Juan Pierre OR Felix Pie

[RyCubsFan]

This off season, Hendry is going to be faced with a decision about what to do for Center Field next year. He could (1.) Re-sign Juan Pierre for a multi-year deal. (2.) Call up Felix Pie from AAA to play CF. Or, (3.) Give a third player a one year deal as a stopgap for Pie. Let's ignore the third option for now, and focus on the first two.

 

2006

Pierre .285 BA, .329 OBP, .385 SLG, .714 OPS

Pie .282 BA, .340 OBP, .445 SLG, .785 OPS

 

Pierre 537 AB, 153 Hits, 28 BB, 27 Dbls, 12 Triples, 1 HR, 28 RBI, 44 SB

Pie 515 AB, 145 Hits, 45 BB, 31 Dbls, 7 Triples, 13 HR, 55 RBI, 15 SB

 

POWER

Pie has a lot more power than Juan Pierre. In less at bats, Pie has the same amount of doubles and triples as Pierre, but be has 12 more home runs. This reflects in their RBI totals. Though both have primarily hit leadoff, Pie has nearly doubled Pierre's RBI total. Advantage: PIE

 

ABILITY TO GET ON BASE

Pie and Pierre have nearly identical batting averages this year. Pie strikes out much more frequently than Pierre. Pie has 119k's to Pierre's 33k's this year. If Pie would make more contact, he might be able to beat out a few more ground balls, boosting his batting average. So, on batting average alone, I'd give the edge in 2007 to Pierre. However, Pie draws more walks than Pierre. This year, Pie has drawn 62% more walks than Pierre, not an insignificant amount. This has boosted Pie's OBP above Pierre's this year. For 2007, though...Advantage: LEAN'S PIERRE

 

BASERUNNING:

Both are very fast. Both have the ability to steal a lot of bases, and do so successfully. Pierre, however, has a lot more experience in baserunning than Pie does. Pie is making improvements in this area recently, and Pierre still gets caught stealing too frequently, but Pierre clearly has the advantage here. ADVANTAGE: PIERRE

 

DEFENSE:

Both are fast. Both cover a lot of ground. Pierre has more experience than Pie and probably get a little better jumps on the ball at this point. Pierre also probably takes better routes more frequently. However, Pie's throwing arm is vastly superior to Pierre's. Pie has numerous outfield assists at Iowa this year. His arm is strong and accurate. Pie has little or no arm strength. ADVANTAGE: PIE

 

COST TO CUBS:

Pierre will command a hefty salary. It's uncertain exactly how much though. Estimates widely vary from 5-6 million a year all the way to Furcal-esque figures of around 13 million a year. Pie would make league minimum (roughly around 300k). ADVANTAGE: PIE

 

Conclusion:

Felix and Juan have had strikingly similar years. In 2007, Pie would provide a lot more pop in the lineup than Pierre would; Pierre would steal more bases. They'd get on base at a similar rate, though I'd expect Pierre to have a slightly higher OBP. Pie would greatly improve the Cubs arms in the outfield.

 

The tipping point when deciding between them is cost. Pierre does not simply bring enough of an advantage over Pie to justify spending 7-8 million more in salary. That salary would be better served being used to sign an impact bat like Soriano, Sheffield, or Lee, or a starting pitcher like Schmidt or Zito.

 

The Cubs would be a better team in 2007 with Pie starting in CF, rather than Juan Pierre.

[Lefty]

Maybe there is an adjustment to be made for the fact that Pie is playing in AAA?

 

Pie's Major League Equivalent is about .255/.295/.390. That is similar to Patterson's 2001 and 2002 seasons. Pie is a half year younger than Patterson at similar levels. So if Pie becomes slightly better than Patterson's .270/.320/.430 seasons, next year is a crapshoot as to who would be more productive.

 

I've always felt that Pierre would be extended to justify trading Nolasco (and Pinto). Hendry has lost confidence in his ability to find solutions. Instead of waiting for an Eric Byrnes or Jose Cruz to be a stopgap (just examples), Hendry would rather pay up to cross something off his to-do-list.

[jyoung55]

I think Hendry has already talked about getting Pierre an extension before the end of the year. So I guess that shows you what he thinks.

 

Also, those numbers for Pie are at AAA. I would like to see better numbers at that level from him, and I think he is capable of better numbers. So I think he gets another year down there.

[Balsa]

Also, those numbers for Pie are at AAA. I would like to see better numbers at that level from him, and I think he is capable of better numbers. So I think he gets another year down there.

I agree that this is the difference maker, and that Pie needs AT LEAST another half-year down at AAA. I want to see him strike out a bit less, and give him more time to develop.

[Soriano12]

If the Cubs are gonna bring up Pie and let Pierre walk then they better

get a leadoff guy at 2B. IMO the worst thing you can do is stick Pie in that leadoff role. It will be CPatt all over again.

 

Get a second baseman that can leadoff(Giles, Luis Castillo)

 

and then bat Pie down in the order around 7th.

 

How the Sox handled Brian Anderson is the blueprint the Cubs should use

for Pie.

[Derwood]

Could Pie project better as a corner OF? With that power, he seems out of place in CF. Sure, you have Carlos Beltran doing it, but are we better served putting Pie in RF?

[Soriano12]

Could Pie project better as a corner OF? With that power, he seems out of place in CF. Sure, you have Carlos Beltran doing it, but are we better served putting Pie in RF?

 

In terms of LF vs RF...don't you usually put the better athlete/defender in LF?

 

If so I could see Pie as more of a LF.

[CubColtPacer]

Could Pie project better as a corner OF? With that power, he seems out of place in CF. Sure, you have Carlos Beltran doing it, but are we better served putting Pie in RF?

 

You only put power into the corner OF because usually power hitters cannot field a position like CF effectively. If Pie can do it, than it is a big bonus to get a power hitter at one of the tougher defensive positions.

[da bears]

I agree with the previous posters that Pie needs at least another half a year down in AAA. How old is he anyways, like 21?

[C.C.]

I agree with the previous posters that Pie needs at least another half a year down in AAA. How old is he anyways, like 21?

 

At least another 1/2 year...No reason to rush him.

[Mizzou]

I don't really want either one in CF next year, but if I had to choose between the two, I'd take Pierre.

[RyCubsFan]

I agree with the previous posters that Pie needs at least another half a year down in AAA. How old is he anyways, like 21?

 

At least another 1/2 year...No reason to rush him.

 

Why? He's had a good year in AAA. 119k's in over 500 at bats is not all that alarming. It's no where near Harvey territory.

 

His OPS in August: over 1.000.

 

He's responded well to every promotion. I see no reason why he couldn't do so in the big leagues as well next year.

 

I do agree with a poster that he should not bat leadoff. I'd put him 7th in the order too. I'd much rather have Murton leading off. OBP OBP OBP.

[Guest]

Keep in mind that if we let Pierre go, we also will get two additional draft picks.

 

So...the choice is Pie + two additional first round picks vs. Pierre.

 

 

Heck, I'd let Pagan play CF for however long is needed until Pie is ready rather than re-sign Pierre.

[C.C.]

I agree with the previous posters that Pie needs at least another half a year down in AAA. How old is he anyways, like 21?

 

At least another 1/2 year...No reason to rush him.

 

Why? He's had a good year in AAA. 119k's in over 500 at bats is not all that alarming. It's no where near Harvey territory.

 

His OPS in August: over 1.000.

 

He's responded well to every promotion. I see no reason why he couldn't do so in the big leagues as well next year.

 

I do agree with a poster that he should not bat leadoff. I'd put him 7th in the order too. I'd much rather have Murton leading off. OBP OBP OBP.

 

He's had a good couple of months. He needs to prove it over a year.

[chicago chop]

Could Pie project better as a corner OF? With that power, he seems out of place in CF. Sure, you have Carlos Beltran doing it, but are we better served putting Pie in RF?

 

In terms of LF vs RF...don't you usually put the better athlete/defender in LF?

 

If so I could see Pie as more of a LF.

 

Usually you put the stronger outfielding in RF. Roberto Clemente had a cannon arm and roamed RF for years for the Pirates. Another example of this was Sosa's insistence that he only play RF or the fact that a limited range Bonds plays LF......

 

If he doesn't play in CF, Pie should play RF.....

[Guest]

I agree with the previous posters that Pie needs at least another half a year down in AAA. How old is he anyways, like 21?

 

At least another 1/2 year...No reason to rush him.

 

Why? He's had a good year in AAA. 119k's in over 500 at bats is not all that alarming. It's no where near Harvey territory.

 

His OPS in August: over 1.000.

 

He's responded well to every promotion. I see no reason why he couldn't do so in the big leagues as well next year.

 

I do agree with a poster that he should not bat leadoff. I'd put him 7th in the order too. I'd much rather have Murton leading off. OBP OBP OBP.

 

He's had a good couple of months. He needs to prove it over a year.

Am I confusing you with another poster or are you someone who has defended Pierre because he's "been hot lately"?

[jmajew]

ABILITY TO GET ON BASE

Pie and Pierre have nearly identical batting averages this year. Pie strikes out much more frequently than Pierre. Pie has 119k's to Pierre's 33k's this year. If Pie would make more contact, he might be able to beat out a few more ground balls, boosting his batting average. So, on batting average alone, I'd give the edge in 2007 to Pierre. However, Pie draws more walks than Pierre. This year, Pie has drawn 62% more walks than Pierre, not an insignificant amount. This has boosted Pie's OBP above Pierre's this year. For 2007, though...Advantage: LEAN'S PIERRE

 

If they try to make Pie into more of a slap hitter he will propably lose alot of his value. You don't want to change something that drastic because it can ruin a player. Look at Corey. He always struck out alot but was told to be more of a contact hitter and hit more groundballs. IMO that ruined Corey. You have to let a player be who he is.

[C.C.]

I agree with the previous posters that Pie needs at least another half a year down in AAA. How old is he anyways, like 21?

 

At least another 1/2 year...No reason to rush him.

 

Why? He's had a good year in AAA. 119k's in over 500 at bats is not all that alarming. It's no where near Harvey territory.

 

His OPS in August: over 1.000.

 

He's responded well to every promotion. I see no reason why he couldn't do so in the big leagues as well next year.

 

I do agree with a poster that he should not bat leadoff. I'd put him 7th in the order too. I'd much rather have Murton leading off. OBP OBP OBP.

 

He's had a good couple of months. He needs to prove it over a year.

Am I confusing you with another poster or are you someone who has defended Pierre because he's "been hot lately"?

 

Your confused, and what does that have to do with Pie? Pierre has had success in the Bigs.

[Guest]

Keep in mind that if we let Pierre go, we also will get two additional draft picks.

 

So...the choice is Pie + two additional first round picks vs. Pierre.

 

 

Heck, I'd let Pagan play CF for however long is needed until Pie is ready rather than re-sign Pierre.

Sorry, let me amend this a bit...

 

 

the choice is:

 

Pie & Pagan + two additional first round picks + possibly $10M to spend elsewhere

 

vs.

 

Pierre

[C.C.]

ABILITY TO GET ON BASE

Pie and Pierre have nearly identical batting averages this year. Pie strikes out much more frequently than Pierre. Pie has 119k's to Pierre's 33k's this year. If Pie would make more contact, he might be able to beat out a few more ground balls, boosting his batting average. So, on batting average alone, I'd give the edge in 2007 to Pierre. However, Pie draws more walks than Pierre. This year, Pie has drawn 62% more walks than Pierre, not an insignificant amount. This has boosted Pie's OBP above Pierre's this year. For 2007, though...Advantage: LEAN'S PIERRE

 

If they try to make Pie into more of a slap hitter he will propably lose alot of his value. You don't want to change something that drastic because it can ruin a player. Look at Corey. He always struck out alot but was told to be more of a contact hitter and hit more groundballs. IMO that ruined Corey. You have to let a player be who he is.

 

Plus you are comparing AAA numbers to the Major Leagues! It's a big difference just ask Rich Hill...

[Guest]

I agree with the previous posters that Pie needs at least another half a year down in AAA. How old is he anyways, like 21?

 

At least another 1/2 year...No reason to rush him.

 

Why? He's had a good year in AAA. 119k's in over 500 at bats is not all that alarming. It's no where near Harvey territory.

 

His OPS in August: over 1.000.

 

He's responded well to every promotion. I see no reason why he couldn't do so in the big leagues as well next year.

 

I do agree with a poster that he should not bat leadoff. I'd put him 7th in the order too. I'd much rather have Murton leading off. OBP OBP OBP.

 

He's had a good couple of months. He needs to prove it over a year.

Am I confusing you with another poster or are you someone who has defended Pierre because he's "been hot lately"?

 

Your confused, and what does that have to do with Pie? Pierre has had success in the Bigs.

Sorry about the confusion.

[YearofDaCubs]

Pie

[Warpticon]

Could Pie project better as a corner OF? With that power, he seems out of place in CF. Sure, you have Carlos Beltran doing it, but are we better served putting Pie in RF?

 

...I don't understand. Is there something wrong with having power if you play CF? Isn't that a good thing? And his power is still developing, so he's definitely better suited for CF in terms of value, especailly with his defensive skills. And it's not as if Beltran is the only power hitting CF in the game--Sizemore? Edmonds? Damon? (how does he have 21 homers already?) Wells? Cameron? Jones? Hunter?

 

Pie could probably use another half season, but he deserves a shot. He had an enomous slump a couple of months ago. In May and June, Pie hit under .230 and struck out 63 times. In July and August, he's figured it out. Only 41 K's in more at-bats over the last two months. In August he's been fantastic, hitting .340/.394/.620 with 12 doubles, two triples, four homers. Since the ASB, Pie is hitting .330/.378/.542. Also, after strugglng badly with stolen base accuracy, he is now 8 for his last 9 steal attempts.

 

If he were putting up his overall numbers in AAA consistently over a season, I wouldn't be so inclined to give him a shot. However, Pie has shown at every level an ability to adjust. As a 21 year old in AAA coming off a half season injury-related layoff, it's not surprising that Pie might struggle, but it's mighty impressve how quickly and drastically he's turned it around.

 

Comparing him to Patterson, keep in mind that Corey was promoted when he was having a bad season at AAA to be a sparkplug or some other bullcrap. He hadn't shown anywhere near the improvement over the course of the season that Pie has this year. Being cautious of rushing is important, but the situations aren't parallel.

[CubColtPacer]

Keep in mind that if we let Pierre go, we also will get two additional draft picks.

 

So...the choice is Pie + two additional first round picks vs. Pierre.

 

 

Heck, I'd let Pagan play CF for however long is needed until Pie is ready rather than re-sign Pierre.

 

This is what I would do. Offer Pierre arbitration-we would like him to decline, but if he accepts, it wouldn't be that bad to have him play CF for another year. Do not sign him to a multi-year deal.

[Guest]

Keep in mind that if we let Pierre go, we also will get two additional draft picks.

 

So...the choice is Pie + two additional first round picks vs. Pierre.

 

 

Heck, I'd let Pagan play CF for however long is needed until Pie is ready rather than re-sign Pierre.

 

This is what I would do. Offer Pierre arbitration-we would like him to decline, but if he accepts, it wouldn't be that bad to have him play CF for another year. Do not sign him to a multi-year deal.

exactamundo! And make it clear up front in the negotiations that we're only interested in a one year deal since Pie will soon be ready.