Dempster - if you were a GM, would you deal for him?

[CubinNY]

I have never met anyone who values numbers like LD% and also values saves. In my experience these types of people are mutually exclusive. People who value saves ain't exactly deep thinkers, and people who covet a "proven closer" tend to look no deeper than save percentage and possibly ERA, and those numbers make Dempster look very bad.

 

Hendry was enamored with simply save totals when he went after Alf. Dempster has 57 saves the past two years with a terrible team that didn't give him many opportunities. His ERA is in the 3's, his OPS against is sub 700, his k/9 is about 8.5. He's not a worthless reliever.

You can dig up peripherals and make a case that he has value as a middle reliever, but unfortunately he makes closer money, and I very much doubt he could be sold as an elite middle reliever. Non-elite middle relievers aren't worth much. As a closer he's a very hard sell because people who want a proven closer don't want to hear about peripherals. They want save percentage.

 

Go look at save % of the league and tell me he wouldn't be a welcomed addition to a lot of teams..

 

I like Dempster and I don't look and don't put too much stock in this season's numbers

[goonys evil twin]

I have never met anyone who values numbers like LD% and also values saves. In my experience these types of people are mutually exclusive. People who value saves ain't exactly deep thinkers, and people who covet a "proven closer" tend to look no deeper than save percentage and possibly ERA, and those numbers make Dempster look very bad.

 

Hendry was enamored with simply save totals when he went after Alf. Dempster has 57 saves the past two years with a terrible team that didn't give him many opportunities. His ERA is in the 3's, his OPS against is sub 700, his k/9 is about 8.5. He's not a worthless reliever.

You can dig up peripherals and make a case that he has value as a middle reliever, but unfortunately he makes closer money, and I very much doubt he could be sold as an elite middle reliever. Non-elite middle relievers aren't worth much. As a closer he's a very hard sell because people who want a proven closer don't want to hear about peripherals. They want save percentage.

 

Save totals trump save % for many people.

 

In fact, I never ever hear anybody ever talk about save % when discussing closers. Just like they don't talk about win/loss for pitchers, they talk about win totals.

[Soriano12]

Ryan will have to wave his "no trade clause"

 

Brilliant Jim.

[frostwyrm]

I have never met anyone who values numbers like LD% and also values saves. In my experience these types of people are mutually exclusive. People who value saves ain't exactly deep thinkers, and people who covet a "proven closer" tend to look no deeper than save percentage and possibly ERA, and those numbers make Dempster look very bad.

 

Hendry was enamored with simply save totals when he went after Alf. Dempster has 57 saves the past two years with a terrible team that didn't give him many opportunities. His ERA is in the 3's, his OPS against is sub 700, his k/9 is about 8.5. He's not a worthless reliever.

You can dig up peripherals and make a case that he has value as a middle reliever, but unfortunately he makes closer money, and I very much doubt he could be sold as an elite middle reliever. Non-elite middle relievers aren't worth much. As a closer he's a very hard sell because people who want a proven closer don't want to hear about peripherals. They want save percentage.

 

Save totals trump save % for many people.

 

In fact, I never ever hear anybody ever talk about save % when discussing closers. Just like they don't talk about win/loss for pitchers, they talk about win totals.

 

You don't hear specific save % figures when the % is good, but blown saves definitely get noticed when they aren't surrounded by a whole bunch of saves. Demp's 9 blows will not be glossed over by 24 saves. He also took 9 losses, and every GM knows Demp nearly lost the closer's job and probably deserved to lose it.

[goonys evil twin]

You don't hear specific save % figures when the % is good, but blown saves definitely get noticed when they aren't surrounded by a whole bunch of saves. Demp's 9 blows will not be glossed over by 24 saves. He also took 9 losses, and every GM knows Demp nearly lost the closer's job and probably deserved to lose it.

 

Are you just going to continue pretending 2005 didn't happen? I'd like to know if this conversation is going to remain pointless.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I could see the Reds having interest in Dempster. They love to trade for relievers.

[frostwyrm]

You don't hear specific save % figures when the % is good, but blown saves definitely get noticed when they aren't surrounded by a whole bunch of saves. Demp's 9 blows will not be glossed over by 24 saves. He also took 9 losses, and every GM knows Demp nearly lost the closer's job and probably deserved to lose it.

 

Are you just going to continue pretending 2005 didn't happen? I'd like to know if this conversation is going to remain pointless.

We're both just speculating about Dempster's value, neither of us will actually know what he's worth until he's put on the trading block. Perhaps speculation is pointless, but this forum would be pretty thinly populated without it.

[nilodnayr]

I could see the Reds having interest in Dempster. They love to trade for relievers.

 

Yes Vance, all part of the brillian Adam Dunn scheme.

 

Dempters is and will be much better as a starter than as reliever. His biggest issues are walks, which are magnified when pitching single innings at a time. The starter market continues to go crazy. Case in point, the Twins just picked up Carlos Silva's option for 4M, and it was actually a decent move!!!! If you are a GM and you can sign a shlub for the standard 3/21 or trade for Dempster and his 2/10.5, you'll seriously consider Dempster. Usually, the third year of those deals are big losers, so the fact that Dempster is only under contract for 2 is a big deal that provides a lot of flexibility.

 

Dempster and Murton for Dunn!!!