 

Absolutely not. Selective means choosing the right pitch to hit regardless of the count, whereas patience means working the count - which in turn translates to two quick strikes and a third one in the dirt swung at.

[jersey cubs fan]

Isn't being more "selective" kind of the same thing as "patient"?

 

Absolutely not. Selective means choosing the right pitch to hit regardless of the count, whereas patience means working the count - which in turn translates to two quick strikes and a third one in the dirt swung at.

 

I wouldn't say absolutely not. They are very similar. You have to be patient in order to be selective. It's one thing if you just refuse to ever swing until you have 2 strikes, but I don't think that's what anybody really means when they talk about patience.

[Derwood]

in some cases, "waiting for your pitch" means swinging at a meatball on the first pitch.

[windycityfan]

You have to be patient in order to be selective.

 

I disagree. Good hitters should be able to launch first pitch fastballs right down the pipe over the bleachers.

 

If anything, I'm seeing Soriano's 'patience' of late hurting him more. He's getting first pitches right down the middle for strikes and everything else off. With these free swinging types, you ain't going to get a heck of a lot done when the scouting report tells you they will swing at them.

[windycityfan]

in some cases, "waiting for your pitch" means swinging at a meatball on the first pitch.

 

You said it best.

[Soul]

Isn't being more "selective" kind of the same thing as "patient"?

 

Absolutely not. Selective means choosing the right pitch to hit regardless of the count, whereas patience means working the count - which in turn translates to two quick strikes and a third one in the dirt swung at.

 

I wouldn't say absolutely not. They are very similar. You have to be patient in order to be selective. It's one thing if you just refuse to ever swing until you have 2 strikes, but I don't think that's what anybody really means when they talk about patience.

 

It's the same thing. Semantics at most.

[Abe Frohman]

Honestly, I have noticed the Cubs swinging the bats pretty well lately. It's just hard to overcome taking a lead and watching the bullpen not throw strikes and give it back to the opposition.

 

The problem is pitching.

[Abe Frohman]

You have to be patient in order to be selective.

 

I disagree. Good hitters should be able to launch first pitch fastballs right down the pipe over the bleachers.

 

Ted Williams doesn't. Good hitters can hit with two strikes. If you swing and the first pitch every time, even if it is a piped fastball, you are going to get yourself out more than you are going to hit it into the stands.

Edited May 30, 2007 by Abe Frohman

[Soul]

Honestly, I have noticed the Cubs swinging the bats pretty well lately. It's just hard to overcome taking a lead and watching the bullpen not throw strikes and give it back to the opposition.

 

The problem is pitching.

 

It's both, either/or depending on the night. Rarely do we play both sides of the ball well in the same game.

 

I suppose we should have all expected this. Adding a buttload of new players who haven't played together, or in some cases haven't even played NL baseball should have been a flag that we would have trouble being a cohesive unit.

[Soul]

You have to be patient in order to be selective.

 

I disagree. Good hitters should be able to launch first pitch fastballs right down the pipe over the bleachers.

 

Ted Williams doesn't.

 

Well, if you launch enough first pitch fastballs into the bleachers, then you won't see first pitch fastballs anymore.

 

And then? You guessed it. You'll have to be more selective/patient.

[jersey cubs fan]

You have to be patient in order to be selective.

 

I disagree. Good hitters should be able to launch first pitch fastballs right down the pipe over the bleachers.

 

That doesn't negate the need for patience. A selective hitter can swing on the first pitch if it's in his zone. But if he's impatient, he'll also swing at the face high fastball or slider low and away.

 

You are confusing patience with deciding before the pitch you are not going to swing. That's not patience. That's predetermined.

[jersey cubs fan]

Honestly, I have noticed the Cubs swinging the bats pretty well lately. It's just hard to overcome taking a lead and watching the bullpen not throw strikes and give it back to the opposition.

 

The problem is pitching.

 

Honestly, you haven't been watching the Cubs swinging the bats pretty well lately. Aside from one good inning in LA, this team hasn't done crap offensively since the White Sox series. They've put up a bunch of zeroes, and far too few crooked numbers over that time.

[Abe Frohman]

You have to be patient in order to be selective.

 

I disagree. Good hitters should be able to launch first pitch fastballs right down the pipe over the bleachers.

 

Ted Williams doesn't.

 

Well, if you launch enough first pitch fastballs into the bleachers, then you won't see first pitch fastballs anymore.

 

And then? You guessed it. You'll have to be more selective/patient.

 

In addition - the more pitches you make the pitcher throw, the better collective chance your team has to crush a mistake pitch, start a rally, etc. If you work the pitcher, he will make mistakes.

 

Seeing more pitches is good. Working the pitcher for a hitable ball is the key.

[Abe Frohman]

Honestly, I have noticed the Cubs swinging the bats pretty well lately. It's just hard to overcome taking a lead and watching the bullpen not throw strikes and give it back to the opposition.

 

The problem is pitching.

 

Honestly, you haven't been watching the Cubs swinging the bats pretty well lately. Aside from one good inning in LA, this team hasn't done crap offensively since the White Sox series. They've put up a bunch of zeroes, and far too few crooked numbers over that time.

 

I'll give you that, because they have put together some innings that shoulc have kept them in some games. They have not been consistant with the bats, but they have been good enough to pull some wins out that have been losses.

 

I agree, they are going to have to be more consistant with the bats, but the pitching has got to hold the opponants. The LA game the other night is exactly what I have been talking about.

 

Eyre letting Abercrombie steal 2nd and 3rd without a look turned into a quick run and a rally that killed them.

 

Plainly, the Cubs are playing bad baseball all around.

[jersey cubs fan]

Plainly, the Cubs are playing bad baseball all around.

 

As per usual.

[rawaction]

Isn't being more "selective" kind of the same thing as "patient"?

 

Absolutely not. Selective means choosing the right pitch to hit regardless of the count, whereas patience means working the count - which in turn translates to two quick strikes and a third one in the dirt swung at.

 

I wouldn't say absolutely not. They are very similar. You have to be patient in order to be selective. It's one thing if you just refuse to ever swing until you have 2 strikes, but I don't think that's what anybody really means when they talk about patience.

 

I think it's the other way around. If you are selective, then you automatically become patient. My favorite example is Sammy Sosa. He was the least patient hitter I had ever seen as a young player. He did not become an elite player until he realized, "hey, I can hit a thigh high, middle-in fast ball or a mistake slider". He didn't swing at anything other than that until he got 2 strikes. Because he became a selective hitter, he was patient.

[Warren Brusstar]

Since this whole patient approach has been brought up I have actually seen hitters take their hands off of the bat as a first pitch fastball right down the middle goes by. Yet, in the same AB they will swing at a 2-0 pitch on the outside corner.

 

I'm pretty sure you're not seeing those things in the same at-bat (unless the umpire called the fastball "right the middle" a ball.

[jersey cubs fan]

Isn't being more "selective" kind of the same thing as "patient"?

 

Absolutely not. Selective means choosing the right pitch to hit regardless of the count, whereas patience means working the count - which in turn translates to two quick strikes and a third one in the dirt swung at.

 

I wouldn't say absolutely not. They are very similar. You have to be patient in order to be selective. It's one thing if you just refuse to ever swing until you have 2 strikes, but I don't think that's what anybody really means when they talk about patience.

 

I think it's the other way around. If you are selective, then you automatically become patient. My favorite example is Sammy Sosa. He was the least patient hitter I had ever seen as a young player. He did not become an elite player until he realized, "hey, I can hit a thigh high, middle-in fast ball or a mistake slider". He didn't swing at anything other than that until he got 2 strikes. Because he became a selective hitter, he was patient.

 

Well I'm not arguing the chicken or egg theory. I'm just saying selectivity and patience are tied at the hip. chris and grace is saying they are completely different.