Matsuzaka SI Cover story

[Bruno7481]

Interesting story. Japanese pitchers throw a ton, some even go to the bullpen for work after being removed from a game. Matsuzaka threw a 103 pitch bullpen session his 2nd workout of the spring.

 

I find it comical when people freak out when a starter reachers 100 pitches, the mythical cut-off point. I think it too simple to blame injuries on pitch counts alone.

 

I do agree with the thesis, pitcher need to throw more, not less. They are pampered way too much over here.

 

Read the story, curious to see what you think.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/tom_verducci/03/20/matsuzaka0326/index.html

[A New Era]

I guess injuries can happen if

 

1) you pile too much of a workload on a young pitcher who is not ready for it

 

2) a hard thrower throws too many pitches too often (a 96-97 MPH thrower) since harder throws are more damaging than a 89 MPH thrower for example.

 

3) genetically some people are not built well for too much stress on the shoulders. .

[Z38]

Well since pitchers used to throw at least 150 pitches a game back in the day I do think the pitchers should be able to throw more. Although It should be said the reason they started throwing less in my opinion is because managers would rather have 90-100 pitches at max velocity then 150-175 at 75% velocity, which is how they are able to do it. Pitchers should be able to go 130 on average but they don't because they never build up the arm strength to do so, and because they pitch 100% all the time. Come to think of it that is the reason more than anything else you see so many injuries these days to pitchers arms. They throw full out soooo much their elbows/shoulders begin to break down. Throwing with less velocity, even if you throw a lot more pitches is better for your arm. Think about it. If you went out and played catch throwing 20 times all the way to home plate from left field your arm would be more tired and hurt more than if you threw 35-40 times just to the cut off man. Thats the best example that comes to mind that the average joe, like myself, can relate to.

[baseball7897]

I guess injuries can happen if

 

1) you pile too much of a workload on a young pitcher who is not ready for it

 

2) a hard thrower throws too many pitches too often (a 96-97 MPH thrower) since harder throws are more damaging than a 89 MPH thrower for example.

 

3) genetically some people are not built well for too much stress on the shoulders. .

 

The majority of arm injuries come after a pitchers mechaincs begin to suffer. Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson are a couple of names that come to my mind when asked of power pitchers who were able to stay healthy the majority of their careers. They were able to repeat their mechaincs every time they threw a pitch, and that is why they were able to stay healthy the majority of their careers. When you see these young power arms like Liriano suffer from an elbow injury, the first thing that jumps out of my head is their mechaincs are garbage. Liriano throwing 95+mph fastball's with a mid 80 slider with bad mechaincs is asking for an arm injury. Obviously Kerry Wood would be another example of this.

 

I agree with Bruno on the fact pitchers baby their arms these days. Throwing more often will put more arm strength on you, and in the end will allow you to throw deeper into ball games. But mechaincs are key to every single pitcher if they want to remain healthy in their careers.

[oldstyle81]

300 ft long tosses, thats pretty far

[brinoch]

Calling pitchers babies or pansies for taking care of their arm is silly. Baseball history is loaded with pitchers who blew their elbow and/or shoulder out. Pitching is incredibly hard on one's arm, and throwing more and more and more isn't going to magically make it better by building endurance.

 

When a pitcher's mechanics begin to deteriorate, it's time to relieve them.

 

Furthermore, over time, there can be structural degradation from too much use.

 

In all seriousness, Mark Prior is a perfect example of the impact of overwork and degraded mechanics.

[A New Era]

I guess injuries can happen if

 

1) you pile too much of a workload on a young pitcher who is not ready for it

 

2) a hard thrower throws too many pitches too often (a 96-97 MPH thrower) since harder throws are more damaging than a 89 MPH thrower for example.

 

3) genetically some people are not built well for too much stress on the shoulders. .

 

The majority of arm injuries come after a pitchers mechaincs begin to suffer. Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson are a couple of names that come to my mind when asked of power pitchers who were able to stay healthy the majority of their careers. They were able to repeat their mechaincs every time they threw a pitch, and that is why they were able to stay healthy the majority of their careers. When you see these young power arms like Liriano suffer from an elbow injury, the first thing that jumps out of my head is their mechaincs are garbage. Liriano throwing 95+mph fastball's with a mid 80 slider with bad mechaincs is asking for an arm injury. Obviously Kerry Wood would be another example of this.

 

I agree with Bruno on the fact pitchers baby their arms these days. Throwing more often will put more arm strength on you, and in the end will allow you to throw deeper into ball games. But mechaincs are key to every single pitcher if they want to remain healthy in their careers.

 

Ah, good point. This makes me feel better about Zambrano. How are his mechanics? Have they been written about at all?

[Brian]

I read the article to and was pretty fascinated.

 

A couple of other interesting points.

 

- Boston ordered an MRI on his shoulder right away, it was clean as a whistle. All perfectly healthy. I think more than his workload, he's just a genetic freak.

 

- The amount of pitches he threw in high school. During Japan's equivalent of March Madness in High School Baseball. The days and amount of pitches (I don't have it handy but I know he threw an insane amount of pitches in several games and closed a game in the middle), all this would make the story from Kerry Wood's final High School days seem like a normal workload.

[10man]

Well since pitchers used to throw at least 150 pitches a game back in the day I do think the pitchers should be able to throw more. Although It should be said the reason they started throwing less in my opinion is because managers would rather have 90-100 pitches at max velocity then 150-175 at 75% velocity, which is how they are able to do it. Pitchers should be able to go 130 on average but they don't because they never build up the arm strength to do so, and because they pitch 100% all the time. Come to think of it that is the reason more than anything else you see so many injuries these days to pitchers arms. They throw full out soooo much their elbows/shoulders begin to break down. Throwing with less velocity, even if you throw a lot more pitches is better for your arm. Think about it. If you went out and played catch throwing 20 times all the way to home plate from left field your arm would be more tired and hurt more than if you threw 35-40 times just to the cut off man. Thats the best example that comes to mind that the average joe, like myself, can relate to.

This is the reason that an engine put in a race car going at max speeds all the time will blow out much much earlier than the same engine put in a car going at the freeway speed limit.