Article on Baker in Wall St. Journal

[Fro]

The big problem in 2003 is the bullpen was terrible. Borowski was a pretty decent closer that year, but beyond that it was pretty scary. Farns was the Farns, and could blow people away or walk in the go-ahead run for the other team.

[C.C.]

 

Haven't most of Prior injuries been fluke injuries or non arm related? I agree that Baker rode Prior and Wood, but any manager would do the exact same thing. You have a chance to get to the WS, you do whatever it takes. I'm not defending Baker as a great manager. In fact I can't stand the guy! But I don't fault him for 2003. We had a chance to get to the WS and for me there was no next year at the time...

 

There were many instances where Baker left them in games when the Cubs had a comfortable lead, to throw well in excess of 100+ pitches. I agree there are times when you ride your aces, especially in tight games and coming down the stretch in a pennant race. But when you are up by more than 3 runs heading into the 7th inning, you don't leave your ace in there and wear them out for their next starts.

 

Don't forget our pen gave up a ton of leads in 2003 also. Look guys we could go round and round with this but to fully blame Baker of all of Wood's problems I just don't agree on. No need to argue futher...

[NCCubFan]

Look guys we could go round and round with this but to fully blame Baker of all of Wood's problems I just don't agree on. No need to argue futher...

I don't think people are FULLY blaming Baker, but rather saying that his abuse is ONE contributing factor to his subsequent injury problems. And that I don't think you could dispute.

[USSoccer]

 

Haven't most of Prior injuries been fluke injuries or non arm related? I agree that Baker rode Prior and Wood, but any manager would do the exact same thing. You have a chance to get to the WS, you do whatever it takes. I'm not defending Baker as a great manager. In fact I can't stand the guy! But I don't fault him for 2003. We had a chance to get to the WS and for me there was no next year at the time...

 

There were many instances where Baker left them in games when the Cubs had a comfortable lead, to throw well in excess of 100+ pitches. I agree there are times when you ride your aces, especially in tight games and coming down the stretch in a pennant race. But when you are up by more than 3 runs heading into the 7th inning, you don't leave your ace in there and wear them out for their next starts.

 

Don't forget our pen gave up a ton of leads in 2003 also. Look guys we could go round and round with this but to fully blame Baker of all of Wood's problems I just don't agree on. No need to argue futher...

 

Oh, don't worry. I could argue that too. Baker managed a 90 win team to 88 wins. He consistently used his bullpen improperly. Have you forgotten all the time Remlinger would be used improperly in regards to his splits? Dave Veres had reverse splits, too. Alfonseca would be used in the wrong spots. He would use Farnsworth over and over early, and by August he was burnt out.

[C.C.]

Look guys we could go round and round with this but to fully blame Baker of all of Wood's problems I just don't agree on. No need to argue futher...

I don't think people are FULLY blaming Baker, but rather saying that his abuse is ONE contributing factor to his subsequent injury problems. And that I don't think you could dispute.

 

It's "one" of the contributing factors? Yep! There are many contributing factors for Kerry Wood's injuries. Where do you even start?

[baseball7897]

Let's face it Kerry Wood was due to break down, it's a matter of time.

 

No.

 

You are sure of that? See my point is all of this is arbitrary! You can't assume for a fact that Baker was the reason for these guys breaking down? Sure I agree 140 pitches in a inning is just way too much, but Wood mechanics being flawed from that start can't be ignored.

 

I don't think it is arbitrary at all. I think it shows a direct correlation between how they were overused in 2003 and the problems suffered since. In 2003 Prior and Wood combined for 32 wins, since then they have 30. What other LOGICAL explanation is there?

 

Haven't most of Prior injuries been fluke injuries?

 

Even when he has been healthy, he has not been the same pitcher that he was in 2003. I believe this may be partially due to his "freak" injuries, but it hasn't helped that Dusty continued to abuse him through those same injuries.

 

Prior's 05 season seems to go under the radar.

 

Made 27 starts. Would of made over 30, if it wasnt for the line drive off the elbow. Won 11 games, had a 3.67 era. He had I want to say 3 bad starts last year, that kept his era near 4, otherwise it was near 2.90. Pitched 166 innings. Would of been more if he didnt miss that month. Prior gave up less hits than innings pitched, and struckout 188 Batters.

[Caryatid]

 

Haven't most of Prior injuries been fluke injuries or non arm related? I agree that Baker rode Prior and Wood, but any manager would do the exact same thing. You have a chance to get to the WS, you do whatever it takes. I'm not defending Baker as a great manager. In fact I can't stand the guy! But I don't fault him for 2003. We had a chance to get to the WS and for me there was no next year at the time...

 

There were many instances where Baker left them in games when the Cubs had a comfortable lead, to throw well in excess of 100+ pitches. I agree there are times when you ride your aces, especially in tight games and coming down the stretch in a pennant race. But when you are up by more than 3 runs heading into the 7th inning, you don't leave your ace in there and wear them out for their next starts.

 

Don't forget our pen gave up a ton of leads in 2003 also. Look guys we could go round and round with this but to fully blame Baker of all of Wood's problems I just don't agree on. No need to argue futher...

 

Borowski, Farsworth, Remlinger, and Guthrie all had ERAs under 3.65. They didn't blow very many games-Alfonseca is the only one who was problematic.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Borowski, Farsworth, Remlinger, and Guthrie all had ERAs under 3.65. They didn't blow very many games-Alfonseca is the only one who was problematic.

 

ERA+

Borowski 161

Farnsworth 129

Remlinger 116

Guthrie 155

Alfonseca 73

[UBlink]

Here's a link, but it's subscription only:

 

Link

 

Here's the quote for the suits:

 

Even if the Cubs fire Mr. Baker, Mr. Prior (0-4, 6.60 ERA this season) still went from being a highly valuable trade commodity to just another sore-armed pitcher, and free-agent Mr. Wood, now on the disabled list, has likely thrown his last pitch for the Cubs. Mr. Zambrano also seems poised to fall victim to Mr. Baker's tendencies. And despite any carping about his lineup-making or bullpen-managing skills, Mr. Hargrove has been smart enough to keep the Mariners' prize pitching prospect, Felix Hernandez, on a 100-pitch limit.

 

So while Mr. Hargrove's other in-game moves are amusing fodder for blogs and sports radio, they're not likely to make much difference in the team's fate. His enduring legacy is likely to be the care he took with the organization's most valuable asset.

 

Maximizing and protecting the value of corporate assets is something they can understand.

[badger1679666666]

Here's a link, but it's subscription only:

 

Link

 

Here's the quote for the suits:

 

Even if the Cubs fire Mr. Baker, Mr. Prior (0-4, 6.60 ERA this season) still went from being a highly valuable trade commodity to just another sore-armed pitcher, and free-agent Mr. Wood, now on the disabled list, has likely thrown his last pitch for the Cubs. Mr. Zambrano also seems poised to fall victim to Mr. Baker's tendencies. And despite any carping about his lineup-making or bullpen-managing skills, Mr. Hargrove has been smart enough to keep the Mariners' prize pitching prospect, Felix Hernandez, on a 100-pitch limit.

 

So while Mr. Hargrove's other in-game moves are amusing fodder for blogs and sports radio, they're not likely to make much difference in the team's fate. His enduring legacy is likely to be the care he took with the organization's most valuable asset.

 

Maximizing and protecting the value of corporate assets is something they can understand.

 

Your post makes me hate Baker with all the possible spite I can muster in my body. The things I would say to him if I had a chance....

[Jerry Mumphrey]

Now that I finally have membership, allow me to pick an old scab.

 

The moment that many Cub fans, including myself, realized the level of complete idiocy the Cubs were paying millions for for in Dusty Baker was Game 2 of the 2003 NLCS. A young Mark Prior was getting worked exceptionally hard since he came back from injury and here Dusty runs him out with an 8-run lead in the 6th inning. That moment drew a few wha???'s around Chicago, but when he runs him out agin for the 7th up 12-0 the whole stadium was befuddled. That move was embarrasing in its ineptitude. Everyone in Wrigley was starting to worry about his arm. As a fan, it did not feel good to watch. And if even the fans were growing concerned about his stamina for future games, you can bet it had gotten in Prior's head too. You don't think Prior was thinking about those pointless innings during the meltdown of game 6? "Fan intereference and now an error, great now I get to throw even more pitches!"

[CuseCubFan69]

Bakers a stubburn man and will never admit to doing anything wrong. Cruz shouldn't have even been on the playoff roster if he can't hold a 12-0 lead for a few innings.