Looking back, its sad that Dusty ruined Corey Patterson...

[baseball7897]

As we all know, CP saw a significant jump in production from 2002 (age 22) to the 2003 (age 23) seasons, going from a .678 to .840 OPS. He continued to produce in 2004, with a less impressive .772 OPS, but with his best walk rate of his career [OBP .054 higher than BA].

 

The downfall began there, as Dusty's strong push to keep CP as the leadoff hitter, a role his skillset CLEARLY WAS NOT meant for, began. We all know the disastrous 2005 season and its .602 OPS.

 

The point is, how badly would we love to have the a good defensive center fielder (13-22 FRAR) with an .800 OPS and 30-40 steals hitting in the 6 spot? Oh, we had one.

 

Just another reason to be thankful Dusty is gone.

Co-sign. Because he also destroyed our top two pitchers, Dusty's treatment of Corey seems to get overlooked. Another career destroyed.

 

To blame Dusty Baker for the fall of Kerry Wood is ignorant. Kerry Wood was destroyed in High School when he threw back to back games of 150 pitches. Kerry Wood destroyed himself by not fixing his mechanics.

[UK1679666180]

As we all know, CP saw a significant jump in production from 2002 (age 22) to the 2003 (age 23) seasons, going from a .678 to .840 OPS. He continued to produce in 2004, with a less impressive .772 OPS, but with his best walk rate of his career [OBP .054 higher than BA].

 

The downfall began there, as Dusty's strong push to keep CP as the leadoff hitter, a role his skillset CLEARLY WAS NOT meant for, began. We all know the disastrous 2005 season and its .602 OPS.

 

The point is, how badly would we love to have the a good defensive center fielder (13-22 FRAR) with an .800 OPS and 30-40 steals hitting in the 6 spot? Oh, we had one.

 

Just another reason to be thankful Dusty is gone.

Co-sign. Because he also destroyed our top two pitchers, Dusty's treatment of Corey seems to get overlooked. Another career destroyed.

 

To blame Dusty Baker for the fall of Kerry Wood is ignorant. Kerry Wood was destroyed in High School when he threw back to back games of 150 pitches. Kerry Wood destroyed himself by not fixing his mechanics.

 

He definitely didn't ruin him, but he wasn't cautious enough to increase the chances of Wood being healthy enough to contribute. Wood's mechanics have been poor his entire career, a career that has been surrounded by tweaking mechanics after each arm injury.

 

If that's the case, you have to limit the workload to a point where a pitcher that fatigues sooner than most will not pitch and overthrow while fatigued.

 

IMO, he was worked harder than his arm could take and that happened before, during, and likely after Baker.

[wastra]

Dusty did nothing manager-like to help PREVENT the demise of Patterson, Wood, and Prior. he certainly didn't PROTECT any of them in any meaningful way.

 

How much he actually CAUSED their problems is debateable...highly.

 

 

I think the big problems with Patterson rest in the fact that he didn't spend enough time in the minors and he was never taught the right way to play.

[CubinNY]

Dusty did nothing manager-like to help PREVENT the demise of Patterson, Wood, and Prior. he certainly didn't PROTECT any of them in any meaningful way.

 

How much he actually CAUSED their problems is debateable...highly.

 

 

I think the big problems with Patterson rest in the fact that he didn't spend enough time in the minors and he was never taught the right way to play.

 

cosign.

[kroth1342]

Dusty did nothing manager-like to help PREVENT the demise of Patterson, Wood, and Prior. he certainly didn't PROTECT any of them in any meaningful way.

 

How much he actually CAUSED their problems is debateable...highly.

 

 

I think the big problems with Patterson rest in the fact that he didn't spend enough time in the minors and he was never taught the right way to play.

 

cosign.

 

I wouldn't say he didn't spend enough time in the minors, he had almost 1300 AB from 1999-2001. He probably needed to finish 2001 at AAA instead of playing with the Cubs, and that may have delayed his development somewhat. The fact is, his 2003 and 2004 seasons, where he contributed 3.2 and 5.2 WARP3 would fit in very well now if he was still with the team - had Dusty NOT tried to fit a round hole into a square peg with Corey as the leadoff hitter.

 

Corey's freefall under Baker and Co. in 2005 was compounded even more by fan abuse. Suffice to say, Baker did not put Corey in a position to be a useful player on the team nor to take advantage of his rarer skillset.

[CubinNY]

Dusty did nothing manager-like to help PREVENT the demise of Patterson, Wood, and Prior. he certainly didn't PROTECT any of them in any meaningful way.

 

How much he actually CAUSED their problems is debateable...highly.

 

 

I think the big problems with Patterson rest in the fact that he didn't spend enough time in the minors and he was never taught the right way to play.

 

cosign.

 

I wouldn't say he didn't spend enough time in the minors, he had almost 1300 AB from 1999-2001. He probably needed to finish 2001 at AAA instead of playing with the Cubs, and that may have delayed his development somewhat. The fact is, his 2003 and 2004 seasons, where he contributed 3.2 and 5.2 WARP3 would fit in very well now if he was still with the team - had Dusty NOT tried to fit a round hole into a square peg with Corey as the leadoff hitter.

 

Corey's freefall under Baker and Co. in 2005 was compounded even more by fan abuse. Suffice to say, Baker did not put Corey in a position to be a useful player on the team nor to take advantage of his rarer skillset.

 

IMO, you missed the point of wastra's post. And missed it entirely. the number of ABS are not that important. What is important is the BA/OBP/SLG/OPS numbers.

 

He was drafted in 1998.

 

In 1999 he had 475 ABs in low A and put up good numbers (.320/.358/.592 /.950). Not hard in low A for talented players

 

In 2000 he had 444 ABs in AA and put up mediocre numbers (.261/.338/.491/.829) and was brought up to the majors as a Septemeber call up.

 

In 2001 he had 386 ABs in AAA and put up terrible numbers (.253/.308/.387/.695). In 59 games and 131 ABs in the bigs he put up even worse numbers (.221/.266/.336/.602)

 

In 2002 he played full time for the big club. Patterson was rushed through the minors. It is my opinon that he never should have been promoted to AAA in 2001 and certianly shouldn't have been sloted for the starting spot with the numbers he put up in AAA and in his breif stint in the majors.

 

B/c the Cubs value tools over all else he was. No one knows what Patterson might have become if he was given time to develop whatever skills he had in the minors.

[kroth1342]

Dusty did nothing manager-like to help PREVENT the demise of Patterson, Wood, and Prior. he certainly didn't PROTECT any of them in any meaningful way.

 

How much he actually CAUSED their problems is debateable...highly.

 

 

I think the big problems with Patterson rest in the fact that he didn't spend enough time in the minors and he was never taught the right way to play.

 

cosign.

 

I wouldn't say he didn't spend enough time in the minors, he had almost 1300 AB from 1999-2001. He probably needed to finish 2001 at AAA instead of playing with the Cubs, and that may have delayed his development somewhat. The fact is, his 2003 and 2004 seasons, where he contributed 3.2 and 5.2 WARP3 would fit in very well now if he was still with the team - had Dusty NOT tried to fit a round hole into a square peg with Corey as the leadoff hitter.

 

Corey's freefall under Baker and Co. in 2005 was compounded even more by fan abuse. Suffice to say, Baker did not put Corey in a position to be a useful player on the team nor to take advantage of his rarer skillset.

 

IMO, you missed the point of wastra's post. And missed it entirely. the number of ABS are not that important. What is important is the BA/OBP/SLG/OPS numbers.

 

He was drafted in 1998.

 

In 1999 he had 475 ABs in low A and put up good numbers (.320/.358/.592 /.950). Not hard in low A for talented players

 

In 2000 he had 444 ABs in AA and put up mediocre numbers (.261/.338/.491/.829) and was brought up to the majors as a Septemeber call up.

 

In 2001 he had 386 ABs in AAA and put up terrible numbers (.253/.308/.387/.695). In 59 games and 131 ABs in the bigs he put up even worse numbers (.221/.266/.336/.602)

 

In 2002 he played full time for the big club. Patterson was rushed through the minors. It is my opinon that he never should have been promoted to AAA in 2001 and certianly shouldn't have been sloted for the starting spot with the numbers he put up in AAA and in his breif stint in the majors.

 

B/c the Cubs value tools over all else he was. No one knows what Patterson might have become if he was given time to develop whatever skills he had in the minors.

 

Ok, but that's not the point of this thread. To summarize: Corey was a CF who:

1) above avg SLG, below avg OBP

2) had great speed and base stealing success

3) played good defense

4) entering his prime years under Cubs control at a low cost

 

Dusty wanted Corey in the leadoff slot to utilize #2, because he possessed the tools, not the skills, of a leadoff man. Corey's struggles derive from this decision, even though he could serve as an incredibly capable CF in the mid-bottom of the order.