Alex Gonzalez 3/15?

[jmajew]

Alex Gonzalez of the Boston Red Sox formerly of the the Marlins is rumored to be (per rotoworld):

 

Free agent Alex Gonzalez reportedly has a three-year, $15 million offer on the table, likely from either the White Sox or the Reds.

 

The Blue Jays have also been talking to Gonzalez, but they didn't make the offer. If Gonzalez can get this kind of deal, Julio Lugo at four years and $32 million would look very attractive.

 

Now this brings up the question who is better Izturis or Gonzalez?

[Soriano12]

Now this brings up the question who is better Izturis or Gonzalez?

 

Nothing like picking the tallest midget.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Now this brings up the question who is better Izturis or Gonzalez?

 

I'll take "or".

[Post Count Padder]

I guess this shows JH isn't the only one who likes players who can drive in runs with their glove.

 

Seriously, compared to what Gonzalez is about to get, DeRosa was a slightly better bargain.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Maybe we can trade Izturis to whoever misses out on Gonzalez.

[hrowengartner]

The Red Sox need a SS

[Guest]

I guess this shows JH isn't the only one who likes players who can drive in runs with their glove.

 

Seriously, compared to what Gonzalez is about to get, DeRosa was a slightly better bargain.

 

how do you know JH isn't the one making the offer?

[rocket]

i hope the reds aren't that dumb

[nilodnayr]

Sadly, still izturis...

 

Izturis last three years OPS+

61

88 (Izturis' "MVP" season)

68

56

 

 

Gonzalez last four years OPS+

100

79

85

77

 

Izturis is three years younger, but has recent injury concerns. Izturis is making 4.15M this year with 5.45M option and 300K buy out. So basically whatever team has that offer on the table is saying we want a healthy Izturis with a better bat, and we don't have to give up any players for him and we want to pay him just about the same as Izturis...this doesn't inspire a ton of confidence in me that Izturis can be moved or that giving up Maddux and 2M for him was worth it. I agree with you all, its better than hearing Alex Gonzalez can't find a starting job, but when you take everything into consideration, its still not much to be optimistic about. Maybe we can trade him for David Aardsma :)

[VanceJergins]

Sadly, still izturis...

 

Izturis last three years OPS+

61

88 (Izturis' "MVP" season)

68

56

 

 

Gonzalez last four years OPS+

100

79

85

77

 

Izturis is three years younger, but has recent injury concerns. Izturis is making 4.15M this year with 5.45M option and 300K buy out. So basically whatever team has that offer on the table is saying we want a healthy Izturis with a better bat, and we don't have to give up any players for him and we want to pay him just about the same as Izturis...this doesn't inspire a ton of confidence in me that Izturis can be moved or that giving up Maddux and 2M for him was worth it. I agree with you all, its better than hearing Alex Gonzalez can't find a starting job, but when you take everything into consideration, its still not much to be optimistic about. Maybe we can trade him for David Aardsma :)

 

I would make that trade in a heartbeat.

[jjgman21]

Sadly, still izturis...

 

Izturis last three years OPS+

61

88 (Izturis' "MVP" season)

68

56

 

 

Gonzalez last four years OPS+

100

79

85

77

 

Izturis is three years younger, but has recent injury concerns. Izturis is making 4.15M this year with 5.45M option and 300K buy out. So basically whatever team has that offer on the table is saying we want a healthy Izturis with a better bat, and we don't have to give up any players for him and we want to pay him just about the same as Izturis...this doesn't inspire a ton of confidence in me that Izturis can be moved or that giving up Maddux and 2M for him was worth it. I agree with you all, its better than hearing Alex Gonzalez can't find a starting job, but when you take everything into consideration, its still not much to be optimistic about. Maybe we can trade him for David Aardsma :)

 

it does inspire some confidence though. it's simple supply and demand. before this signing we had no idea whether there was a market for shortstops or not or that the market would bare dumping 15M on a crappy, no hit shortstop.

 

I think your assumption that the team is saying they want a healthy Izturis with a better bat is rather illogical. just as likely a team is saying 'we need a shortstop, sign whatever there is right now.'

 

IMO, this is reason for optimism, only tempered by Hendry's apparent man-love for Izturis.

[nilodnayr]

Sadly, still izturis...

 

Izturis last three years OPS+

61

88 (Izturis' "MVP" season)

68

56

 

 

Gonzalez last four years OPS+

100

79

85

77

 

Izturis is three years younger, but has recent injury concerns. Izturis is making 4.15M this year with 5.45M option and 300K buy out. So basically whatever team has that offer on the table is saying we want a healthy Izturis with a better bat, and we don't have to give up any players for him and we want to pay him just about the same as Izturis...this doesn't inspire a ton of confidence in me that Izturis can be moved or that giving up Maddux and 2M for him was worth it. I agree with you all, its better than hearing Alex Gonzalez can't find a starting job, but when you take everything into consideration, its still not much to be optimistic about. Maybe we can trade him for David Aardsma :)

 

it does inspire some confidence though. it's simple supply and demand. before this signing we had no idea whether there was a market for shortstops or not or that the market would bare dumping 15M on a crappy, no hit shortstop.

 

I think your assumption that the team is saying they want a healthy Izturis with a better bat is rather illogical. just as likely a team is saying 'we need a shortstop, sign whatever there is right now.'

 

IMO, this is reason for optimism, only tempered by Hendry's apparent man-love for Izturis.

 

No, I'm not making any assumptions. I'm saying the team wants Alex Gonzalez, who is " a healthy Izturis with a better bat". And given the fact that their (rumored) salaries are simliar (albeit Izturis' contract is a year or two shorter), and the team signing Gonzalez wouldn't have to give up any players in a trade, he doesnt have any market value. Therefore, at best we could (literally) trade Izturis for a bucket of balls. Which I guess is cause for optimism, considering I and many others didn't even think that was possible.

[jjgman21]

 

No, I'm not making any assumptions. I'm saying the team wants Alex Gonzalez, who is " a healthy Izturis with a better bat". And given the fact that their (rumored) salaries are simliar (albeit Izturis' contract is a year or two shorter), and the team signing Gonzalez wouldn't have to give up any players in a trade, he doesnt have any market value. Therefore, at best we could (literally) trade Izturis for a bucket of balls. Which I guess is cause for optimism, considering I and many others didn't even think that was possible.

 

what you say you said is not what you said. perhaps its what you meant, but it's not what you said. your explanation is also illogical. whether or not he has value does not follow from your given facts. therefore, your ultimate conclusion does not follow either.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

I'll take "or".

 

He does seem to be the concensus.

 

Who would offer really offer Gonzalez that kind of contract?

[nilodnayr]

 

No, I'm not making any assumptions. I'm saying the team wants Alex Gonzalez, who is " a healthy Izturis with a better bat". And given the fact that their (rumored) salaries are simliar (albeit Izturis' contract is a year or two shorter), and the team signing Gonzalez wouldn't have to give up any players in a trade, he doesnt have any market value. Therefore, at best we could (literally) trade Izturis for a bucket of balls. Which I guess is cause for optimism, considering I and many others didn't even think that was possible.

 

what you say you said is not what you said. perhaps its what you meant, but it's not what you said. your explanation is also illogical. whether or not he has value does not follow from your given facts. therefore, your ultimate conclusion does not follow either.

 

The whole point of this thread is to comapre the two and assess Izturis' market value. In the first part of my post I show that AGonz = a healthy and better hitting Izturis. Then yeah, I am saying that if A=B and some team wants A, then they would want B. However, if they do not have to give up any players in return for A, then they would not want to give up any players in return for B. Leading to the statement that we may be able to trade Izturis for a bucket of balls. What dont you understand? What I don't understand is why you think the explanation is illogical. Do you disagree with the OPS+ comparison? Or that Izturis has injury history? I'm really confused. Help me out.

[nilodnayr]

I'll take "or".

 

He does seem to be the concensus.

 

Who would offer really offer Gonzalez that kind of contract?

 

Probably the same guy who traded Maddux and 2M for Izturis. How we ended up with Nomar instead of AGon in that 4 team trade, I will never know. Hendry has been giving props to AGon ever since he became GM.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Different Alex Gonzalez

[nilodnayr]

Different Alex Gonzalez

 

No, same Alex Gonzalez...I have been talking about the expo/marlin/bosox one. If you remember, Hendry has wanted him since when he was on the marlins. Leading up to the trade deadline he had talked about acquiring him from the expos many times. Yet somehow he wound up in boston and we got nomar. Not that it worked out the way it should have, but it was still a great trade.

[Post Count Padder]

Different Alex Gonzalez

 

No, same Alex Gonzalez...I have been talking about the expo/marlin/bosox one. If you remember, Hendry has wanted him since when he was on the marlins. Leading up to the trade deadline he had talked about acquiring him from the expos many times. Yet somehow he wound up in boston and we got nomar. Not that it worked out the way it should have, but it was still a great trade.

The Alex Gonzalez this thread is about never played for the Expos. He played only for the Marlins and then the Red Sox. In that trade, we traded our Alex Gonzalez to the Expos. The guy you are probably getting confused with is Orlando Cabrera, who went from the Expos to the Red Sox in that trade. Most Cubs fans thought Hendry would nab Cabrera, not Nomar.

[nilodnayr]

Different Alex Gonzalez

 

No, same Alex Gonzalez...I have been talking about the expo/marlin/bosox one. If you remember, Hendry has wanted him since when he was on the marlins. Leading up to the trade deadline he had talked about acquiring him from the expos many times. Yet somehow he wound up in boston and we got nomar. Not that it worked out the way it should have, but it was still a great trade.

The Alex Gonzalez this thread is about never played for the Expos. He played only for the Marlins and then the Red Sox. In that trade, we traded our Alex Gonzalez to the Expos. The guy you are probably getting confused with is Orlando Cabrera, who went from the Expos to the Red Sox in that trade. Most Cubs fans thought Hendry would nab Cabrera, not Nomar.

 

Ok, yeah thats the sign its getting late and I should go to sleep because I have to wake up for a flight in 4 hours...I was thinking of OCab. Damn you RedSox for acquiring crappy shortstops that confuse me. You can make it up by taking Izturis off our hands!!! And we'll only take a half of a bucket of balls in return!