Week 15: Bears vs. Tampa Bay - Sunday Dec 17, 12 pm CST

[Soul]

Apparently the refs review pager system failedat the end of the game on the Davis catch...they wanted to review it.

 

Also David Haugh thinks thatTank will get another chance, just maybe not this season.

 

They wisely distinguished between a legal matter handled by the league office—Thursday's misdemeanor charge after Gurnee police raided Johnson's house—and the insubordination Johnson showed in going clubbing hours after general manager Jerry Angelo warned him to straighten up. The NFL handles the former issue, the Bears the latter.

 

Maybe the Bears will suspend him for the insubordination since they can't for the legal matters?

 

How is it insubordination to visit a nightclub? If he had carried a GUN to the nightclub, then yea. But he was completely clean. So was Posey (miracle of miracles). Posey probably got killed because he was acting the way he always does----only this time he had no weapon to back him up. Tank obviously made an effort to steer clear of the situation. He wanted no trouble. Not his fault Posey couldn't do the same.

 

Come on--I went out last week too. Probably to a place that's a heck of a lot rougher than the Ice Bar. Should I lose my job too?

[goonys evil twin]

How is it insubordination to visit a nightclub? If he had carried a GUN to the nightclub, then yea. But he was completely clean. So was Posey (miracle of miracles). Posey probably got killed because he was acting the way he always does----only this time he had no weapon to back him up. Tank obviously made an effort to steer clear of the situation. He wanted no trouble. Not his fault Posey couldn't do the same.

 

Come on--I went out last week too. Probably to a place that's a heck of a lot rougher than the Ice Bar. Should I lose my job too?

 

There's nothing wrong with going out. But it is insubordination if your employer explicitly tells you to not do something, yet you do it anyway. Is that insubordination a fireable offense under the terms of the CBA? We don't know. But it's still insubordination.

[RynoRules]

The Bears cannot suspend him, IIRC. The NFL CBA vests the league itself with the right to assess fines and suspensions for this type of issue. This issue was resolved via the Owens and Keyshawn issues of recent years, where TB and Philly tried to get around the rule by placing players on the "inactive list" rather than suspending them or showing them the door.

 

EDIT: BTW, it is illegal in the State of Illnois for an employer to base an adverse employment action on anything short of a criminal conviction. In other words, employers may not take adverse action against employees based on charges, warrants, allegations, etc.

Edited December 19, 2006 by RynoRules

[Banedon]

The Bears cannot suspend him, IIRC. The NFL CBA vests the league itself with the right to assess fines and suspensions for this type of issue. This issue was resolved via the Owens and Keyshawn issues of recent years, where TB and Philly tried to get around the rule by placing players on the "inactive list" rather than suspending them or showing them the door.

 

They can't suspend him for the legal issues, but it's possible (and I don't know this for sure) that the Bears could suspend him for insubordination for going out to a nightclub after he was specifically told not to by Jerry Angelo.

[RynoRules]

The Bears cannot suspend him, IIRC. The NFL CBA vests the league itself with the right to assess fines and suspensions for this type of issue. This issue was resolved via the Owens and Keyshawn issues of recent years, where TB and Philly tried to get around the rule by placing players on the "inactive list" rather than suspending them or showing them the door.

 

EDIT: BTW, it is illegal in the State of Illnois for an employer to base an adverse employment action on anything short of a criminal conviction. In other words, employers may not take adverse action against employees based on charges, warrants, allegations, etc.

 

And adding to my own post, there is some question in my mind whether IL law has any application to this issue due to the CBA and the fact that the CBA was entered into between relatively peculiar organizations (the Union and the League) that are subject to fed. law, specifically, the National Labor Relations Act.

[goonys evil twin]

but it's possible (and I don't know this for sure) that the Bears could suspend him for insubordination for going out to a nightclub after he was specifically told not to by Jerry Angelo.

 

It's possible, but I have my doubts. Certainly Jerry has the right to tell a player in Tank's position what not to do when he leaves the facilities. But I really doubt whether they have any authority to actually enforce such rules. It would be insubordination, but, it's probably completely legal (if not justified) insubordination.

[Soul]

How is it insubordination to visit a nightclub? If he had carried a GUN to the nightclub, then yea. But he was completely clean. So was Posey (miracle of miracles). Posey probably got killed because he was acting the way he always does----only this time he had no weapon to back him up. Tank obviously made an effort to steer clear of the situation. He wanted no trouble. Not his fault Posey couldn't do the same.

 

Come on--I went out last week too. Probably to a place that's a heck of a lot rougher than the Ice Bar. Should I lose my job too?

 

There's nothing wrong with going out. But it is insubordination if your employer explicitly tells you to not do something, yet you do it anyway. Is that insubordination a fireable offense under the terms of the CBA? We don't know. But it's still insubordination.

 

I think we're speculating that the Bears actually TOLD Tank "do not go clubbing."

 

How do we know that? I haven't heard Lovie, or Angelo, specifically say that he should not go out or do anything. And anyway----you gave the guy the weekend off. What's he supposed to do? Coup himself up at home like a prisoner? Does an employer really have the right, after telling someone they aren't working, that they must also do nothing but sit around?

 

This whole thing is wacky. I know Tank is a problem, but I don't see how the Bears could have made all these specific prohibitions during one meeting Thursday. Or even that they really have the right to do that.

[Banedon]

but it's possible (and I don't know this for sure) that the Bears could suspend him for insubordination for going out to a nightclub after he was specifically told not to by Jerry Angelo.

 

It's possible, but I have my doubts. Certainly Jerry has the right to tell a player in Tank's position what not to do when he leaves the facilities. But I really doubt whether they have any authority to actually enforce such rules. It would be insubordination, but, it's probably completely legal (if not justified) insubordination.

 

But I'm sure there's a clause in his contract for something like that. Contracts can be voided for injuries from other sports played in the players free time. Or motorcycle riding, that kind of thing. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know all the legalities of it, but I imagine that's the kind of thing they're finding out if they can do.

[goonys evil twin]

How is it insubordination to visit a nightclub? If he had carried a GUN to the nightclub, then yea. But he was completely clean. So was Posey (miracle of miracles). Posey probably got killed because he was acting the way he always does----only this time he had no weapon to back him up. Tank obviously made an effort to steer clear of the situation. He wanted no trouble. Not his fault Posey couldn't do the same.

 

Come on--I went out last week too. Probably to a place that's a heck of a lot rougher than the Ice Bar. Should I lose my job too?

 

There's nothing wrong with going out. But it is insubordination if your employer explicitly tells you to not do something, yet you do it anyway. Is that insubordination a fireable offense under the terms of the CBA? We don't know. But it's still insubordination.

 

I think we're speculating that the Bears actually TOLD Tank "do not go clubbing."

 

How do we know that? I haven't heard Lovie, or Angelo, specifically say that he should not go out or do anything. And anyway----you gave the guy the weekend off. What's he supposed to do? Coup himself up at home like a prisoner? Does an employer really have the right, after telling someone they aren't working, that they must also do nothing but sit around?

 

This whole thing is wacky. I know Tank is a problem, but I don't see how the Bears could have made all these specific prohibitions during one meeting Thursday. Or even that they really have the right to do that.

 

I don't think it has anything to do with clubbing, I think it's specifically hanging out with a felon that pissed them off. We don't know if they said that, but every indication is that they were adament about him disassociating himself with known felons. Hanging out with felons simply increases your chances of getting in trouble. That's why people on parole are told to stay away from other felons.

 

It's not about the Bears telling him to lock himself in his home alone, and really, making claims like that just weakens the pro-Tank argument. It's about the Bears protecting their own assets and interests in trying to prevent a repeat offender from repeating his offenses once again.

 

I believe the Bears have every right to try and influence how Tank handles himself outside of Halas Hall. I do not think they have the legal authority to enforce any of these rules, however, and I don't believe it will do the team any good to get rid of him at this point.

[Soul]

but it's possible (and I don't know this for sure) that the Bears could suspend him for insubordination for going out to a nightclub after he was specifically told not to by Jerry Angelo.

 

It's possible, but I have my doubts. Certainly Jerry has the right to tell a player in Tank's position what not to do when he leaves the facilities. But I really doubt whether they have any authority to actually enforce such rules. It would be insubordination, but, it's probably completely legal (if not justified) insubordination.

 

But I'm sure there's a clause in his contract for something like that. Contracts can be voided for injuries from other sports played in the players free time. Or motorcycle riding, that kind of thing. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know all the legalities of it, but I imagine that's the kind of thing they're finding out if they can do.

 

I'm quite certain there's no clause in any contract on the planet that grants an employer carte' blance authority over someone's comings-and-goings after they leave work and are officially on their own time.

 

Sure, if they represent the company poorly there are repercussions. But the Bears are going to have a tough time saying Tank was representing the Bears poorly by showing up at an upscale club unarmed, just dancing on the dance floor like anyone else.

 

Also----when he was harrassed by someone in the club, it was Tank who didn't fire back. All reports I have seen say he did not involve himself, though his friend (probably quite predictably) went crazy.

[goonys evil twin]

but it's possible (and I don't know this for sure) that the Bears could suspend him for insubordination for going out to a nightclub after he was specifically told not to by Jerry Angelo.

 

It's possible, but I have my doubts. Certainly Jerry has the right to tell a player in Tank's position what not to do when he leaves the facilities. But I really doubt whether they have any authority to actually enforce such rules. It would be insubordination, but, it's probably completely legal (if not justified) insubordination.

 

But I'm sure there's a clause in his contract for something like that. Contracts can be voided for injuries from other sports played in the players free time. Or motorcycle riding, that kind of thing. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know all the legalities of it, but I imagine that's the kind of thing they're finding out if they can do.

 

Those injuries void contracts because they affect the player's ability to physically do his job. Going out clubbing, even if it's with a known felon, probably does not fall into that same category.

[Soul]

How is it insubordination to visit a nightclub? If he had carried a GUN to the nightclub, then yea. But he was completely clean. So was Posey (miracle of miracles). Posey probably got killed because he was acting the way he always does----only this time he had no weapon to back him up. Tank obviously made an effort to steer clear of the situation. He wanted no trouble. Not his fault Posey couldn't do the same.

 

Come on--I went out last week too. Probably to a place that's a heck of a lot rougher than the Ice Bar. Should I lose my job too?

 

There's nothing wrong with going out. But it is insubordination if your employer explicitly tells you to not do something, yet you do it anyway. Is that insubordination a fireable offense under the terms of the CBA? We don't know. But it's still insubordination.

 

I think we're speculating that the Bears actually TOLD Tank "do not go clubbing."

 

How do we know that? I haven't heard Lovie, or Angelo, specifically say that he should not go out or do anything. And anyway----you gave the guy the weekend off. What's he supposed to do? Coup himself up at home like a prisoner? Does an employer really have the right, after telling someone they aren't working, that they must also do nothing but sit around?

 

This whole thing is wacky. I know Tank is a problem, but I don't see how the Bears could have made all these specific prohibitions during one meeting Thursday. Or even that they really have the right to do that.

 

I don't think it has anything to do with clubbing, I think it's specifically hanging out with a felon that pissed them off. We don't know if they said that, but every indication is that they were adament about him disassociating himself with known felons. Hanging out with felons simply increases your chances of getting in trouble. That's why people on parole are told to stay away from other felons.

 

It's not about the Bears telling him to lock himself in his home alone, and really, making claims like that just weakens the pro-Tank argument. It's about the Bears protecting their own assets and interests in trying to prevent a repeat offender from repeating his offenses once again.

 

I believe the Bears have every right to try and influence how Tank handles himself outside of Halas Hall. I do not think they have the legal authority to enforce any of these rules, however, and I don't believe it will do the team any good to get rid of him at this point.

 

Man that's rough. The guy was his best friend from childhood. He's a felon, it's bad. I can imagine it would be real tough to walk out of Halas Hall on Thursday, tell Posey "I don't ever want to see you again" and then by Friday there's no friendship. All his stuff what?---thrown out into the street?

 

I can only imagine. What if it was a last night out together? Farewell----we've got to stay away for the good of your career, but tonight we will go out for old time's sake. Then this happens---some freak starts harrassing Tank.

 

Tough break. I go back to the fact that Tank---who would be the most likely guy to freak out on this dude who was harrassing him---seemed to have deliberately not fired back. Seems like Tank was making an effort.

[goonys evil twin]

Man that's rough. The guy was his best friend from childhood. He's a felon, it's bad. I can imagine it would be real tough to walk out of Halas Hall on Thursday, tell Posey "I don't ever want to see you again" and then by Friday there's no friendship. All his stuff what?---thrown out into the street?

 

I can only imagine. What if it was a last night out together? Farewell----we've got to stay away for the good of your career, but tonight we will go out for old time's sake. Then this happens---some freak starts harrassing Tank.

 

Tough break. I go back to the fact that Tank---who would be the most likely guy to freak out on this dude who was harrassing him---seemed to have deliberately not fired back. Seems like Tank was making an effort.

 

Wow, how noble of him to have not fired back.

 

It's not that tough. "Hey, this situation has caused a heap of trouble, I can't hang with you right now. Let's wait for things to cool off, and we'll get in touch in the offseason."

 

It's actually quite simple. These aren't 12 year olds that need their bestest buddy by their sides at all times. A grown man can say see you later quite easily. People say bye to great friends all the time, whether it's going away to a distant college or moving for a new job. Any reasonable human being has no problem saying "I'll see you in the future".

 

I'm not interested in getting rid of Tank. But all this "poor Tank should be allowed one last night with his gangbangin' felonious friend" talk is nonsense. Tank made his bed. He brought the trouble into his life. I pity him for losing a friend this way, but it's hardly shocking when a guy like that goes down to gun violence. Tank had a perfect opportunity to avoid the situation. But he chose to go against his already very forgiving employers wishes.

 

He didn't deserve to have a friend killed, and he doesn't necessarily deserve to lose his job (although that could end up making him more money in the end, if some other teams steps up and pays for his services via free agency). But he chose to make the wrong decisions that could have ramifications.

[bukie]

Trib article stating Tank likely to get one more chance: http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/cs-061218haughtankjohnson,1,4786835.column?coll=cs-home-headlines

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Trib article stating Tank likely to get one more chance: http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/cs-061218haughtankjohnson,1,4786835.column?coll=cs-home-headlines

 

I'm glad to hear that.

[Soul]

Trib article stating Tank likely to get one more chance: http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/cs-061218haughtankjohnson,1,4786835.column?coll=cs-home-headlines

 

I'm glad to hear that.

 

If they make it clear to Tank this is his absolute last chance, then I think we can all be satisfied if he still won't clean up and we need to let him go.

 

Looks like they might not let him play the rest of the year. I know of few, if any, other franchises that would so seriously hamper their chances at a championship.

[David]

Trib article stating Tank likely to get one more chance: http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/cs-061218haughtankjohnson,1,4786835.column?coll=cs-home-headlines

 

I'm glad to hear that.

 

If they make it clear to Tank this is his absolute last chance, then I think we can all be satisfied if he still won't clean up and we need to let him go.

 

Looks like they might not let him play the rest of the year. I know of few, if any, other franchises that would so seriously hamper their chances at a championship.

 

Well, the prevailing speculation that I've heard is that they'll deactivate him for the rest of the regular season, and that he very well could be back for the first playoff game.

[BigbadB]

Meh, he'll have learned his lesson by playoff time.

[jjgman21]

sounds like Tank will be back for the finale and the playoffs

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2702730

[David]

Turns out Johnson's guns were all legally registered in AZ, where he's a legal resident.

 

Looks like the charges might be dropped, and what originally happened (the raid and the results) really weren't as big a deal as they were originally made out to be.

 

Big difference between legally acquiring guns and getting them off the street.

 

He still was firing them all over his backyard like an idiot, though.

 

Johnson still could face a penalty from the league under its personal conduct policy for the misdemeanor gun charges, but a source close to Johnson indicated those could be dropped because the weapons were registered in Arizona, where he is a legal resident.

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/cs-061219bearstank,1,903963.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

[oldstyle81]

Turns out Johnson's guns were all legally registered in AZ, where he's a legal resident.

 

Looks like the charges might be dropped, and what originally happened (the raid and the results) really weren't as big a deal as they were originally made out to be.

 

Big difference between legally acquiring guns and getting them off the street.

 

He still was firing them all over his backyard like an idiot, though.

 

Johnson still could face a penalty from the league under its personal conduct policy for the misdemeanor gun charges, but a source close to Johnson indicated those could be dropped because the weapons were registered in Arizona, where he is a legal resident.

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/cs-061219bearstank,1,903963.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

 

 

from what channel 5 said, it wasant tank firing the guns it was posey. posey got mad at one of the dogs and took a shot at it.

[Soriano12]

Turns out Johnson's guns were all legally registered in AZ, where he's a legal resident.

 

Looks like the charges might be dropped, and what originally happened (the raid and the results) really weren't as big a deal as they were originally made out to be.

 

Big difference between legally acquiring guns and getting them off the street.

 

He still was firing them all over his backyard like an idiot, though.

 

Johnson still could face a penalty from the league under its personal conduct policy for the misdemeanor gun charges, but a source close to Johnson indicated those could be dropped because the weapons were registered in Arizona, where he is a legal resident.

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/cs-061219bearstank,1,903963.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

 

 

from what channel 5 said, it wasant tank firing the guns it was posey. posey got mad at one of the dogs and took a shot at it.

 

man, that posey guy was a scumbag, dragging Tank down IMO.

[David]

Turns out Johnson's guns were all legally registered in AZ, where he's a legal resident.

 

Looks like the charges might be dropped, and what originally happened (the raid and the results) really weren't as big a deal as they were originally made out to be.

 

Big difference between legally acquiring guns and getting them off the street.

 

He still was firing them all over his backyard like an idiot, though.

 

Johnson still could face a penalty from the league under its personal conduct policy for the misdemeanor gun charges, but a source close to Johnson indicated those could be dropped because the weapons were registered in Arizona, where he is a legal resident.

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/cs-061219bearstank,1,903963.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

 

 

from what channel 5 said, it wasant tank firing the guns it was posey. posey got mad at one of the dogs and took a shot at it.

 

I suppose this adds another twist to our debate from before about whether Posey was really doing anything that harmed Tank. :wink:

[Banedon]

The moral outrage from the columnists this morning is amusing.

 

Rick Morrissey is comparing this to a kid that made an actual on-the-job mistake getting fired, which isn't the same thing. If Tank was a crappy ballplayer, he wouldn't be on this team...bad guy or not.

 

Greg Couch is comparing it to the NBA coming down hard on 'Melo and company...except again, that was an on-the-court incident, and this all is stuff in Tank's private life.

 

If you're going to be morally outraged, you better be outraged that Ray Lewis, Jamal Lewis, and a gaggle of Bengals all are still playing football too.

[Banedon]

I just emailed Greg Couch about his article:

 

Greg,

 

Tank's situation is completely different from the Carmelo situation. That was a situation that took place on the court, spilled into the fans (however briefly) and was televised mayhem that was replayed on Sportscenter countless times. Tank's situation is something that took place in his private life. The guns he owned were registered in Arizona apparently, and rumor has it that the charges may even be dropped. The bad guy here was Willie Posey. He's the one that apparently took a shot at a dog in the backyard, had drugs on him, and got himself into an altercation that got himself killed. Tank's guilt here is by association with a problem guy. And he's supposed to be kicked off the team for that? The Bears did the right thing. Tank had legal troubles twice before, and he should have shown better judgment the night after the raid and not gone out. No question. I think the death of his friend and 2 games off is enough punishment, don't you?

 

Comparing this to the NBA, a league that gives you Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson, Rasheed Wallace, Jason Kidd, Kwame Brown, Stephon Marbury, Eddie Griffen, Jermaine O'neal, DeShawn Stevenson, Jason Richardson, Joe Smith, Jerry Stackhouse, Chris Webber, Ron Mercer and Chancy Billups…all players with arrest records ranging from rape to drug possession to domestic battery, is just funny to me.