Can you pitch your way into a blown save?

[moorecg]

Considering the direction this team seems to be headed, this could be a fairly pertinent question.....I know you can't come into a non-save situation, give up runs, and then get a save...But if you come into a non-save situation and outright blow the game, is that a "Blown Save"?

[Derwood]

Considering the direction this team seems to be headed, this could be a fairly pertinent question.....I know you can't come into a non-save situation, give up runs, and then get a save...But if you come into a non-save situation and outright blow the game, is that a "Blown Save"?

 

yes. any time you give up an inherited lead, no matter how big, it is a blown save

[Soul]

But according to Ryan, it's O.K. because the Mets bench is just too damn good.

[rynefan]

Yeah. Doesn't count in this case because it's the METS bench. Just ask Ryan, he can explain it in further detail.

[C.C.]

But according to Ryan, it's O.K. because the Mets bench is just too damn good.

 

That pisses me off. "Tip your cap"? Is he serious? It's not about the Met's being good, it's about you flat out sucked yesterday Ryan!

[Ding Dong Johnson]

No, you cannot pitch yourself into a blown save just as you cannot pitch yourself into a save. A save situation is clearly defined, and it cannot become a save situation while the same pitcher is still on the mound. Dempster's performance yesterday was not a blown save, Eyre's was.

[jersey cubs fan]

No, you cannot pitch yourself into a blown save just as you cannot pitch yourself into a save. A save situation is clearly defined, and it cannot become a save situation while the same pitcher is still on the mound. Dempster's performance yesterday was not a blown save, Eyre's was.

 

But in this case, that's because Eyre was on the mound when the lead was lost. What if Dempster stayed in the whole time?

[NCCubFan]

No, you cannot pitch yourself into a blown save just as you cannot pitch yourself into a save. A save situation is clearly defined, and it cannot become a save situation while the same pitcher is still on the mound. Dempster's performance yesterday was not a blown save, Eyre's was.

 

But in this case, that's because Eyre was on the mound when the lead was lost. What if Dempster stayed in the whole time?

I still don't think it would be a blown save. You can't really blow something you don't have in the first place. It would have just been a loss, I believe.

[jersey cubs fan]

No, you cannot pitch yourself into a blown save just as you cannot pitch yourself into a save. A save situation is clearly defined, and it cannot become a save situation while the same pitcher is still on the mound. Dempster's performance yesterday was not a blown save, Eyre's was.

 

But in this case, that's because Eyre was on the mound when the lead was lost. What if Dempster stayed in the whole time?

I still don't think it would be a blown save. You can't really blow something you don't have in the first place. It would have just been a loss, I believe.

 

But it's not really an official stat anyway, so there's isn't a hard and fast rule. And since the save itself can be rewarded subjectively by the official scorer, I wouldn't see why Dempster wouldn't have gotten rung up with a BS if he stayed in the game.

[moorecg]

No, you cannot pitch yourself into a blown save just as you cannot pitch yourself into a save. A save situation is clearly defined, and it cannot become a save situation while the same pitcher is still on the mound. Dempster's performance yesterday was not a blown save, Eyre's was.

 

But in this case, that's because Eyre was on the mound when the lead was lost. What if Dempster stayed in the whole time?

I still don't think it would be a blown save. You can't really blow something you don't have in the first place. It would have just been a loss, I believe.

 

I would think that Eyre could get a Blown Save, b/c he came in during a save situation...Dempster on the other hand, I'm not sure, that's what made me ask the question.

[moorecg]

Following this line...could Eyre and Dempster BOTH get Blown Saves for this game?

[NCCubFan]

No, you cannot pitch yourself into a blown save just as you cannot pitch yourself into a save. A save situation is clearly defined, and it cannot become a save situation while the same pitcher is still on the mound. Dempster's performance yesterday was not a blown save, Eyre's was.

 

But in this case, that's because Eyre was on the mound when the lead was lost. What if Dempster stayed in the whole time?

I still don't think it would be a blown save. You can't really blow something you don't have in the first place. It would have just been a loss, I believe.

 

But it's not really an official stat anyway, so there's isn't a hard and fast rule. And since the save itself can be rewarded subjectively by the official scorer, I wouldn't see why Dempster wouldn't have gotten rung up with a BS if he stayed in the game.

That's true in one direction, but not both. An official scorer can refuse to award a save when a pitcher qualifies (although it's rare) because in his judgment the pitcher didn't pitch effectively, but he can't award a save when the pitcher doesn't qualify. And charging a pitcher with a blown save when there isn't a save to blow in the first place seems to me along the same lines as awarding a save when the pitcher doesn't meet the qualifications.

 

I don't know that I'm right and you're wrong about this; I'm just saying what seems logical to me. Maybe Mr. Miles can shed some light on this.

[jersey cubs fan]

Following this line...could Eyre and Dempster BOTH get Blown Saves for this game?

 

I highly doubt it. You blow a save when you are on the mound as you lose the lead. Dempster wasn't.

 

What I want to know is can you have multiple blown saves in a game where a reliever gives up the lead in the 7th, the team retakes the lead, and another reliever blows it in the 9th. I think you can. But again, it's not official, so there's no rule.

[NCCubFan]

Following this line...could Eyre and Dempster BOTH get Blown Saves for this game?

 

I highly doubt it. You blow a save when you are on the mound as you lose the lead. Dempster wasn't.

 

What I want to know is can you have multiple blown saves in a game where a reliever gives up the lead in the 7th, the team retakes the lead, and another reliever blows it in the 9th. I think you can. But again, it's not official, so there's no rule.

I believe that would happen, as long as both relievers were in save situations at the time they entered the game, just like more than one reliever can get a hold in the same game.

[fromthestretch]

An official scorer can refuse to award a save when a pitcher qualifies (although it's rare) because in his judgment the pitcher didn't pitch effectively, but he can't award a save when the pitcher doesn't qualify.

 

I don't believe this is true. An official scorer can refuse to give a reliever a WIN when he qualifies, if the official scorer feels another reliever pitched more effectively. This is specifically spelled out in the scoring rules for awarding wins. However, I don't believe the same applies to saves. As long as a pitcher meets the criteria for the save, he will get it, no matter how badly he pitched.

 

To answer the original question...a pitcher cannot be credited with a blown save if it is not a save situation to begin with.

[VicCub]

I was thinking derwood was right and that you get a blown save anytime you give up an inheirited lead.

 

But I'm starting to think that you are right grassbass. How can you blow a save if you weren't eligible to earn it?

 

Any final definitive answer?

[RichHillIsABeast]

A pitcher cannot make himself eligible for a save and therefore cannot blow that save. It's right in the rulebook.

[NCCubFan]

An official scorer can refuse to award a save when a pitcher qualifies (although it's rare) because in his judgment the pitcher didn't pitch effectively, but he can't award a save when the pitcher doesn't qualify.

 

I don't believe this is true. An official scorer can refuse to give a reliever a WIN when he qualifies, if the official scorer feels another reliever pitched more effectively. This is specifically spelled out in the scoring rules for awarding wins. However, I don't believe the same applies to saves. As long as a pitcher meets the criteria for the save, he will get it, no matter how badly he pitched.

You are right about wins. When that most likely comes into play is if the starter leaves the game with the lead but fails to pitch the required five innings to qualify for a win. However, it is also true for a save under one of the qualifications, which is to pitch effectively for at least three innings. In other words, if a pitcher enters a game with a 10 run lead, pitches three innings and gives up 9 runs, the official scorer could rule that he didn't pitch effectively and therefore refuse to award a save. I believe it's automatic for the other two qualifications, but under those two if the pitcher holds the lead it's pretty much a given that means he pitched effectively.