Mark Prior should be optioned to AAA Iowa

[98navigator]

He'd probably be better off staying in Mesa than going to Des Moines.

 

Normally I'd agree with that idea; if he were just a week or two behind schedule. My fear is that he's months away from being ready to pitch for the Cubs. I'd hate to see him DL'd and only able make a few starts this year (like the 9 last year). I want the team to "own" his rights for as long as possible. I think he still has the opportunity to be very good.

 

Seriously, how is this different than sending Sean Marshall to AAA? All things being equal, Marshall may have contended for a rotation spot if he were healthy (this says nothing about their respective pitching ceilings). It seems to me that the Cubs are prepared to treat this situation with kid gloves even if it's not the best thing for the team.

 

Perhaps my view will change if he's markedly better in his Thursday start. Again, if he's just a little behind, then I agree that extended ST is the way to go. If it's going to be a few months, he should be demoted IMO.

 

If Sean Marshall is ready for AAA, the Cubs should send him there. These are two independent situations and should be treated as such. It has nothing to do with their respective ceilings.

 

I think Prior would be best off in extended spring training, exclusively working on fixing his mechanical flaws, before getting into minor league game action. Also, Arizona April weather has to be better for Prior than Iowa April weather.

 

You make a good point, I probably should be advocating that he be sent to A Daytona or AA Tenn where the weather should be considerably nicer and more conducive to pitching (I'm totally serious).

 

I realize that Prior has won 42 ML games but his most recent history says that he'll need a lot of in-season rehabilitation. In the end, his only benefit to the team is pitching and if he's going to miss half the season (or more) it makes little sense to allow him to simultaneously accrue ML time. Of course, I don't know how long Prior's going to miss but he hasn't done anything yet, this ST, to make me confident that he'll be ready to go soon.

 

For the record, I didn't have this view going into 2006. After all, he made 27 starts the previous year. However, in light of the 9 starts last season and the erratic command and decreased velocity this ST, I'm convinced that he'll need considerable time to get himself back to respectable form.

 

He has a chance to prove me wrong on Thursday. I hope he does but without a measurable improvement the Cubs have no logical choice but to send him down.

 

He's not going to fix his mechanical issues in such a situation. If he needs to do that, he needs to be on his own schedule at extended ST - he can get into simulated games and then rehab his way up the minors. There's no point in sending him wherever in the minors if he needs to work on something specific.

 

You just want him in the minors so he won't accrue service time. I think it's in the Cubs' best interest if they did whatever it took to get him back to helping the big league team - not do whatever it takes to keep control of him longer.

 

 

You're right, the accrual of service time is important to me because it's coming down to the wire... I am also very much interested in him getting better. I think that can happen in the MiLs. The truth is, they are probably going to send him down on rehab anyway. My view is, why not stop the clock while all the rehabbing is going on? They can have whomever it is that will be helping him with one-on-one instruction in Mesa, go down to the Minors to help him. It may be selfish to some degree but he's already earned a year of time on the DL--I think it's time to take a different approach.

 

Would you still think sending him to extended ST is the right choice if it turns out that he makes about 10 starts all year (and adds another year to the clock)?

[98navigator]

To be clear, Prior does have options but he also must clear waivers. I don't believe that other teams won't claim him. Why wouldn't KC for example claim Prior? They are already on bad terms with Hendry and its not like hiding Mark prior in their BP is going to hurt their WS aspirations.

 

So extended ST is really the only option right now.

 

He only has to clear revocable major league waivers. He'd never end up with any team who put in the claim. If this were outright/special waivers or otherwise irrevocable ML waivers, you'd be correct.

 

But I agree the best option is staying in Mesa for the reasons Raisin explained.

 

I understand that the waivers are revocable but if your KC isn't it worth taking the chance? There's no risk in claiming him except annoying Hendry and KC's GM doesn't seem to mind that too much.

 

If they choose that optioning him is better, does it really matter? You take a chance that you can slip him by, and if somebody claims him you pull him back and put him on the DL-isn't that allowed?

 

Yes

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Would you still think sending him to extended ST is the right choice if it turns out that he makes about 10 starts all year (and adds another year to the clock)?

 

Yes.

[98navigator]

Would you still think sending him to extended ST is the right choice if it turns out that he makes about 10 starts all year (and adds another year to the clock)?

 

Yes.

 

LOL, I wouldn't! :D

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Would you still think sending him to extended ST is the right choice if it turns out that he makes about 10 starts all year (and adds another year to the clock)?

 

Yes.

 

LOL, I wouldn't! :D

 

Imo, Prior is more likely to return to the big leagues while devoting his whole time to fixing the mechanical and other errors and then working on his arm strength. It will be tougher for him to do this while also keeping a normal pitching schedule - especially against talent that he'd be able to beat with his lesser stuff. If he only makes 10 starts after starting off in extended, I can't imagine he'd make many more while starting the season in the minors.

 

I don't care as much about his clock. If he struggles to make an impact with the big league team this season, the Cubs won't care much about his service time and will probably try to move on.

[goonys evil twin]

Would you still think sending him to extended ST is the right choice if it turns out that he makes about 10 starts all year (and adds another year to the clock)?

 

Yes.

 

LOL, I wouldn't! :D

 

Imo, Prior is more likely to return to the big leagues while devoting his whole time to fixing the mechanical and other errors and then working on his arm strength. It will be tougher for him to do this while also keeping a normal pitching schedule - especially against talent that he'd be able to beat with his lesser stuff. If he only makes 10 starts after starting off in extended, I can't imagine he'd make many more while starting the season in the minors.

 

I don't care as much about his clock. If he struggles to make an impact with the big league team this season, the Cubs won't care much about his service time and will probably try to move on.

 

I don't understand your theory that he wouldn't be able to work on his mechanics in the minors. If anything, I think he needs to pitch in game situations to get that work to translate. He doesn't need more side sessions. He needs to pitch. If you want to make an adjustment for the weather, let him start in Daytona. The ICubs open April 1 at Round Rock, then head to Alabama. He can get 2 starts there, then if you want to avoid the Iowa weather, have him go back to Arizona until the ICubs next southern road trip a week later.

 

I understand you thinking the Cubs should just worry about getting him major league ready as opposed to worrying about his option clock. But I don't see how keeping him in Arizona will expedite the process.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

He needs to pitch in game situations, but I'd rather he try to fix whatever his problems are before getting into the game situations itself. It's just my preference.

[goonys evil twin]

He needs to pitch in game situations, but I'd rather he try to fix whatever his problems are before getting into the game situations itself. It's just my preference.

 

He's got 15 days before the first AAA game, and he doesn't even need to be there by then to the best of my knowledge. I don't think we'll ever know if things are fixed until he looks good in game situations. He'll still have side sessions between outings, and they can put him on whatever type of rotation they like. Option him to AAA, let him start the season in Iowa, then if things don't look to be improving, you can DL him and send him back to Arizona. But keeping him in Zona from the outset offers no advantage.

[Amazing_Grace]

This is a good thread. Honestly, I think putting Prior in the minors might be just the motivation he needs to do what's necessary to get healthy. If his service clock stops, that's a huge incentive to learn to workout more next offseason or put in more time on daily exercises or pitch through the aches and pains, or whatever else he needs to do to get himself fixed.

 

We've been through this song and dance before. He's had extended ST and simulated games and all that stuff in previous years and it hasn't helped him. He's probably pitched more simulated games than real ones at this point in his career. Why should it work any better now, when it's not worked every other time the Cubs have tried it. Bottom line is this. Sooner or later Mark Prior is going to have to pitch to actual hitters and actually get them out. If he's injured with some diagnosable, medical, actual injury then he should be on the DL already and rehabbing not pitching. If he's actually completely healthy but he's just rusty or ineffective, the only remedy to that is to pitch, pitch, and pitch some more until he figures it out.

 

I don't see any reason why pitching somewhere in the minors would make it more difficult for him. He's not rehabbing anymore from what I'm hearing. He's just pitching very badly. The remedy for injuries is surgery, rest, rehab, and the remedy for pitching badly is practice. The talent is still there, but he's been through a lot and needs to relearn to pitch. The minors is the place to do it.

[Soul]

The problem I see is that people attach some sort of stigma to being optioned back to AAA.

 

OK, I'll buy that, but ultimately that's got to be put aside for the good of the player. More practice sessions in Arizona aren't what this guy needs. He's been doing way too much of that over the years anyway, IMO. He needs to be pitching in actual game situations.

 

He should be sent to AAA for now.

[MustangMike]

I'm sure this will be controversial to some people, but I would like to see Mark Prior optioned to AAA before he is able to veto the demotion. The Cubs would be well within their rights in doing so.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Mark and I would love for him to return to his previous dominance, but if he isn't going to be ready to pitch in the Major Leagues in a reasonable amount of time (less than a month), I don't want him to continue to accrue ML time! Placing a veteran, like Wood; who has considerable MLB service time, on the DL is the only choice for a team. However, I see allowing Prior to "rehab" in extended Spring Training as the team shooting itself in the foot. At this rate, Prior will be a free agent after the 2008 season. The Cubs may be getting him healthy in time for another team to take advantage of his skills.

 

The Cubs can extend Prior's time by optioning him to the MiLs, to work on his mechanics, instead of putting him on the DL and sending him on a rehab assignment. I'm sure the Cubs are weighing their options because they don't want a disgruntled player, but they have to do what is in the team's overall best interest. Last season they were understanding; Prior was DL'd after making only 9 appearances yet he earned a year of service time... This season they should take a different approach.

 

At what point do you think the cubs have enough if he's hurt again this year? Do they keep him in the minors and keep trying, hoping to keep his right, or do they after another year of injuries (if that happens), say enough is enough. I hope he returns to his former self, but I'm far from thinking it'll happen. I'd put him in AAA for now and hope for the best.

[98navigator]

At what point do you think the cubs have enough if he's hurt again this year? Do they keep him in the minors and keep trying, hoping to keep his right, or do they after another year of injuries (if that happens), say enough is enough. I hope he returns to his former self, but I'm far from thinking it'll happen. I'd put him in AAA for now and hope for the best.

 

I think the Cubs are encouraged, to some degree, because he's actually pitching in Spring Training. Unlike previous years, they have the opportunity to plan their next move with him instead of hoping and relying on him being ready to start the season.

 

It's very possible that Prior will be sent to extended Spring Training for 2 weeks-15 days. If he doesn't make enough improvement during that time, I can envision the Cubs quietly trying to option him to the MiL. Originally I was in support of AAA but if they are worried about the cold weather he can be sent to Daytona (A).

[98navigator]

Greg Couch/Suntimes tackles this topic in today's column.

 

The minor leagues are not the plague. They are not a disgrace. They are not punishment, not hell.

 

They're the place where people go to learn or to grind out their problems.

 

He's only 26, and if pain isn't the problem anymore, then that suggests it's something that can be fixed. The Cubs have brought in other pitchers and replaced him. The pressure is off.

 

Just send him to Des Moines and tell him it's time to find out what's inside. If he doesn't come through, as I expect, then nothing is lost. If he does and finds what made him great in the first place, then the Cubs win big.