4/10 Post Game Thread: Come on

[RichHillIsABeast]

We were in the game today. That's about all you can ask a guy like Marquis.

 

That much is probably true. It's all you can reasonably expect. That doesnt' make it anywhere close to a good outing.

 

Sure enough.

 

Our starting pitcher could have gone 9 IP and given up 3 R and lost this game. That would have been a good outing. It still doesn't get it done though.

 

This offense will come around. I just wish it was sooner rather than later. We've wasted a couple decent starts by some of our more mediocre starting pitchers.

[papabear58]

But it extends the inning, no?

 

But that doesn't affect those stats. You can't give up 3 earned runs in the first and pretend to not share in the blame of a loss.

 

Sure, but it wasn't a poor outing.

 

No, it wasn't poor, it was terrible.

 

cool, so anyone who doesn't pitch complete game shutouts is terrible? Just so I know so we can move forward

 

That's a freaking stupid thing to write. Just stupid.

 

There's a very big difference between 5 IP, 4 R, 3 ER and a 1.60 WHIP and a complete game shutout.

 

Don't respond with that nonsense.

 

well my exaggeration aside, what satisfies you from a guy like marquis? my guess is nothing, since you always find something bad to say about every situation

 

No but as we're learning any pitcher having a bad game is subject to being chased with pitchforkes and torches until he turns arround and pitches a good game when he is lifted up and given the key to the city until he pitches a bad game and is chased with pitchforkes and torches.........

[jersey cubs fan]

well my exaggeration aside, what satisfies you from a guy like marquis? my guess is nothing, since you always find something bad to say about every situation

 

Whawhawha, negative negative negative.

 

Please.

 

In the long run, I'd be pleasantly surprised with a sub 4.50 ERA type season out of Marquis. On a game to game basis, it's hard to say. But when you give up 3 runs in the first, and end up with his line, you haven't come close to being good.

 

Just because he's sucked in the past is no reason to excuse sucking in the present.

[Soriano12]

Marquis is satan, please release him now. In fact, I am blaming all 5 of our losses now on him.

[UMFan83]

Shame on Marquis for not pitching a shutout today.

 

 

5.40 ERA

1.60 WHIP

 

I guess people think that's good around here.

 

Compared to last year, its probably good.

 

We were in the game today. That's about all you can ask a guy like Marquis.

 

No offense, but thats under the same line of thinking as "Who cares if his ERA was 6.02, he won 14 games!"

 

No. Marquis did his part to win the game. He go no run support. I don't know a pitcher out there who wins a game with the offense putting up goose eggs.

 

Agreed. No use splitting hairs here.

 

It's not splitting hairs. Follow my logic.

 

You say that if the Cubs did their part and scored runs, then we'd win the game.

 

So if every game, Marquis threw 5 innings of 3 ER ball. And most every game, the offense responded and won. So at the end of the year, Marquis won 20 games and had a 5.40 ERA.

 

Any way you look at it, he would have had a bad year statistically. It doesn't matter that he won 20 games, when being judged and compared to the rest of the pitchers of the year, his numbers would be quite poor other then wins and losses.

[Derwood]

But it extends the inning, no?

 

But that doesn't affect those stats. You can't give up 3 earned runs in the first and pretend to not share in the blame of a loss.

 

Sure, but it wasn't a poor outing.

 

No, it wasn't poor, it was terrible.

 

cool, so anyone who doesn't pitch complete game shutouts is terrible? Just so I know so we can move forward

 

That's a freaking stupid thing to write. Just stupid.

 

There's a very big difference between 5 IP, 4 R, 3 ER and a 1.60 WHIP and a complete game shutout.

 

Don't respond with that nonsense.

 

well my exaggeration aside, what satisfies you from a guy like marquis? my guess is nothing, since you always find something bad to say about every situation

 

No but as we're learning any pitcher having a bad game is subject to being chased with pitchforkes and torches until he turns arround and pitches a good game when he is lifted up and given the key to the city until he pitches a bad game and is chased with pitchforkes and torches.........

 

unless it's Marquis (or Jacque) where they can run off 20 great games in a row and people will still say "yeah, but he still sucks, and will next time, you'll see"

[UMFan83]

But it extends the inning, no?

 

But that doesn't affect those stats. You can't give up 3 earned runs in the first and pretend to not share in the blame of a loss.

 

Sure, but it wasn't a poor outing.

 

No, it wasn't poor, it was terrible.

 

cool, so anyone who doesn't pitch complete game shutouts is terrible? Just so I know so we can move forward

 

That's a freaking stupid thing to write. Just stupid.

 

There's a very big difference between 5 IP, 4 R, 3 ER and a 1.60 WHIP and a complete game shutout.

 

Don't respond with that nonsense.

 

well my exaggeration aside, what satisfies you from a guy like marquis? my guess is nothing, since you always find something bad to say about every situation

 

No but as we're learning any pitcher having a bad game is subject to being chased with pitchforkes and torches until he turns arround and pitches a good game when he is lifted up and given the key to the city until he pitches a bad game and is chased with pitchforkes and torches.........

 

Well thats not the case with Goony, he is generally one of the more impartial posters on this board. He is only pointing out facts, that a 5.40 ERA is NOT GOOD under any circumstances.

[CubColtPacer]

But it extends the inning, no?

 

But that doesn't affect those stats. You can't give up 3 earned runs in the first and pretend to not share in the blame of a loss.

 

Sure, but it wasn't a poor outing.

 

No, it wasn't poor, it was terrible.

 

cool, so anyone who doesn't pitch complete game shutouts is terrible? Just so I know so we can move forward

 

That's a freaking stupid thing to write. Just stupid.

 

There's a very big difference between 5 IP, 4 R, 3 ER and a 1.60 WHIP and a complete game shutout.

 

Don't respond with that nonsense.

 

well my exaggeration aside, what satisfies you from a guy like marquis? my guess is nothing, since you always find something bad to say about every situation

 

No but as we're learning any pitcher having a bad game is subject to being chased with pitchforkes and torches until he turns arround and pitches a good game when he is lifted up and given the key to the city until he pitches a bad game and is chased with pitchforkes and torches.........

 

Well thats not the case with Goony, he is generally one of the more impartial posters on this board. He is only pointing out facts, that a 5.40 ERA is NOT GOOD under any circumstances.

 

I think most people are encouraged because without the errors, Marquis probably has a low enough pitch count to go another inning or two-and the way he was going with not giving up any hits in the last 4 innings he pitched, he had a pretty good chance to get another scoreless inning. When 1 scoreless inning turns from a bad outing to a pretty good outing (5.40 ERA to 4.50 ERA), then the outing really couldn't have been that horrible.

[C.C.]

Shame on Marquis for not pitching a shutout today.

 

 

5.40 ERA

1.60 WHIP

 

I guess people think that's good around here.

 

Compared to last year, its probably good.

 

We were in the game today. That's about all you can ask a guy like Marquis.

 

No offense, but thats under the same line of thinking as "Who cares if his ERA was 6.02, he won 14 games!"

 

No. Marquis did his part to win the game. He go no run support. I don't know a pitcher out there who wins a game with the offense putting up goose eggs.

 

Agreed. No use splitting hairs here.

 

It's not splitting hairs. Follow my logic.

 

You say that if the Cubs did their part and scored runs, then we'd win the game.

 

So if every game, Marquis threw 5 innings of 3 ER ball. And most every game, the offense responded and won. So at the end of the year, Marquis won 20 games and had a 5.40 ERA.

 

Any way you look at it, he would have had a bad year statistically. It doesn't matter that he won 20 games, when being judged and compared to the rest of the pitchers of the year, his numbers would be quite poor other then wins and losses.

 

I doubt every game the Cubs make three errors. You can't base an entire season on 1 game. He wasn't great today, but he was 1 inning away from a "quality start". If it wasn't for the two Izzy errors, he probably would've of gotten there.

[Soriano12]

So if Marquis 5.4 ERA has so much relavence today, I guess you give equal weight to his 1.50 ERA last start.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Marquis had to get a few more outs today thanks to Barrett and Izturis. He cost himself the out at 1B with that poor throw to Izzy which should have been caught.

 

It's pretty disingenuous to just go off his stat line when you battery mate and SS are doing such a poor job, IMO.

[jersey cubs fan]

Marquis had to get a few more outs today thanks to Barrett and Izturis. He cost himself the out at 1B with that poor throw to Izzy which should have been caught.

 

It's pretty disingenuous to just go off his stat line when you battery mate and SS are doing such a poor job, IMO.

 

It's pretty disingenuous to compare complaining about this game with complaining about anything shy of a perfect game (several people did this). It's pretty disingenuous to pretend those three first inning runs were related to the defense instead of Marquis's not goodness.

[Sammy Sofa]

I have nothing to add except that I was really hoping that our first streak of the season would be winning one.

 

Now I'm sad.

[jersey cubs fan]

So if Marquis 5.4 ERA has so much relavence today, I guess you give equal weight to his 1.50 ERA last start.

 

Yeah, he had a nice outing last time. I don't recall everything, but I don't think he walked more than 1 and gave up less than a runner an inning. If he were to do that all year I'd be ecstatic. If he does what he did today all year I'll be pissed. If he's in between, that'll be fine. But he can't walk more than he strikes out and he can't average less than 6 IP if he wants to have a decent season.

[papabear58]

Marquis had to get a few more outs today thanks to Barrett and Izturis. He cost himself the out at 1B with that poor throw to Izzy which should have been caught.

 

It's pretty disingenuous to just go off his stat line when you battery mate and SS are doing such a poor job, IMO.

 

It's pretty disingenuous to compare complaining about this game with complaining about anything shy of a perfect game (several people did this). It's pretty disingenuous to pretend those three first inning runs were related to the defense instead of Marquis's not goodness.

 

Yes, Marquis had a bad game, no it's not the end of the world, yes the errors cost him, no it's not all on the errors, yes if the offense had done better earlier in the game it might have changed strategies and had a different result.... we could go on forever. We all would have liked a better performance from him, but it's not ALL his fault as some people seem to be atributing it to.

[98navigator]

bad - cubs lose

good - i was right not to overreact about marquis (unlike everyone else)

 

How?

 

1.60 WHIP

5.40 ERA

 

That's flat out terrible.

 

This doesn't tell the whole story. He was fine after the first inning. If the Cubs had scored runs, while he was in the game, and played error-free ball, he wouldn't have been lifted for a pinch hitter. He did walk a few people but I don't think any of those scored. The errors probably robbed him of at least one more inning of work (maybe two).

[bc2k]

Marquis impressed me with the way he pitched through jams created by poor defense. In one inning the Astros had men on first and second with nobody out, yet he didn't allow a run to score.

 

A couple innings later he was in a bases loaded jam (thanks in part to his walks and an Izturis error) yet he only allowed one run to score.

 

Marquis did a good job avoiding the big inning and keeping the game close. Had he not been forced to throw so many extra pitches due to the Cubs errors, it's reasonable to expect him to have pitched at least one more inning. Granted, he wouldn't have been guaranteed to pitch it scoreless, but I like what I saw from Marquis today, and in his first start of the season.

[jersey cubs fan]

Marquis had to get a few more outs today thanks to Barrett and Izturis. He cost himself the out at 1B with that poor throw to Izzy which should have been caught.

 

It's pretty disingenuous to just go off his stat line when you battery mate and SS are doing such a poor job, IMO.

 

It's pretty disingenuous to compare complaining about this game with complaining about anything shy of a perfect game (several people did this). It's pretty disingenuous to pretend those three first inning runs were related to the defense instead of Marquis's not goodness.

 

Yes, Marquis had a bad game, no it's not the end of the world, yes the errors cost him, no it's not all on the errors, yes if the offense had done better earlier in the game it might have changed strategies and had a different result.... we could go on forever. We all would have liked a better performance from him, but it's not ALL his fault as some people seem to be atributing it to.

 

I don't see anybody saying it was all his fault. I've been the most vocal critic of him in this thread, and I've repeatedly said it was Marquis, Izturis and the lineup collectively. Multiple people have tried to absolve Marquis of any responsibility.

[Banedon]

I still say it's Corey Patterson's fault.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Marquis had to get a few more outs today thanks to Barrett and Izturis. He cost himself the out at 1B with that poor throw to Izzy which should have been caught.

 

It's pretty disingenuous to just go off his stat line when you battery mate and SS are doing such a poor job, IMO.

 

It's pretty disingenuous to compare complaining about this game with complaining about anything shy of a perfect game (several people did this). It's pretty disingenuous to pretend those three first inning runs were related to the defense instead of Marquis's not goodness.

 

I don't think I made any of those claims.

 

Marquis sucked in the first inning (he wasn't Wade Miller bad). Other than that he was pretty decent considering the extra outs he had to get.

 

6 or 7 IP (thanks to his PC going up with the defensive misplays) and 3 ER looks pretty decent to me. That's what he was looking at with decent defense.

 

On a side note, Izzy really sucked today.

[macuser2]

Yeah we are all disappointed. I know it's early, but I had that SSDD feeling today. (Same S--- Different Day). And to think, I paid for both Extra Innings and MLB.TV so as to never miss a game. That money could have bought a case of good scotch.

 

If 2003 hadn't happened, I wouldn't care, probably.

[jersey cubs fan]

bad - cubs lose

good - i was right not to overreact about marquis (unlike everyone else)

 

How?

 

1.60 WHIP

5.40 ERA

 

That's flat out terrible.

 

This doesn't tell the whole story. He was fine after the first inning. If the Cubs had scored runs, while he was in the game, and played error-free ball, he wouldn't have been lifted for a pinch hitter. He did walk a few people but I don't think any of those scored. The errors probably robbed him of at least one more inning of work (maybe two).

 

There's no guarantee those innings would have been run free. I'm not saying that tells the whole story, but it tells enough of the story to debunk the myth that he did a good job. He recovered from his own crap start, but that doesn't negate what he did earlier.

[papabear58]

Marquis had to get a few more outs today thanks to Barrett and Izturis. He cost himself the out at 1B with that poor throw to Izzy which should have been caught.

 

It's pretty disingenuous to just go off his stat line when you battery mate and SS are doing such a poor job, IMO.

 

It's pretty disingenuous to compare complaining about this game with complaining about anything shy of a perfect game (several people did this). It's pretty disingenuous to pretend those three first inning runs were related to the defense instead of Marquis's not goodness.

 

Yes, Marquis had a bad game, no it's not the end of the world, yes the errors cost him, no it's not all on the errors, yes if the offense had done better earlier in the game it might have changed strategies and had a different result.... we could go on forever. We all would have liked a better performance from him, but it's not ALL his fault as some people seem to be atributing it to.

 

I don't see anybody saying it was all his fault. I've been the most vocal critic of him in this thread, and I've repeatedly said it was Marquis, Izturis and the lineup collectively. Multiple people have tried to absolve Marquis of any responsibility.

 

Funny, I don't think anyones trying to say that he has no responsability at all, I think they are just saying that there was more to it then just Marquis pitching poorly.

[jersey cubs fan]

6 or 7 IP (thanks to his PC going up with the defensive misplays) and 3 ER looks pretty decent to me. That's what he was looking at with decent defense.

 

He didn't go 6 or 7. You can't just credit him for something he didn't accomplish. He contributed to the defensive problems that prolonged his outing.

[CubColtPacer]

Really though, the Cubs biggest thing missing from their offense is the home run. They've kept their SLG all right so far because of some doubles (some that were singles stretched into doubles-Soriano and Izturis with 4 doubles, Lee with 3), but they only have 4 HR overall and only 1 that wasn't a solo HR. That is not going to continue all season long-they are on pace for 81 HR, and they likely will hit more than double that. That's not the only thing wrong with the offense so far, but that is by far the biggest thing right now.