McCoy: Time to Trade Dunn

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Hal McCoy is calling for the trade of Adam Dunn.

 

Link.

 

Is it time to trade Adam Dunn? Probably. Houston salivates over the thought of having the hometown guy on their roster. The Chicago Cubs and L.A. Dodgers have shown interest in the past.

 

Maybe it's time for Dunn to come to Chicago. :-k

[RockTheIvy]

Dunn then ARod. Pie in CF.

 

Z at 2B.

 

WS.

[b_wiggy_66]

Keep Adam Dunn far away from here. His 2-time(in a row mind you) strike out record for a season. His avg. has gone down every year now and dropped to .234 last year. He also is a butcher in left field and even an easy fly out is an adventure with him. Sure he hits a lot of homers but he strikes out a ton. I got on some Reds blogs to see what they were saying and it seems almost all of them want him to go. THey said he is not clutch and with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs for his career he is only batting .094 and only has 12 sac flys for his career. I saw enough of that this year we don't need a K machine like him, we need people who are going to make productive outs if their gonna get out at all.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Keep Adam Dunn far away from here. His 2-time(in a row mind you) strike out record for a season. His avg. has gone down every year now and dropped to .234 last year. He also is a butcher in left field and even an easy fly out is an adventure with him. Sure he hits a lot of homers but he strikes out a ton. I got on some Reds blogs to see what they were saying and it seems almost all of them want him to go. THey said he is not clutch and with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs for his career he is only batting .094 and only has 12 sac flys for his career. I saw enough of that this year we don't need a K machine like him, we need people who are going to make productive outs if their gonna get out at all.

 

Actually Dunn is amongst the best in baseball in not getting out at all.

 

His August and September were hideous.

 

This will be my only post in the thread, I hope for nothing less than another classic Dunn thread, folks.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Keep Adam Dunn far away from here. His 2-time(in a row mind you) strike out record for a season. His avg. has gone down every year now and dropped to .234 last year.

 

While his average may have slipped, he still had a very respectable 365 OBP. The only Cubs who had a higher OBP than that were Theriot in his limited AB's and Lee and Barrett. Murton matched him in this area. His low BA does not affect his ability to get on base.

 

With that 365 OBP, he produced a 490 SLG, his lowest in three years. That SLG combined with his OBP gave him a 855 OPS. Only three Cubs were better, Theriot (who won't repeat these numbers over a full season), Ramirez, and Barrett. Looking at only BA as a metric for Dunn is asinine. He's still extremely productive. Furthermore, he's only 26, there is time for him to improve his game.

 

He also is a butcher in left field and even an easy fly out is an adventure with him.

His adventures in the field are overplayed.

 

Sure he hits a lot of homers but he strikes out a ton. I got on some Reds blogs to see what they were saying and it seems almost all of them want him to go. THey said he is not clutch and with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs for his career he is only batting .094 and only has 12 sac flys for his career. I saw enough of that this year we don't need a K machine like him, we need people who are going to make productive outs if their gonna get out at all.

 

Productive outs...excuse me. :lmao:

 

I want a player who is good at not making outs. Dunn is one of those players.

 

He's 26 years old and he already has three season of 900 or better OPS. He's never had a season under 800.

 

The clutch argument against Dunn is a joke. With a man on third, with less than two outs, Dunn has a 355 OBP.

 

In close and late situations, he has a 389 OBP. With runners in scoring position with two outs, he has a 410 OBP. In a line-up where he could be sandwitched with two good hitters as he could in Chicago, Dunn would be a great asset.

 

With bases loaded, he batting 273, his OBP was a poor 214, but in those situations he slugs 636.

 

Dunn would be a huge upgrade for this team.

[Bruno7481]

Keep Adam Dunn far away from here. His 2-time(in a row mind you) strike out record for a season. His avg. has gone down every year now and dropped to .234 last year.

 

While his average may have slipped, he still had a very respectable 365 OBP. The only Cubs who had a higher OBP than that were Theriot in his limited AB's and Lee and Barrett. Murton matched him in this area. His low BA does not affect his ability to get on base.

 

With that 365 OBP, he produced a 490 SLG, his lowest in three years. That SLG combined with his OBP gave him a 855 OPS. Only three Cubs were better, Theriot (who won't repeat these numbers over a full season), Ramirez, and Barrett. Looking at only BA as a metric for Dunn is asinine. He's still extremely productive. Furthermore, he's only 26, there is time for him to improve his game.

 

He also is a butcher in left field and even an easy fly out is an adventure with him.

His adventures in the field are overplayed.

 

Sure he hits a lot of homers but he strikes out a ton. I got on some Reds blogs to see what they were saying and it seems almost all of them want him to go. THey said he is not clutch and with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs for his career he is only batting .094 and only has 12 sac flys for his career. I saw enough of that this year we don't need a K machine like him, we need people who are going to make productive outs if their gonna get out at all.

 

 

 

The clutch argument against Dunn is a joke. With a man on third, with less than two outs, Dunn has a 355 OBP.

 

In close and late situations, he has a 389 OBP. With runners in scoring position with two outs, he has a 410 OBP. In a line-up where he could be sandwitched with two good hitters as he could in Chicago, Dunn would be a great asset.

 

With bases loaded, he batting 273, his OBP was a poor 214, but in those situations he slugs 636.

 

Dunn would be a huge upgrade for this team.

 

I think the argument can be made that in those type of situations, he is not driving the runs home. I would think that is one instance where his Batting average would matter. He is a run producer, those are situations where he needs to HIT, not walk. Sure the walk helps and the OBP is great, but it isn't bringing the run home.

 

Hitting .094 with a runner at third and less than two outs is atrocious, regardless of his OBP.

 

I'm for getting Dunn despite this, but I don't think he is worth what it will take.

[jmajew]

Keep Adam Dunn far away from here. His 2-time(in a row mind you) strike out record for a season. His avg. has gone down every year now and dropped to .234 last year.

 

While his average may have slipped, he still had a very respectable 365 OBP. The only Cubs who had a higher OBP than that were Theriot in his limited AB's and Lee and Barrett. Murton matched him in this area. His low BA does not affect his ability to get on base.

 

With that 365 OBP, he produced a 490 SLG, his lowest in three years. That SLG combined with his OBP gave him a 855 OPS. Only three Cubs were better, Theriot (who won't repeat these numbers over a full season), Ramirez, and Barrett. Looking at only BA as a metric for Dunn is asinine. He's still extremely productive. Furthermore, he's only 26, there is time for him to improve his game.

 

He also is a butcher in left field and even an easy fly out is an adventure with him.

His adventures in the field are overplayed.

 

Sure he hits a lot of homers but he strikes out a ton. I got on some Reds blogs to see what they were saying and it seems almost all of them want him to go. THey said he is not clutch and with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs for his career he is only batting .094 and only has 12 sac flys for his career. I saw enough of that this year we don't need a K machine like him, we need people who are going to make productive outs if their gonna get out at all.

 

Productive outs...excuse me. :lmao:

 

I want a player who is good at not making outs. Dunn is one of those players.

 

He's 26 years old and he already has three season of 900 or better OPS. He's never had a season under 800.

 

The clutch argument against Dunn is a joke. With a man on third, with less than two outs, Dunn has a 355 OBP.

 

In close and late situations, he has a 389 OBP. With runners in scoring position with two outs, he has a 410 OBP. In a line-up where he could be sandwitched with two good hitters as he could in Chicago, Dunn would be a great asset.

 

With bases loaded, he batting 273, his OBP was a poor 214, but in those situations he slugs 636.

 

Dunn would be a huge upgrade for this team.

 

If we get Dunn that means Murton is useless. Murton put up an OPS of 809. Dunn's was only 855 this year and his career OPS is 893. I don't think he is worth the extra 7 million or so in salary. He is a good ball player but unless we get rid of Jones I dont want him and I don't think he will be that big of an improvement over Murton next year. I'd much rather look for upgrades in CF and 2B than I would look to replace Murton.

 

Just to reiterate. If we can either trade Jones or move Jones to center I would take Dunn in a heartbeat. But if it means replacing Murton with him I think it would be a poor allocation of our resources and it would give us as big of an improvement as spending 7 million more on a secondbaseman.

[Balsa]

Where's ManCrushOnNomar?

[rawaction]

One of my biggest reasons for wanting Dunn so bad the last couple years has been his age and likelihood of his improvement. But as has been mentioned, he has had a decline in each of the last couple years in a great hitter's park. He's no longer a lock for a .900 OPS, which while he will still be productive it becomes a matter of what you'd give up for him. You also have to compare him to some of the other options.

 

Do you take Dunn at a .855 OPS and give up players for him, while only having him guaranteed for 1 year? OR do you go after Lee or Soriano who are older, but don't require any lost prospects and won't be a huge salary difference over Dunn for 4-5 years?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

What if we could get Dunn for Prior? Would you do it?

[rawaction]

What if we could get Dunn for Prior? Would you do it?

 

Nope. I'm not trading Prior. He's got much more upside than Dunn. And the Cubs would be trading Prior at his lowest possible value. Prior is in the same boat as Wood. You can't trade him now. He's been injured too much and is too deep into his contract. He's at the point where you just have to keep him for the duration of his contract and hope he stays healthy.

[Backtobanks]

I've never been a Dunn fan and I say no to Dunn unless the Cubs could get him very cheap (which isn't going to happen).

[RichHillIsABeast]

Who are we going to trade for Dunn? The Reds need pitching big time and we really don't have an attractive ML ready starter to trade.

 

Hill is a flyball pitcher. That's not good in GABP. I don't think he'd be a good fit there, but if we did trade in the division, I'd rather Hill go there b/c he has the smallest chance of hurting us there.

[RockTheIvy]

If we could dump Jones for Dunn, I'd be thrilled. That way, we could keep Murton and put him in RF, then have Pie in CF. That could be our outfield for the next several seasons.

 

Murton

Barrett

Lee

Ramirez

Dunn

2B

SS

Pie

 

Lots of +800 OPS action there, which is the best kind.

[RockTheIvy]

Who are we going to trade for Dunn? The Reds need pitching big time and we really don't have an attractive ML ready starter to trade.

 

Hill is a flyball pitcher. That's not good in GABP. I don't think he'd be a good fit there, but if we did trade in the division, I'd rather Hill go there b/c he has the smallest chance of hurting us there.

 

I'd trade Hill, if they'd do it straight up.

[nilodnayr]

Keep Adam Dunn far away from here. His 2-time(in a row mind you) strike out record for a season. His avg. has gone down every year now and dropped to .234 last year.

 

While his average may have slipped, he still had a very respectable 365 OBP. The only Cubs who had a higher OBP than that were Theriot in his limited AB's and Lee and Barrett. Murton matched him in this area. His low BA does not affect his ability to get on base.

 

With that 365 OBP, he produced a 490 SLG, his lowest in three years. That SLG combined with his OBP gave him a 855 OPS. Only three Cubs were better, Theriot (who won't repeat these numbers over a full season), Ramirez, and Barrett. Looking at only BA as a metric for Dunn is asinine. He's still extremely productive. Furthermore, he's only 26, there is time for him to improve his game.

 

He also is a butcher in left field and even an easy fly out is an adventure with him.

His adventures in the field are overplayed.

 

Sure he hits a lot of homers but he strikes out a ton. I got on some Reds blogs to see what they were saying and it seems almost all of them want him to go. THey said he is not clutch and with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs for his career he is only batting .094 and only has 12 sac flys for his career. I saw enough of that this year we don't need a K machine like him, we need people who are going to make productive outs if their gonna get out at all.

 

 

 

The clutch argument against Dunn is a joke. With a man on third, with less than two outs, Dunn has a 355 OBP.

 

In close and late situations, he has a 389 OBP. With runners in scoring position with two outs, he has a 410 OBP. In a line-up where he could be sandwitched with two good hitters as he could in Chicago, Dunn would be a great asset.

 

With bases loaded, he batting 273, his OBP was a poor 214, but in those situations he slugs 636.

 

Dunn would be a huge upgrade for this team.

 

I think the argument can be made that in those type of situations, he is not driving the runs home. I would think that is one instance where his Batting average would matter. He is a run producer, those are situations where he needs to HIT, not walk. Sure the walk helps and the OBP is great, but it isn't bringing the run home.

 

Hitting .094 with a runner at third and less than two outs is atrocious, regardless of his OBP.

 

I'm for getting Dunn despite this, but I don't think he is worth what it will take.

 

I'd rather have him get on base, not make outs and allow for a better chance for an even BIGGER inning, rather than hitting sac flies. In out lineup he'd be hitting ahead of Ramirez and Barrett. I'd rather Ramirez come up with one out and a man on first and third than with two outs and none on with a run in. But hey, thats just me, I like to score lots of runs.

[Backtobanks]

Who are we going to trade for Dunn? The Reds need pitching big time and we really don't have an attractive ML ready starter to trade.

 

Hill is a flyball pitcher. That's not good in GABP. I don't think he'd be a good fit there, but if we did trade in the division, I'd rather Hill go there b/c he has the smallest chance of hurting us there.

 

I'd trade Hill, if they'd do it straight up.

 

No way! It looks like Hill is penciled in to be the #3 starter for the Cubs. Trade Hill and you have to find 3 starters for next year's team.

[RockTheIvy]

I think, as Vance always :wink: says, that Dunn would be a huge addition to our "offense." He provides excellent OBP and excellent slugging. If he hits .260, you are looking at a monster season. He's only 26. There aren't many power hitters available this offseason, and far fewer available ones who are on teams that have [expletive] GMs, like the Reds.

 

Even Hendry should realize that rarely (go to hell, Tony Bautista) are 40hrs a bad thing.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Prior for Dunn might be an intriguing deal. There's a lot of reasons why not to do that trade on both sides, but there are a few reasons it could happen.

 

The Reds are frustrated with Dunn. His abysmal production down the stretch has made him the number one scapegoat for their missing the playoffs.

 

The Cubs have serious questions about Prior. I'm guessing the Cubs are frustrated over the injuries that have turned Prior from savior into major question mark for 2007.

 

The Cubs would like to add power to the line-up. The Reds want to add pitching. Both players have enormous ceilings, and both come with warts. Dunn is more likely to reach his ceiling, but some would say his ceiling is lower than Prior's. Prior has the highest ceiling, and if he returns to form, could easily become one of the top five pitchers in the game. On the other hand, Prior could be injured beyond repair for the forseeable future. It's a risky deal, but one both teams could be inclined to make.

 

If the Cubs make this deal, they will have to sign and acquire some pitching to replace Prior. It's an easier deal to make if the Cubs could sign either Zito or Schmidt first.

[RockTheIvy]

Prior for Dunn might be an intriguing deal. There's a lot of reasons why not to do that trade on both sides, but there are a few reasons it could happen.

 

The Reds are frustrated with Dunn. His abysmal production down the stretch has made him the number one scapegoat for their missing the playoffs.

 

The Cubs have serious questions about Prior. I'm guessing the Cubs are frustrated over the injuries that have turned Prior from savior into major question mark for 2007.

 

The Cubs would like to add power to the line-up. The Reds want to add pitching. Both players have enormous ceilings, and both come with warts. Dunn is more likely to reach his ceiling, but some would say his ceiling is lower than Prior's. Prior has the highest ceiling, and if he returns to form, could easily become one of the top five pitchers in the game. On the other hand, Prior could be injured beyond repair for the forseeable future. It's a risky deal, but one both teams could be inclined to make.

 

If the Cubs make this deal, they will have to sign and acquire some pitching to replace Prior. It's an easier deal to make if the Cubs could sign either Zito or Schmidt first.

 

Good thing we traded all those pitchers last year for Pierre. D'oh.

[Jazz]

This is the perfect oppurtunity to trade for Dunn. Maybe the cubs can learn something in trading for players when they're value is at their lowest and trading their own player at their highest value. Jones for Dunn would be a great deal for Hendry. As soon as that deal is made, I would then make sure we signed him to a 3-4 year deal for 8-10 mil a year to further exploit his low value right now.

[Bruno7481]

This is the perfect oppurtunity to trade for Dunn. Maybe the cubs can learn something in trading for players when they're value is at their lowest and trading their own player at their highest value. Jones for Dunn would be a great deal for Hendry. As soon as that deal is made, I would then make sure we signed him to a 3-4 year deal for 8-10 mil a year to further exploit his low value right now.

 

There is no way they Reds would trade Dunn for Jones.

 

Nobody is saying Dunn isn't productive, he is, flaws and all. There is just debate in regards to if Dunn is worth what it would take to get him.

[Backtobanks]

I think, as Vance always :wink: says, that Dunn would be a huge addition to our "offense." He provides excellent OBP and excellent slugging. If he hits .260, you are looking at a monster season. He's only 26. There aren't many power hitters available this offseason, and far fewer available ones who are on teams that have [expletive] GMs, like the Reds.

 

Even Hendry should realize that rarely (go to hell, Tony Bautista) are 40hrs a bad thing.

 

If he hits .260 is like saying if Murton hits 50 HRs it will be a monster season. Dunn has only hit .260 once as a full-time player. Dunn for Jones - great. Dunn for Jones plus a pitching prospect - maybe. Dunn for Hill or Prior - no way.

[nilodnayr]

This is the perfect oppurtunity to trade for Dunn. Maybe the cubs can learn something in trading for players when they're value is at their lowest and trading their own player at their highest value. Jones for Dunn would be a great deal for Hendry. As soon as that deal is made, I would then make sure we signed him to a 3-4 year deal for 8-10 mil a year to further exploit his low value right now.

 

That trade makes V. Zambrano for Kazmir look pretty fair. Video games won't even let you make that trade.

 

Will the reds go with an OF of Denorfia, Freel, and Griffey? I would assume they would want Murton back in the trade, which I would be fine with. Either that or a 3 way trade to send and Murton package for pitching and pitching to the reds.

[RockTheIvy]

I think, as Vance always :wink: says, that Dunn would be a huge addition to our "offense." He provides excellent OBP and excellent slugging. If he hits .260, you are looking at a monster season. He's only 26. There aren't many power hitters available this offseason, and far fewer available ones who are on teams that have [expletive] GMs, like the Reds.

 

Even Hendry should realize that rarely (go to hell, Tony Bautista) are 40hrs a bad thing.

 

If he hits .260 is like saying if Murton hits 50 HRs it will be a monster season. Dunn has only hit .260 once as a full-time player. Dunn for Jones - great. Dunn for Jones plus a pitching prospect - maybe. Dunn for Hill or Prior - no way.

 

Except, not quite. Murton has never hit 50 hrs, but Dunn has hit .260. I'm just saying it would be like getting Hafner, if he just hit .260.