College Football - Week of 11/4

[cubweiser03]

If people are so sure that if Louisville goes undefeated they should be in the BCS game and im not going to argue that, why is that if Rutgers goes undefeated its not so automatic? Whattsup with that? Is it because they are Rutgers and a perenial sucky program? Thats so silly. The only difference in Louisville's schedule and Rutgers is UL beat Miami. So now beating Miami is the be all end all of determining the birth to the title game for a Big East undefeated champion.

[CuseCubFan69]

Let me ask you this. What happens if Rutgers beats Louisville, WV beats Rutgers. What makes Florida or the winner of the SEC, winner of the Big 12, or the winner of the Pac 10, or Notre Dame if they run the table automatically better than a 1 loss BE team? The Big East team HAS to go undefeated to go while other conferences can have a loss.

 

Because of the preconceived notion that the Big East is weak and the SEC is strong, no matter what the teams in the Big East are proving otherwise.

 

It's like the stupid preseason polls during the season. I'm not saying the Big East is the best but it's just as good as any major conference. I was listening to Mike and Mike and they were saying since Miami and the others left everyone assumes the conference is weak and they just brush it off. It's like we have to wait for 4 to 5 years for them to prove they belong while IMO they already have. This conference has 2 losing teams out of 8 or 75% of the teams in it. No other conference can say that.

 

That's partially because the BE plays less conference games though. For example, the SEC has 8 of the 12 teams with a winning record. Most teams in the SEC have played 5-6 conference games already, while the BE has played 3-4. Two of the SEC teams, Kentucky and Vanderbilt, if they had only played 3-4 conference games so far, they would also be over .500, which would put the SEC at 10 of 12 teams over .500. As teams play their conference season, it becomes harder and harder for a large percentage of the conference to stay above .500-because if teams at the top are staying close to undefeated, then teams have to be losing to them and hurting their records.

 

The BE certainly is not weak. It's just very much an unknown quanity right now, and the bowl games will be a good indicator where the BE is this year.

 

If Cincy played bad teams instead of Ohio State and VTech they'd be 7-2. and if Syracuse played bad teams instead of Iowa and Wake Forrest they'd be 5-4. There are no gimme's like Mississippi St or Mississippi are this year. The SEC is good no doubt but it isn't the God people make it out to be.

 

The bowls hurt the BE if they are the same as last year. If a 2nd BE team doesn't go to the BCS they go to the Liberty Bowl and play an inferior team which once again people will say they didn't play a tough enough team. If we win it's because we should have and if we lose we are over rated.

[CuseCubFan69]

Let me ask you this. What happens if Rutgers beats Louisville, WV beats Rutgers. What makes Florida or the winner of the SEC, winner of the Big 12, or the winner of the Pac 10, or Notre Dame if they run the table automatically better than a 1 loss BE team? The Big East team HAS to go undefeated to go while other conferences can have a loss.

 

That's because the Big East sucks as a football conference.

 

If Penn State were in it they'd be the strongest team in it. Why, because they'd be on the bottom holding all the other teams up in the standings!

 

Yeah I bet. It'd be really tough to run the gauntlet like Rutgers, Pitt and West Virginia have done this year.

 

Let me know when your team crosses the 50 yard line so we can celebrate.

 

3 losses - @Notre Dame, @Ohio State, home versus Michigan. How many Big East teams don't have three losses if they play all three of those games?

 

Why is Penn State so scared to played Pitt in a home and home? You guys want a 2 at your place and one at Pitt. They are natural rivals but yet Joe doesn't want any part of it.

[Chocolate Milk]

I wasn't impressed with either team last night.

[Andy]

Likely 4 at-large teams:

 

- Notre Dame, unless they play really badly against USC and fall out of the BCS top 12 - will be 11-1 or 10-2

- Whoever loses the Michigan/Ohio State game - will be 11-1

- whoever loses the SEC title game unless it's Arkansas (would be a shame because the Razorbacks are as good as most any 1-loss team right now)

- Boise State

 

West Virginia could replace Notre Dame if ND looks bad against USC. Or they'd be the first in line to replace Boise State.

 

Arkansas would likely fall short of the BCS requirements if they lost the SEC title game, which could open the door for Auburn or Tennessee even though neither team is likely to make it to the SEC title game.

[CubColtPacer]

Let me ask you this. What happens if Rutgers beats Louisville, WV beats Rutgers. What makes Florida or the winner of the SEC, winner of the Big 12, or the winner of the Pac 10, or Notre Dame if they run the table automatically better than a 1 loss BE team? The Big East team HAS to go undefeated to go while other conferences can have a loss.

 

Because of the preconceived notion that the Big East is weak and the SEC is strong, no matter what the teams in the Big East are proving otherwise.

 

It's like the stupid preseason polls during the season. I'm not saying the Big East is the best but it's just as good as any major conference. I was listening to Mike and Mike and they were saying since Miami and the others left everyone assumes the conference is weak and they just brush it off. It's like we have to wait for 4 to 5 years for them to prove they belong while IMO they already have. This conference has 2 losing teams out of 8 or 75% of the teams in it. No other conference can say that.

 

That's partially because the BE plays less conference games though. For example, the SEC has 8 of the 12 teams with a winning record. Most teams in the SEC have played 5-6 conference games already, while the BE has played 3-4. Two of the SEC teams, Kentucky and Vanderbilt, if they had only played 3-4 conference games so far, they would also be over .500, which would put the SEC at 10 of 12 teams over .500. As teams play their conference season, it becomes harder and harder for a large percentage of the conference to stay above .500-because if teams at the top are staying close to undefeated, then teams have to be losing to them and hurting their records.

 

The BE certainly is not weak. It's just very much an unknown quanity right now, and the bowl games will be a good indicator where the BE is this year.

 

If Cincy played bad teams instead of Ohio State and VTech they'd be 7-2. and if Syracuse played bad teams instead of Iowa and Wake Forrest they'd be 5-4. There are no gimme's like Mississippi St or Mississippi are this year. The SEC is good no doubt but it isn't the God people make it out to be.

 

The bowls hurt the BE if they are the same as last year. If a 2nd BE team doesn't go to the BCS they go to the Liberty Bowl and play an inferior team which once again people will say they didn't play a tough enough team. If we win it's because we should have and if we lose we are over rated.

 

Well, you could make the same argument for teams like Mississippi and to a lesser extent Mississippi State. Mississippi lost to Missouri and Wake Forest outside of conference, and Miss State lost to Tulane and WV. The only bad team of those 4 is Tulane, and if they had played less conference and good teams and more bad teams, those 2 teams would probably have a good record as well.

[CubColtPacer]

Likely 4 at-large teams:

 

- Notre Dame, unless they play really badly against USC and fall out of the BCS top 12 - will be 11-1 or 10-2

- Whoever loses the Michigan/Ohio State game - will be 11-1

- whoever loses the SEC title game unless it's Arkansas (would be a shame because the Razorbacks are as good as most any 1-loss team right now)

- Boise State

 

West Virginia could replace Notre Dame if ND looks bad against USC. Or they'd be the first in line to replace Boise State.

 

Arkansas would likely fall short of the BCS requirements if they lost the SEC title game, which could open the door for Auburn or Tennessee even though neither team is likely to make it to the SEC title game.

 

By the way ND, with the new BCS bowl this year, it only takes top 14 to be eligible, so ND would have to fall out of the top 14 now to not go, not top 12. They have to make top 8 now to automatically qualify now, not top 6 anymore.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

If Cincy played bad teams instead of Ohio State and VTech they'd be 7-2. and if Syracuse played bad teams instead of Iowa and Wake Forrest they'd be 5-4. There are no gimme's like Mississippi St or Mississippi are this year. The SEC is good no doubt but it isn't the God people make it out to be.

 

Record of Cincy's wins: 15-27

 

Their only win over a team that isn't at least 2 games under .500 is conference opponent South Florida(who has yet to beat anybody above .500, 4-4 McNeese St. being the closest), who lost to one of the worst teams in the Big 12, Kansas.

[CuseCubFan69]

Likely 4 at-large teams:

 

- Notre Dame, unless they play really badly against USC and fall out of the BCS top 12 - will be 11-1 or 10-2

- Whoever loses the Michigan/Ohio State game - will be 11-1

- whoever loses the SEC title game unless it's Arkansas (would be a shame because the Razorbacks are as good as most any 1-loss team right now)

- Boise State

 

West Virginia could replace Notre Dame if ND looks bad against USC. Or they'd be the first in line to replace Boise State.

 

Arkansas would likely fall short of the BCS requirements if they lost the SEC title game, which could open the door for Auburn or Tennessee even though neither team is likely to make it to the SEC title game.

 

Arkansas has to play S. Carolina, Tenn, Miss St and LSU. If they win all those games and go 11-1 and then lose in the championship to Florida they deserve to go over Auburn, LSU, or Tenn IMO. They won't like you said but they would deserve to.

[CuseCubFan69]

If Cincy played bad teams instead of Ohio State and VTech they'd be 7-2. and if Syracuse played bad teams instead of Iowa and Wake Forrest they'd be 5-4. There are no gimme's like Mississippi St or Mississippi are this year. The SEC is good no doubt but it isn't the God people make it out to be.

 

Record of Cincy's wins: 15-27

 

Their only win over a team that isn't at least 2 games under .500 is conference opponent South Florida(who has yet to beat anybody above .500, 4-4 McNeese St. being the closest), who lost to one of the worst teams in the Big 12, Kansas.

 

But they beat S Florida easily so what's your point?

[CubColtPacer]

Likely 4 at-large teams:

 

- Notre Dame, unless they play really badly against USC and fall out of the BCS top 12 - will be 11-1 or 10-2

- Whoever loses the Michigan/Ohio State game - will be 11-1

- whoever loses the SEC title game unless it's Arkansas (would be a shame because the Razorbacks are as good as most any 1-loss team right now)

- Boise State

 

West Virginia could replace Notre Dame if ND looks bad against USC. Or they'd be the first in line to replace Boise State.

 

Arkansas would likely fall short of the BCS requirements if they lost the SEC title game, which could open the door for Auburn or Tennessee even though neither team is likely to make it to the SEC title game.

 

Arkansas has to play S. Carolina, Tenn, Miss St and LSU. If they win all those games and go 11-1 and then lose in the championship to Florida they deserve to go over Auburn, LSU, or Tenn IMO. They won't like you said but they would deserve to.

 

I don't think they would deserve to go over Auburn in that case.

Florida beat Arkansas

Arkansas beat Auburn

Auburn beat Florida

 

It would be one of those triangles in that case. The difference between Auburn and Arkansas at that point would be that Auburn would only have 1 loss, while Arkansas would have 2. It would be close, but I think a 1 loss team with a similar schedule would have to take precedence, even with the head to head.

Edited November 3, 2006 by CubColtPacer

[CuseCubFan69]

Likely 4 at-large teams:

 

- Notre Dame, unless they play really badly against USC and fall out of the BCS top 12 - will be 11-1 or 10-2

- Whoever loses the Michigan/Ohio State game - will be 11-1

- whoever loses the SEC title game unless it's Arkansas (would be a shame because the Razorbacks are as good as most any 1-loss team right now)

- Boise State

 

West Virginia could replace Notre Dame if ND looks bad against USC. Or they'd be the first in line to replace Boise State.

 

Arkansas would likely fall short of the BCS requirements if they lost the SEC title game, which could open the door for Auburn or Tennessee even though neither team is likely to make it to the SEC title game.

 

Arkansas has to play S. Carolina, Tenn, Miss St and LSU. If they win all those games and go 11-1 and then lose in the championship to Florida they deserve to go over Auburn, LSU, or Tenn IMO. They won't like you said but they would deserve to.

 

I don't think they would deserve to go over Auburn in that case.

Florida beat Arkansas

Arkansas beat Auburn

Auburn beat Arkansas

 

It would be one of those triangles in that case. The difference between Auburn and Arkansas at that point would be that Auburn would only have 1 loss, while Arkansas would have 2. It would be close, but I think a 1 loss team with a similar schedule would have to take precedence, even with the head to head.

 

When did Auburn beat Arkansas unless you have them playing in the SEC Championship Game which I would agree with you.

[Derwood]

Likely 4 at-large teams:

 

- Notre Dame, unless they play really badly against USC and fall out of the BCS top 12 - will be 11-1 or 10-2

- Whoever loses the Michigan/Ohio State game - will be 11-1

- whoever loses the SEC title game unless it's Arkansas (would be a shame because the Razorbacks are as good as most any 1-loss team right now)

- Boise State

 

West Virginia could replace Notre Dame if ND looks bad against USC. Or they'd be the first in line to replace Boise State.

 

Arkansas would likely fall short of the BCS requirements if they lost the SEC title game, which could open the door for Auburn or Tennessee even though neither team is likely to make it to the SEC title game.

 

Arkansas has to play S. Carolina, Tenn, Miss St and LSU. If they win all those games and go 11-1 and then lose in the championship to Florida they deserve to go over Auburn, LSU, or Tenn IMO. They won't like you said but they would deserve to.

 

I don't think they would deserve to go over Auburn in that case.

Florida beat Arkansas

Arkansas beat Auburn

Auburn beat Arkansas

 

It would be one of those triangles in that case. The difference between Auburn and Arkansas at that point would be that Auburn would only have 1 loss, while Arkansas would have 2. It would be close, but I think a 1 loss team with a similar schedule would have to take precedence, even with the head to head.

 

When did Auburn beat Arkansas unless you have them playing in the SEC Championship Game which I would agree with you.

 

Can Auburn play Arkansas in the SEC title game? Are they in the same division?

 

EDIT: No, Auburn and Arkansas are in the same division, so they can't play in the SEC title game.

Edited November 3, 2006 by Derwood

[CuseCubFan69]

Likely 4 at-large teams:

 

- Notre Dame, unless they play really badly against USC and fall out of the BCS top 12 - will be 11-1 or 10-2

- Whoever loses the Michigan/Ohio State game - will be 11-1

- whoever loses the SEC title game unless it's Arkansas (would be a shame because the Razorbacks are as good as most any 1-loss team right now)

- Boise State

 

West Virginia could replace Notre Dame if ND looks bad against USC. Or they'd be the first in line to replace Boise State.

 

Arkansas would likely fall short of the BCS requirements if they lost the SEC title game, which could open the door for Auburn or Tennessee even though neither team is likely to make it to the SEC title game.

 

Arkansas has to play S. Carolina, Tenn, Miss St and LSU. If they win all those games and go 11-1 and then lose in the championship to Florida they deserve to go over Auburn, LSU, or Tenn IMO. They won't like you said but they would deserve to.

 

I don't think they would deserve to go over Auburn in that case.

Florida beat Arkansas

Arkansas beat Auburn

Auburn beat Arkansas

 

It would be one of those triangles in that case. The difference between Auburn and Arkansas at that point would be that Auburn would only have 1 loss, while Arkansas would have 2. It would be close, but I think a 1 loss team with a similar schedule would have to take precedence, even with the head to head.

 

When did Auburn beat Arkansas unless you have them playing in the SEC Championship Game which I would agree with you.

 

Can Auburn play Arkansas in the SEC title game? Are they in the same division?

 

I don't know.

[CubColtPacer]

Likely 4 at-large teams:

 

- Notre Dame, unless they play really badly against USC and fall out of the BCS top 12 - will be 11-1 or 10-2

- Whoever loses the Michigan/Ohio State game - will be 11-1

- whoever loses the SEC title game unless it's Arkansas (would be a shame because the Razorbacks are as good as most any 1-loss team right now)

- Boise State

 

West Virginia could replace Notre Dame if ND looks bad against USC. Or they'd be the first in line to replace Boise State.

 

Arkansas would likely fall short of the BCS requirements if they lost the SEC title game, which could open the door for Auburn or Tennessee even though neither team is likely to make it to the SEC title game.

 

Arkansas has to play S. Carolina, Tenn, Miss St and LSU. If they win all those games and go 11-1 and then lose in the championship to Florida they deserve to go over Auburn, LSU, or Tenn IMO. They won't like you said but they would deserve to.

 

I don't think they would deserve to go over Auburn in that case.

Florida beat Arkansas

Arkansas beat Auburn

Auburn beat Arkansas

 

It would be one of those triangles in that case. The difference between Auburn and Arkansas at that point would be that Auburn would only have 1 loss, while Arkansas would have 2. It would be close, but I think a 1 loss team with a similar schedule would have to take precedence, even with the head to head.

 

When did Auburn beat Arkansas unless you have them playing in the SEC Championship Game which I would agree with you.

 

I meant Auburn beat Florida. I have changed it. I don't see any way on how a 1 loss Auburn team could be passed over by a 2 loss Arkansas team. Would you think that a 2 loss Auburn team should be in over a 1 loss Florida team because they beat them?

[CubColtPacer]

Likely 4 at-large teams:

 

- Notre Dame, unless they play really badly against USC and fall out of the BCS top 12 - will be 11-1 or 10-2

- Whoever loses the Michigan/Ohio State game - will be 11-1

- whoever loses the SEC title game unless it's Arkansas (would be a shame because the Razorbacks are as good as most any 1-loss team right now)

- Boise State

 

West Virginia could replace Notre Dame if ND looks bad against USC. Or they'd be the first in line to replace Boise State.

 

Arkansas would likely fall short of the BCS requirements if they lost the SEC title game, which could open the door for Auburn or Tennessee even though neither team is likely to make it to the SEC title game.

 

Arkansas has to play S. Carolina, Tenn, Miss St and LSU. If they win all those games and go 11-1 and then lose in the championship to Florida they deserve to go over Auburn, LSU, or Tenn IMO. They won't like you said but they would deserve to.

 

I don't think they would deserve to go over Auburn in that case.

Florida beat Arkansas

Arkansas beat Auburn

Auburn beat Arkansas

 

It would be one of those triangles in that case. The difference between Auburn and Arkansas at that point would be that Auburn would only have 1 loss, while Arkansas would have 2. It would be close, but I think a 1 loss team with a similar schedule would have to take precedence, even with the head to head.

 

When did Auburn beat Arkansas unless you have them playing in the SEC Championship Game which I would agree with you.

 

Can Auburn play Arkansas in the SEC title game? Are they in the same division?

 

They are. Arkansas or Auburn will represent the West, and Florida will likely represent the East, with Tennessee having a chance if Florida stumbles.

[Derwood]

The difference between a 1-loss Arkansas team vs. a 1-loss other SEC team would be is that Arkansas would be undefeated in the SEC (the 1 loss coming to USC) while the others would have a conference loss.

[CubColtPacer]

The difference between a 1-loss Arkansas team vs. a 1-loss other SEC team would be is that Arkansas would be undefeated in the SEC (the 1 loss coming to USC) while the others would have a conference loss.

 

Agreed. What we were saying is if Arkansas and Auburn both win out, and then Arkansas loses to Florida in the SEC title game, who should go to a BCS bowl?

[Derwood]

The difference between a 1-loss Arkansas team vs. a 1-loss other SEC team would be is that Arkansas would be undefeated in the SEC (the 1 loss coming to USC) while the others would have a conference loss.

 

Agreed. What we were saying is if Arkansas and Auburn both win out, and then Arkansas loses to Florida in the SEC title game, who should go to a BCS bowl?

 

Rutgers :P

[TruffleShuffle]

If Cincy played bad teams instead of Ohio State and VTech they'd be 7-2. and if Syracuse played bad teams instead of Iowa and Wake Forrest they'd be 5-4. There are no gimme's like Mississippi St or Mississippi are this year. The SEC is good no doubt but it isn't the God people make it out to be.

 

Record of Cincy's wins: 15-27

 

Their only win over a team that isn't at least 2 games under .500 is conference opponent South Florida(who has yet to beat anybody above .500, 4-4 McNeese St. being the closest), who lost to one of the worst teams in the Big 12, Kansas.

 

But they beat S Florida easily so what's your point?

 

Even though you're considering these teams like Cincy, UConn, South Florida and Syracuse to not be "gimmes," they still haven't beaten any of the top 3 teams:

 

Pitt versus Louisville, WVU and Rutgers: 0-1

USF: 0-1

UConn: 0-2

Cincy: 0-1

Syr: 0-2

 

That's zero wins and seven losses against the top three teams in the conference. Until some of those teams start beating WV, UL and Rutgers, I have a hard time not considering them pushovers.

[CuseCubFan69]

If Cincy played bad teams instead of Ohio State and VTech they'd be 7-2. and if Syracuse played bad teams instead of Iowa and Wake Forrest they'd be 5-4. There are no gimme's like Mississippi St or Mississippi are this year. The SEC is good no doubt but it isn't the God people make it out to be.

 

Record of Cincy's wins: 15-27

 

Their only win over a team that isn't at least 2 games under .500 is conference opponent South Florida(who has yet to beat anybody above .500, 4-4 McNeese St. being the closest), who lost to one of the worst teams in the Big 12, Kansas.

 

But they beat S Florida easily so what's your point?

 

Even though you're considering these teams like Cincy, UConn, South Florida and Syracuse to not be "gimmes," they still haven't beaten any of the top 3 teams:

 

Pitt versus Louisville, WVU and Rutgers: 0-1

USF: 0-1

UConn: 0-2

Cincy: 0-1

Syr: 0-2

 

That's zero wins and seven losses against the top three teams in the conference. Until some of those teams start beating WV, UL and Rutgers, I have a hard time not considering them pushovers.

 

The same could be said of any conference. Has anyone beat Michigan, Ohio State or Wisconsin in the Big 10 yet?

 

In all honesty, I wish Penn State would come home back where they belong.

[cubweiser03]

How i see the BCS bowls shaping out according to the selection rules:

 

Rose Bowl= UM/OSU Vs Cal/USC

Since USC will not be in the title game the Pac 10 champ between Cal and USC are automatic here. Unless UM/OSU lose before they meet the Big Ten will have #1 team in the nation. The Rose Bowl will then have 1st selection of a replacement team before the other bowls select. Im 100% certain they will take OSU/UM to have the ol Big Ten/Pac Ten Rose Bowl. Big Ten/Pac Ten fans rejoice. We got the Rose Bowl back this year.

 

Sugar Bowl=Florida/WVU or ND.

Im assuming Louisville goes to the NCG. If Notre Dame loses to SC they will get passed over by WVU. WVU had a great game in the Sugar last year. If Florida goes to NCG its Louisville vs SEC (Auburn or Tenn).

 

Orange Bowl=ACC Champ(pick one)/Auburn or Tenn.

Even if Arkansas loses in the title game they will get passed over by these two programs. The ACC champ is not going to be a big draw so the Orange Bowl needs a big time program like UT or Auburn. Sorry Arkansas.

 

Fiesta Bowl-B12 Champ Texas V Boise State

Wow i cant wait.

[da bears]

I think its about time Missouri wins a big game. The thing I envy about Northwesterns program is that every now and then they'll pull a big upset. Now, winning in Lincoln probably wouldn't be a huge upset, but it still would be for Mizzou. It's time for them to take the next step. That being said, I bet Nebraska wins by 10.

[Derwood]

How i see the BCS bowls shaping out according to the selection rules:

 

Rose Bowl= UM/OSU Vs Cal/USC

Since USC will not be in the title game the Pac 10 champ between Cal and USC are automatic here. Unless UM/OSU lose before they meet the Big Ten will have #1 team in the nation. The Rose Bowl will then have 1st selection of a replacement team before the other bowls select. Im 100% certain they will take OSU/UM to have the ol Big Ten/Pac Ten Rose Bowl. Big Ten/Pac Ten fans rejoice. We got the Rose Bowl back this year.

 

Sugar Bowl=Florida/WVU or ND.

Im assuming Louisville goes to the NCG. If Notre Dame loses to SC they will get passed over by WVU. WVU had a great game in the Sugar last year. If Florida goes to NCG its Louisville vs SEC (Auburn or Tenn).

 

Orange Bowl=ACC Champ(pick one)/Auburn or Tenn.

Even if Arkansas loses in the title game they will get passed over by these two programs. The ACC champ is not going to be a big draw so the Orange Bowl needs a big time program like UT or Auburn. Sorry Arkansas.

 

Fiesta Bowl-B12 Champ Texas V Boise State

Wow i cant wait.

 

Wow, talk about 4 games that I could give a crap about

[Transmogrified Tiger]

If Cincy played bad teams instead of Ohio State and VTech they'd be 7-2. and if Syracuse played bad teams instead of Iowa and Wake Forrest they'd be 5-4. There are no gimme's like Mississippi St or Mississippi are this year. The SEC is good no doubt but it isn't the God people make it out to be.

 

Record of Cincy's wins: 15-27

 

Their only win over a team that isn't at least 2 games under .500 is conference opponent South Florida(who has yet to beat anybody above .500, 4-4 McNeese St. being the closest), who lost to one of the worst teams in the Big 12, Kansas.

 

But they beat S Florida easily so what's your point?

 

That neither are any good. The same way you can say "If Cincy had played bad teams they'd be 7-2", you can probably more easily say "Cincy can't beat anybody that's any good". That statement extends to USF, whose wins have a combined record of 10-30, with only Southland Conference power McNeese State being at .500 among those teams. And it's not like their losses are fantastic, losing to Cincy and to Big 12 bottom dweller(no offense Snood) Kansas.

Edited November 3, 2006 by Transmogrified Tiger