Should the Cubs Do Anything if Marcus Giles is Non-Tendered?

[Diffusion]

Heh, iirc data suggests that right handed platoon splits really aren't sustainable or are insignificant, though in DeRosa's case it would work in the other direction where he starts to hit worse against lefties and stays the same against righties.

 

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say with that.

 

Are you saying we should look only at DeRosa's career numbers because the difference between splits for a right-handed hitter, however large, is probably co-incidential (as righties that can't hit righties are rooted out in the minors)?

[Diffusion]

With DeRosa's ability to play all over the field, there shouldn't be a reason not to pursue Giles.

 

Other than the reason DeRosa came to Chicago was to start at 2B.

 

When a 28-year-old .285/.361/.448 career good defensive second baseman comes on the market, you make sure you revise any plans you may once have had for Mark DeRosa-types. Alternatively, you could do yourself a favour and have made better plans for Mark DeRosa-types in the first place, plans not involving a starting job and a three year commitment.

[Mephistopheles]

Heh, iirc data suggests that right handed platoon splits really aren't sustainable or are insignificant, though in DeRosa's case it would work in the other direction where he starts to hit worse against lefties and stays the same against righties.

 

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say with that.

 

Are you saying we should look only at DeRosa's career numbers because the difference between splits for a right-handed hitter, however large, is probably co-incidential (as righties that can't hit righties are rooted out in the minors)?

 

sort of - i was saying he probably isnt as good against lefties as his splits suggest.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Letting Mark DeRosa get in the way of a pursuit of Giles is dum, dum, dum, dum, dum.

[Diffusion]

Heh, iirc data suggests that right handed platoon splits really aren't sustainable or are insignificant, though in DeRosa's case it would work in the other direction where he starts to hit worse against lefties and stays the same against righties.

 

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say with that.

 

Are you saying we should look only at DeRosa's career numbers because the difference between splits for a right-handed hitter, however large, is probably co-incidential (as righties that can't hit righties are rooted out in the minors)?

 

sort of - i was saying he probably isnt as good against lefties as his splits suggest.

 

Fair enough, but that doesn't really counter the point that he's not good enough even against righties for an everyday job, unless you assume some transferance of his lefty split to his righty split. What's the case that it's fair to assume that?

 

I think I've perhaps unfairly assumed you're arguing for DeRosa here as opposed to just making a general observation, by the way.

[Mephistopheles]

I'm not really making an argument, just an observation. I don't usually mke an argument here that often, save the Soriano thread. The time for me to complain about signing Mark DeRosa has come and gone. Now I can complain about sunk costs and still keeping him there.

[Guest]

Let's see, how should I say this. :-k

 

 

SIGN GILES!

 

and infante

[RichHillIsABeast]

With DeRosa's ability to play all over the field, there shouldn't be a reason not to pursue Giles.

 

Other than the reason DeRosa came to Chicago was to start at 2B.

 

When a 28-year-old .285/.361/.448 career good defensive second baseman comes on the market, you make sure you revise any plans you may once have had for Mark DeRosa-types. Alternatively, you could do yourself a favour and have made better plans for Mark DeRosa-types in the first place, plans not involving a starting job and a three year commitment.

 

Hendry would have to go back on his word to make that happen. DeRosa came to start at 2B. It's not as simple as just making a decision based on numbers. Hendry would kill his relations with DeRosa, DeRosa's agent, and harm his image with future potential FAs.

 

I wouldn't have locked in on DeRosa with Giles on the market (which was rumored at the beginning of the offseason).

 

Unfortunately the decision has been made. There is no going back.

[VanceJergins]

With DeRosa's ability to play all over the field, there shouldn't be a reason not to pursue Giles.

 

Other than the reason DeRosa came to Chicago was to start at 2B.

 

When a 28-year-old .285/.361/.448 career good defensive second baseman comes on the market, you make sure you revise any plans you may once have had for Mark DeRosa-types. Alternatively, you could do yourself a favour and have made better plans for Mark DeRosa-types in the first place, plans not involving a starting job and a three year commitment.

 

Hendry would have to go back on his word to make that happen. DeRosa came to start at 2B. It's not as simple as just making a decision based on numbers. Hendry would kill his relations with DeRosa, DeRosa's agent, and harm his image with future potential FAs.

 

I wouldn't have locked in on DeRosa with Giles on the market (which was rumored at the beginning of the offseason).

 

Unfortunately the decision has been made. There is no going back.

 

Maybe if Hendry sat down with him and said, "Hey...listen....Giles is better than you...but you're better than Izturis....how's SS sound?", it would all work out.

[RichHillIsABeast]

With DeRosa's ability to play all over the field, there shouldn't be a reason not to pursue Giles.

 

Other than the reason DeRosa came to Chicago was to start at 2B.

 

When a 28-year-old .285/.361/.448 career good defensive second baseman comes on the market, you make sure you revise any plans you may once have had for Mark DeRosa-types. Alternatively, you could do yourself a favour and have made better plans for Mark DeRosa-types in the first place, plans not involving a starting job and a three year commitment.

 

Hendry would have to go back on his word to make that happen. DeRosa came to start at 2B. It's not as simple as just making a decision based on numbers. Hendry would kill his relations with DeRosa, DeRosa's agent, and harm his image with future potential FAs.

 

I wouldn't have locked in on DeRosa with Giles on the market (which was rumored at the beginning of the offseason).

 

Unfortunately the decision has been made. There is no going back.

 

Maybe if Hendry sat down with him and said, "Hey...listen....Giles is better than you...but you're better than Izturis....how's SS sound?", it would all work out.

 

I don't see DeRosa as being able to handle SS for a full season. As a substitute like he was in the past? Sure. His defense wouldn't cost you that many runs. As a fulltime starter he's going to let a lot of balls by him as his range is nothing great. We may have a flyball staff for the most part, but he's still going to cost us a very significant amount of runs compared to Izturis. Will DeRosa make up for it offensively? I think he will, but if he doesn't we're in a world of hurt.

[davearm]

With DeRosa's ability to play all over the field, there shouldn't be a reason not to pursue Giles.

 

Other than the reason DeRosa came to Chicago was to start at 2B.

 

When a 28-year-old .285/.361/.448 career good defensive second baseman comes on the market, you make sure you revise any plans you may once have had for Mark DeRosa-types. Alternatively, you could do yourself a favour and have made better plans for Mark DeRosa-types in the first place, plans not involving a starting job and a three year commitment.

 

Hendry would have to go back on his word to make that happen. DeRosa came to start at 2B. It's not as simple as just making a decision based on numbers. Hendry would kill his relations with DeRosa, DeRosa's agent, and harm his image with future potential FAs.

 

I wouldn't have locked in on DeRosa with Giles on the market (which was rumored at the beginning of the offseason).

 

Unfortunately the decision has been made. There is no going back.

I guess it really depends on how strong a commitment Hendry made to DeRosa.

 

I agree with you that if, during the recruitment process, Hendry told DeRosa he'd get the first crack at the everyday 2B job, then he won't renege on that by signing Giles.

 

However if he left things with DeRosa somewhat open-ended -- like he seems to have regarding Soriano's position -- and emphasized how much they like DeRosa's IF/OF versatility, then maybe there's a chance.

 

I mean, I can't see DeRosa being guaranteed the 2B job indefinitely, seeing as the Cubs have EPat waiting in the wings. There has to be some understanding there that DeRosa's going to be moved around quite a bit over the next 3 years.

[circlecitycub]

With DeRosa's ability to play all over the field, there shouldn't be a reason not to pursue Giles.

 

Other than the reason DeRosa came to Chicago was to start at 2B.

 

We're not getting Giles. I really, really want us to. He was my pick for 2B at the start of the offseason. It's not going to happen. :(

 

Didn't Walker come to the Cubs to be their starting 2nd baseman? That didn't seem to stop them from acquiring others and playing them there as well. Giles is far better than Hairston and Neifi. I think this one should be a no brainer for Hendry.

[CubFanPhilly]

C Barrett

1B Lee

2B Giles

3B Ramirez

SS Izturis

LF Murton

CF Soriano

RF Jones/DeRosa

 

I like it, but one change:

SS DeRosa/Theriot/Izturis

 

1) Mark DeRosa is a 31-year-old career .260/.316/.366 hitter of right-handers, and on account of that absolutely should not even be considered for a full-time job

2) Mark DeRosa is has spent just 175 innings (or 20 full games) at shortstop over the last three years, and it's for good reasons

 

Fair enough. But I wasn't advocating an everyday job for DeRosa. He gets the starts against LHers in RF, and roughly a third of the starts at shortstop until the question of who among DeRosa, Theriot, and Izturis is the best compromise of offense and defense is settled.

 

btw- I think it's Theriot. He may hit for .150 higher OPS than Izturis while playing near-average defense at SS.

 

If Hendry promised DeRosa the everyday job at 2B he's a fool. Sure DeRosa probably expects first crack at it, but if Giles is signed, tough. DeRosa would still get 350-400 ABs and his paycheck. Let him demand a trade if he can't live with that.

[BigbadB]

Didn't Walker come to the Cubs to be their starting 2nd baseman? That didn't seem to stop them from acquiring others and playing them there as well. Giles is far better than Hairston and Neifi. I think this one should be a no brainer for Hendry.

 

That's not what I recall. I seem to recall Walker gave up opportunities for a guaranteed starting 2b job for other teams in order to join the Cubs, even though Grudz was already on the team.

 

Looking at baseball-reference transactions, Grudz was re-signed December 7th and Walker was signed January 6th.

[Soul]

Please forget about any notions of DeRosa and just sign Giles, Jim.

 

Thanks. Call me if you have any further questions.

[soapy]

Didn't Walker come to the Cubs to be their starting 2nd baseman? That didn't seem to stop them from acquiring others and playing them there as well. Giles is far better than Hairston and Neifi. I think this one should be a no brainer for Hendry.

 

That's not what I recall. I seem to recall Walker gave up opportunities for a guaranteed starting 2b job for other teams in order to join the Cubs, even though Grudz was already on the team.

 

Looking at baseball-reference transactions, Grudz was re-signed December 7th and Walker was signed January 6th.

The way I remember it, when Walker signed it was billed as being a utility type player. I seem to remember 2B, LF and 1B all being mentioned. Of course, that's not really how things worked out (until he played 1B in 2006).

[Backtobanks]

Please forget about any notions of DeRosa and just sign Giles, Jim.

 

Thanks. Call me if you have any further questions.

 

Let's not forget that this is the Cubs. We need to have a depth chart of at least 3 deep at each position because of injuries. Seriously, I agree....sign Giles and use Derosa as a platoon with Jones and supersub/pinch hitter.

[Guest]

Other potential explanations why Giles had an off year:

 

1) He's been injury-prone for a long time. Is the accumulation of those injuries catching up to him and sapping his bat speed / power? If so, this would be bad news for his future capabilities.

 

2) He's the anti-Soriano when it comes to leadoff. Atl had Giles lead off for much of the first half. He did as he was asked, but has said in the past that he's uncomfortable in that role. His improved second half numbers may attest to this being part of the cause.

 

3) Back to the injuries, he could have been playing through something that simply wasn't publicized. This could be good or bad for the future.

[Bruce Miles]

Please forget about any notions of DeRosa and just sign Giles, Jim.

 

Thanks. Call me if you have any further questions.

 

As I pointed out on another thread, Giles will not be coming here if the Braves non-tender him. At three years and $13 million, I think the Cubs are pretty well committed to DeRosa.

[Vinestal]

Please forget about any notions of DeRosa and just sign Giles, Jim.

 

Thanks. Call me if you have any further questions.

 

As I pointed out on another thread, Giles will not be coming here if the Braves non-tender him. At three years and $13 million, I think the Cubs are pretty well committed to DeRosa.

 

I think people are going to be happy with DeRosa. If you really want to get behind replacing someone replace Izturis!

[sherwood921]

Please forget about any notions of DeRosa and just sign Giles, Jim.

 

Thanks. Call me if you have any further questions.

 

As I pointed out on another thread, Giles will not be coming here if the Braves non-tender him. At three years and $13 million, I think the Cubs are pretty well committed to DeRosa.

 

Figures. Are there any potential non-tenders that you think the Cubs might have any interest in?

[goonys evil twin]

Please forget about any notions of DeRosa and just sign Giles, Jim.

 

Thanks. Call me if you have any further questions.

 

As I pointed out on another thread, Giles will not be coming here if the Braves non-tender him. At three years and $13 million, I think the Cubs are pretty well committed to DeRosa.

 

I think people are going to be happy with DeRosa. If you really want to get behind replacing someone replace Izturis!

 

At this point, it's probably not realistic to think they will upgrade either spot.

[Bruce Miles]

Please forget about any notions of DeRosa and just sign Giles, Jim.

 

Thanks. Call me if you have any further questions.

 

As I pointed out on another thread, Giles will not be coming here if the Braves non-tender him. At three years and $13 million, I think the Cubs are pretty well committed to DeRosa.

 

Figures. Are there any potential non-tenders that you think the Cubs might have any interest in?

 

Probably, but it's hard to tell right now. You might hear of some "name" players being non-tendered and then tomorrow, they'll re-sign with their clubs on pre-arranged deals. The Cubs actually non-tendered Barrett after they traded for him.