baker on murton/pagan

[Banedon]

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but after Pagan beat out an infield grounder, Bob Brenly exclaimed "Speed never takes an off day."

 

Awesome.

 

That comment may cause me to revoke my backing of Brenly as a possible managerial candidate.

 

Where have you been all year and during Brenly's managerial career?

 

Those 5 original roast beef sandwiches for only $5.99 have gone to your head!

 

Yeah, this is the first sign for you that he might not be the guy?

 

More like the last sign.

[CubsBullsBears]

Somewhere in this I see Dusty needing to maintian the integrity of playoff races and keep Murton on the bench

[sherwood921]

It bugs me that it sounds like he's trying to take credit for Murton's success. If you're going to take credit for players' success, then you've got to take the blame when guys like Patterson, Rusch, etc. fail.

[sherwood921]

Somewhere in this I see Dusty needing to maintian the integrity of playoff races and keep Murton on the bench

 

We got it the first time.

[Jon]

That's what I'm reading, and it seems to have been a trend. Dusty talked about missing Pagan almost as much as he missed the rest of his horses. And he spoke of nothing but doubt about Murton last year when he was putting up better numbers than Pagan is now. I haven't heard him talk about protecting Pagan from the proverbial book that's bound to come out about him.

Not to mention Hendry talking about getting Lee and Pagan back several times. Those two shouldn't be within two sentences of each other.

 

And Pagan doesn't need a book because he's fast. Of course, Murton is pretty fast, as well, but it's not the same.

[CubsWin]

''It's hard to be good all year, I don't care who you are,'' Baker said of Murton overcoming his slump. ''That one month he didn't drive in runs was his difficult period. But guys find their second wind. And it's how we use them. He doesn't get down, and other guys are playing well, too.''

 

don't pull anything patting yourself on the back, dusty.

 

''If anyone is finding himself, it's Pagan,'' Baker said. ''He found his stroke quickly after being out for so long [since April 16]. He's got almost as many homers as Murton [four to Murton's six] in fewer at-bats. It's easy to play both of them when they're both doing well. They're both bringing something to the table we can use.''

 

:pukel:

 

There is nothing wrong with this comment at all. He is giving Murton a compliment by saying he has struggled at times but found himself for a strong second half run while complimenting Pagan, too. Oh my...the humanity.

 

I realize most people here don't like Baker and want him gone, but don't try to find reasons to criticize unfairly.

 

I agree that sometimes the piling on of Baker is a little over the top. In this case, I'm not so sure it isn't justified though. I would like to know the context of the comments, but it sure seems what he is saying here is 'Murton is coming around thanks to the way we use him, Pagan on the other hand is the truly talented one.'

Then why use the word "and"?

 

It seems clear that he is saying that Murton fought through the down period successfully and how he was used also helped. Wouldn't one have to ignore the fact that Baker said the word "and" in order to think that he was taking all of the credit for turning Murton around?

[Banedon]

''It's hard to be good all year, I don't care who you are,'' Baker said of Murton overcoming his slump. ''That one month he didn't drive in runs was his difficult period. But guys find their second wind. And it's how we use them. He doesn't get down, and other guys are playing well, too.''

 

don't pull anything patting yourself on the back, dusty.

 

''If anyone is finding himself, it's Pagan,'' Baker said. ''He found his stroke quickly after being out for so long [since April 16]. He's got almost as many homers as Murton [four to Murton's six] in fewer at-bats. It's easy to play both of them when they're both doing well. They're both bringing something to the table we can use.''

 

:pukel:

 

There is nothing wrong with this comment at all. He is giving Murton a compliment by saying he has struggled at times but found himself for a strong second half run while complimenting Pagan, too. Oh my...the humanity.

 

I realize most people here don't like Baker and want him gone, but don't try to find reasons to criticize unfairly.

 

I agree that sometimes the piling on of Baker is a little over the top. In this case, I'm not so sure it isn't justified though. I would like to know the context of the comments, but it sure seems what he is saying here is 'Murton is coming around thanks to the way we use him, Pagan on the other hand is the truly talented one.'

Then why use the word "and"?

 

It seems clear that he is saying that Murton fought through the down period successfully and how he was used also helped. Wouldn't one have to ignore the fact that Baker said the word "and" in order to think that he was taking all of the credit for turning Murton around?

 

Since we're picking on word usage, did anyone use the word "all" before you mentioned it?

 

The point is that Baker loves to blame the kids for their own failures, and loves to get in some credit for when they turn it around. If you're ok with that...fine...it just seems a little slimy to some of us.

[CubsWin]

''It's hard to be good all year, I don't care who you are,'' Baker said of Murton overcoming his slump. ''That one month he didn't drive in runs was his difficult period. But guys find their second wind. And it's how we use them. He doesn't get down, and other guys are playing well, too.''

 

don't pull anything patting yourself on the back, dusty.

 

''If anyone is finding himself, it's Pagan,'' Baker said. ''He found his stroke quickly after being out for so long [since April 16]. He's got almost as many homers as Murton [four to Murton's six] in fewer at-bats. It's easy to play both of them when they're both doing well. They're both bringing something to the table we can use.''

 

:pukel:

 

There is nothing wrong with this comment at all. He is giving Murton a compliment by saying he has struggled at times but found himself for a strong second half run while complimenting Pagan, too. Oh my...the humanity.

 

I realize most people here don't like Baker and want him gone, but don't try to find reasons to criticize unfairly.

 

I agree that sometimes the piling on of Baker is a little over the top. In this case, I'm not so sure it isn't justified though. I would like to know the context of the comments, but it sure seems what he is saying here is 'Murton is coming around thanks to the way we use him, Pagan on the other hand is the truly talented one.'

Then why use the word "and"?

 

It seems clear that he is saying that Murton fought through the down period successfully and how he was used also helped. Wouldn't one have to ignore the fact that Baker said the word "and" in order to think that he was taking all of the credit for turning Murton around?

 

Since we're picking on word usage, did anyone use the word "all" before you mentioned it?

Yes, otherwise I wouldn't have said it myself.

It scares me he's so quick to praise pagan and put down Murton. When Pagan does well, its obvious and expected...however Murton is only doing well because where "we put him", like Murton has nothing to do with it. What's Baker's problem with Murton?

 

The point is that Baker loves to blame the kids for their own failures, and loves to get in some credit for when they turn it around. If you're ok with that...fine...it just seems a little slimy to some of us.

The point also is that when exceedingly benign quotes like this one are somehow in the minds of some beholders turned into evidence that he "loves to blame the kids for their own failures" then the argument that he actually does blame the kids and take credit that isn't his looks pretty weak.

[A New Era]

''It's hard to be good all year, I don't care who you are,'' Baker said of Murton overcoming his slump. ''That one month he didn't drive in runs was his difficult period. But guys find their second wind. And it's how we use them. He doesn't get down, and other guys are playing well, too.''

 

don't pull anything patting yourself on the back, dusty.

 

''If anyone is finding himself, it's Pagan,'' Baker said. ''He found his stroke quickly after being out for so long [since April 16]. He's got almost as many homers as Murton [four to Murton's six] in fewer at-bats. It's easy to play both of them when they're both doing well. They're both bringing something to the table we can use.''

 

:pukel:

 

It scares me he's so quick to praise pagan and put down Murton. When Pagan does well, its obvious and expected...however Murton is only doing well because where "we put him", like Murton has nothing to do with it. What's Baker's problem with Murton?

 

He's white?

[CubsWin]

''It's hard to be good all year, I don't care who you are,'' Baker said of Murton overcoming his slump. ''That one month he didn't drive in runs was his difficult period. But guys find their second wind. And it's how we use them. He doesn't get down, and other guys are playing well, too.''

 

don't pull anything patting yourself on the back, dusty.

 

''If anyone is finding himself, it's Pagan,'' Baker said. ''He found his stroke quickly after being out for so long [since April 16]. He's got almost as many homers as Murton [four to Murton's six] in fewer at-bats. It's easy to play both of them when they're both doing well. They're both bringing something to the table we can use.''

 

:pukel:

 

It scares me he's so quick to praise pagan and put down Murton. When Pagan does well, its obvious and expected...however Murton is only doing well because where "we put him", like Murton has nothing to do with it. What's Baker's problem with Murton?

 

He's white?

I appreciate the question mark. But so is Barrett and a lot of other players that Baker plays with regularity.

[MembersOnlyJacket]

Baker assumes Murton is supposed to be a power hitter right now. There is no development stage with Murton in Dusty's eyes because Matt hit 7 HR's in limited AB's last year and hasn't come up to that level this season. Now that Murton is slugging the ball all over the park we get the whole sermon about how Dusty uses his guys. Nevin would still be in the outfield had Lee not gone down and Walker traded.

 

You don't get lucky and find guys like Murton with excellent zone hitting ability, + power potential, acceptable glove, good speed. The Cubs have a player who can play every day in this league and be a solid .290/.360/.480 type player if they let him develop at this level. Pagan is fast, has some pop, and plays a good outfield. He's a perfect 4th outfielder. Murton should be in AAA right now or a rookie based on his development schedule and he's out performing half the ballclub.

[CubsWin]

Baker assumes Murton is supposed to be a power hitter right now. There is no development stage with Murton in Dusty's eyes because Matt hit 7 HR's in limited AB's last year and hasn't come up to that level this season. Now that Murton is slugging the ball all over the park we get the whole sermon about how Dusty uses his guys. Nevin would still be in the outfield had Lee not gone down and Walker traded.

 

You don't get lucky and find guys like Murton with excellent zone hitting ability, + power potential, acceptable glove, good speed. The Cubs have a player who can play every day in this league and be a solid .290/.360/.480 type player if they let him develop at this level. Pagan is fast, has some pop, and plays a good outfield. He's a perfect 4th outfielder. Murton should be in AAA right now or a rookie based on his development schedule and he's out performing half the ballclub.

I agree, well said.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Problem is that there isn't any indication Murton is going to develop that power. For comparison, he could only get a .190 IsoP against college players with an aluminum bat, then was at .150 for over 1100 Minor League PA's. I don't think these extra bases are going to pop out of nowhere, considering that he wasn't especially young(but certainly not old) for his levels.

[bhogg]

In a perfect world, we'd have a good CF and a good RF, which would allow Murton and Pagan to battle each other for the final OF spot :(

[A New Era]

''It's hard to be good all year, I don't care who you are,'' Baker said of Murton overcoming his slump. ''That one month he didn't drive in runs was his difficult period. But guys find their second wind. And it's how we use them. He doesn't get down, and other guys are playing well, too.''

 

don't pull anything patting yourself on the back, dusty.

 

''If anyone is finding himself, it's Pagan,'' Baker said. ''He found his stroke quickly after being out for so long [since April 16]. He's got almost as many homers as Murton [four to Murton's six] in fewer at-bats. It's easy to play both of them when they're both doing well. They're both bringing something to the table we can use.''

 

:pukel:

 

It scares me he's so quick to praise pagan and put down Murton. When Pagan does well, its obvious and expected...however Murton is only doing well because where "we put him", like Murton has nothing to do with it. What's Baker's problem with Murton?

 

He's white?

I appreciate the question mark. But so is Barrett and a lot of other players that Baker plays with regularity.

 

Because he's a white young player who has other options to play his position that can be considered close to his production unlike players like Micheal Barret?

[Wolverineman]

Problem is that there isn't any indication Murton is going to develop that power. For comparison, he could only get a .190 IsoP against college players with an aluminum bat, then was at .150 for over 1100 Minor League PA's. I don't think these extra bases are going to pop out of nowhere, considering that he wasn't especially young(but certainly not old) for his levels.

 

 

While I agree with that, one thing I find fascinating is that Murton is FOURTH in all of baseball in GB%(Behind Luis Castillo, Joey Gathright, and Derek Jeter). Its obviously very hard to hit for power when you hit the ball on the ground nearly 60% of the time.

 

My question to everyone here, how possible is it that Murton could change his swing some? Put some loft into it so he starts hitting the ball in the air? He seems to have quite a bit of strength as it is... I'd think changing his swing some would be more beneficial than harmful... its not like he's super fast and can beat out a lot of infield hits anyway. Thoughts?

[Irrelevant Dude]

''It's hard to be good all year, I don't care who you are,'' Baker said of Murton overcoming his slump. ''That one month he didn't drive in runs was his difficult period. But guys find their second wind. And it's how we use them. He doesn't get down, and other guys are playing well, too.''

 

don't pull anything patting yourself on the back, dusty.

 

''If anyone is finding himself, it's Pagan,'' Baker said. ''He found his stroke quickly after being out for so long [since April 16]. He's got almost as many homers as Murton [four to Murton's six] in fewer at-bats. It's easy to play both of them when they're both doing well. They're both bringing something to the table we can use.''

 

:pukel:

 

It scares me he's so quick to praise pagan and put down Murton. When Pagan does well, its obvious and expected...however Murton is only doing well because where "we put him", like Murton has nothing to do with it. What's Baker's problem with Murton?

 

He's white?

I appreciate the question mark. But so is Barrett and a lot of other players that Baker plays with regularity.

 

Because he's a white young player who has other options to play his position that can be considered close to his production unlike players like Micheal Barret?

 

Oh come on! If that was the case then Neifi would have played over Theriot... err, wait a minute...

[jjgman21]

''It's hard to be good all year, I don't care who you are,'' Baker said of Murton overcoming his slump. ''That one month he didn't drive in runs was his difficult period. But guys find their second wind. And it's how we use them. He doesn't get down, and other guys are playing well, too.''

 

don't pull anything patting yourself on the back, dusty.

 

''If anyone is finding himself, it's Pagan,'' Baker said. ''He found his stroke quickly after being out for so long [since April 16]. He's got almost as many homers as Murton [four to Murton's six] in fewer at-bats. It's easy to play both of them when they're both doing well. They're both bringing something to the table we can use.''

 

:pukel:

 

There is nothing wrong with this comment at all. He is giving Murton a compliment by saying he has struggled at times but found himself for a strong second half run while complimenting Pagan, too. Oh my...the humanity.

 

I realize most people here don't like Baker and want him gone, but don't try to find reasons to criticize unfairly.

 

I agree that sometimes the piling on of Baker is a little over the top. In this case, I'm not so sure it isn't justified though. I would like to know the context of the comments, but it sure seems what he is saying here is 'Murton is coming around thanks to the way we use him, Pagan on the other hand is the truly talented one.'

Then why use the word "and"?

 

It seems clear that he is saying that Murton fought through the down period successfully and how he was used also helped. Wouldn't one have to ignore the fact that Baker said the word "and" in order to think that he was taking all of the credit for turning Murton around?

 

so he's not taking all the credit. he's taking partial credit and that's nonsense. if anything, he should take all the blame for putting Murton in this slump in the first place by preaching aggressiveness.

[CubColtPacer]

 

so he's not taking all the credit. he's taking partial credit and that's nonsense. if anything, he should take all the blame for putting Murton in this slump in the first place by preaching aggressiveness.

 

The funny thing is, I thought somebody would bring this article up by now, but since they didn't, here it is

 

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060806&content_id=1596007&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

 

Some interesting tidbits from Murton

"It's the approach, it's trusting your hands, not trying to do too much," Murton said Sunday. "You're thinking, '[Hit it] through the middle of the field,' and then reacting and not being afraid to be aggressive. I think when you do that and keep your front side in and use your hands the way you're supposed to, the inside pitches aren't hard to get to. But when you do try to do too much, you start jamming yourself."

 

And another one:

"When I'm hitting my best, I'm not thinking about anything," he said. "I'm seeing it and hitting it. I'm not worried about what he's going to throw me, I'm not worried about what the count is or anything. I'm staying aggressive and hitting off the fastball.

 

What does anybody think about those comments from Murton?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Words are meaningless without action. While I think that when players get hot they walk less(because they're smashing the good pitches they get), Murton's shown through his actions to be a patient hitter. On the other hand, most of Baker's nonsense gets reinforced with his baffling decisions.