2B in 2007

[Ding Dong Johnson]

"Defense means very, very, very little in baseball. Pitching and hitting. That's what wins, in that order."

 

C'mon! Without good defense you aren't going to have good pitching. For a pitcher to be good he needs a good defense behind him. What wins in baseball is Pitching, Hitting and Defense. You have to have all three.

 

Our defense wasn't bad. Our offense sucks. Hendry tried to improve the wrong thing once again.

[frostwyrm]

Going from Cedeno to Izturis isn't that big a leap.

 

It's a very big leap. How many plays did Cedeno botch up this year? He's got 16 errors in 98 games this year. Izturis is superior to Cedeno at SS. I think Cedeno will fit well at the 2b position. Again lets just let the season play out...

Then why not just let Neifi be the starting SS? Where's the need for Izturis when Neifi is under contract for 2007?

 

Because Izturis will be better defensively and offensively in 2007. He's been better in 2006 even coming off his injury, and he will probably improve slightly, while Neifi will continue to decline. Neifi's range is much more limited, which makes him a much better defensive second baseman than shortstop right now.

You have a pretty low opinion of Neifi.

[CubColtPacer]

"Defense means very, very, very little in baseball. Pitching and hitting. That's what wins, in that order."

 

C'mon! Without good defense you aren't going to have good pitching. For a pitcher to be good he needs a good defense behind him. What wins in baseball is Pitching, Hitting and Defense. You have to have all three.

 

Our defense wasn't bad. Our offense sucks. Hendry tried to improve the wrong thing once again.

 

True, but sometimes you have to make the moves when you can get them. He got a chance to improve the defense (and a smaller improvement on offense) now. That leaves the offseason to improve the offense-we weren't going to get a shortstop anyway, so we can still improve the team on offense in the positions we were already going to.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

"Defense means very, very, very little in baseball. Pitching and hitting. That's what wins, in that order."

 

C'mon! Without good defense you aren't going to have good pitching. For a pitcher to be good he needs a good defense behind him. What wins in baseball is Pitching, Hitting and Defense. You have to have all three.

 

Our defense wasn't bad. Our offense sucks. Hendry tried to improve the wrong thing once again.

 

True, but sometimes you have to make the moves when you can get them. He got a chance to improve the defense (and a smaller improvement on offense) now. That leaves the offseason to improve the offense-we weren't going to get a shortstop anyway, so we can still improve the team on offense in the positions we were already going to.

 

The defensive upgrade is not significant enough to make up for the fact that our offense lost Todd Walker and gained Cesar Izturis.

[CubColtPacer]

True, but we would have traded Walker anyway even if we got Izturis, and if we had wanted to sign Walker this offseason, we still could. So for 2007, the choice at shortstop is Izturis or Cedeno. If you replace Walker with Cedeno permanantly in 2007, that will be the bigger problem for the offense.

[C.C.]

"Defense means very, very, very little in baseball. Pitching and hitting. That's what wins, in that order."

 

C'mon! Without good defense you aren't going to have good pitching. For a pitcher to be good he needs a good defense behind him. What wins in baseball is Pitching, Hitting and Defense. You have to have all three.

 

Our defense wasn't bad. Our offense sucks. Hendry tried to improve the wrong thing once again.

 

True, but sometimes you have to make the moves when you can get them. He got a chance to improve the defense (and a smaller improvement on offense) now. That leaves the offseason to improve the offense-we weren't going to get a shortstop anyway, so we can still improve the team on offense in the positions we were already going to.

 

The defensive upgrade is not significant enough to make up for the fact that our offense lost Todd Walker and gained Cesar Izturis.

 

We'll address the need for offense in the offseason. I didn't see anyone offering us anything to address our need for offense for Maddux. What kind of impact offense player do you think Maddux could bring us?

[C.C.]

True, but we would have traded Walker anyway even if we got Izturis, and if we had wanted to sign Walker this offseason, we still could. So for 2007, the choice at shortstop is Izturis or Cedeno. If you replace Walker with Cedeno permanantly in 2007, that will be the bigger problem for the offense.

 

Well that all depends who you add in the offseason.

[A New Era]

"Defense means very, very, very little in baseball. Pitching and hitting. That's what wins, in that order."

 

C'mon! Without good defense you aren't going to have good pitching. For a pitcher to be good he needs a good defense behind him. What wins in baseball is Pitching, Hitting and Defense. You have to have all three.

 

Our defense wasn't bad. Our offense sucks. Hendry tried to improve the wrong thing once again.

 

He needs pitching and offense now. In that order. He get's the off-season to improve this team offensively and pitchingly. :lol:

[Ding Dong Johnson]

We'll address the need for offense in the offseason. I didn't see anyone offering us anything to address our need for offense for Maddux. What kind of impact offense player do you think Maddux could bring us?

 

We all knew Maddux would not net an impact player. Trading him for something redundant is stupid especially when that redundancy will cost around $5 next year and the GM is glowing at the thought of having him for a few years".

[CubColtPacer]

"Defense means very, very, very little in baseball. Pitching and hitting. That's what wins, in that order."

 

C'mon! Without good defense you aren't going to have good pitching. For a pitcher to be good he needs a good defense behind him. What wins in baseball is Pitching, Hitting and Defense. You have to have all three.

 

Our defense wasn't bad. Our offense sucks. Hendry tried to improve the wrong thing once again.

 

True, but sometimes you have to make the moves when you can get them. He got a chance to improve the defense (and a smaller improvement on offense) now. That leaves the offseason to improve the offense-we weren't going to get a shortstop anyway, so we can still improve the team on offense in the positions we were already going to.

 

The defensive upgrade is not significant enough to make up for the fact that our offense lost Todd Walker and gained Cesar Izturis.

 

We'll address the need for offense in the offseason. I didn't see anyone offering us anything to address our need for offense for Maddux. What kind of impact offense player do you think Maddux could bring us?

 

Exactly..bruce just confirmed in the discussions thread that the Dodgers said no to a deal involving prospects, and that Hendry was looking for prospects first-it's under the one that has the title of Bruce's latest article. So it was the choice of keeping Maddux or adding Izturis-we weren't going to get any other players for him.

[C.C.]

We'll address the need for offense in the offseason. I didn't see anyone offering us anything to address our need for offense for Maddux. What kind of impact offense player do you think Maddux could bring us?

 

We all knew Maddux would not net an impact player. Trading him for something redundant is stupid especially when that redundancy will cost around $5 next year and the GM is glowing at the thought of having him for a few years".

 

A 26 year old gold glove that hasn't hit his ceiling is not redundancy. Neifi isn't getting any younger, and right now the only strength of this club is decent defense and a good bullpen. With this deal the Defense is better. So what's the harm in that? With Iz at short and Cedeno at 2nd you have a rock solid Defense that has mad range! If you add bat for LF and at least 1 more starter you might have something.

 

Let's stop the Neifi = Iz comparasions...Neifi has lost at least two steps at SS.

[A New Era]

We'll address the need for offense in the offseason. I didn't see anyone offering us anything to address our need for offense for Maddux. What kind of impact offense player do you think Maddux could bring us?

 

We all knew Maddux would not net an impact player. Trading him for something redundant is stupid especially when that redundancy will cost around $5 next year and the GM is glowing at the thought of having him for a few years".

 

$4.25

[C.C.]

"Defense means very, very, very little in baseball. Pitching and hitting."

 

Tell that to the White Sox who won a WS on Pitching and Defense. Their team BA was .262 with a .322 OBP and yet they managed to win a WS.

[abuck1220]

"Defense means very, very, very little in baseball. Pitching and hitting."

 

Tell that to the White Sox who won a WS on Pitching and Defense. Their team BA was .262 with a .322 OBP and yet they managed to win a WS.

 

they hit a crapload of homers.

[C.C.]

"Defense means very, very, very little in baseball. Pitching and hitting."

 

Tell that to the White Sox who won a WS on Pitching and Defense. Their team BA was .262 with a .322 OBP and yet they managed to win a WS.

 

they hit a crapload of homers.

 

But their strength was Pitching and Defense. They won that WS on those two things. They scored just enough to win games, but no means where they a good offense.

[CubColtPacer]

"Defense means very, very, very little in baseball. Pitching and hitting."

 

Tell that to the White Sox who won a WS on Pitching and Defense. Their team BA was .262 with a .322 OBP and yet they managed to win a WS.

 

they hit a crapload of homers.

 

True..but they had 200 HR to our 194. They had a .262 AVG with a .322 OBP while we had a .270 AVG with a .324 OBP. So what was the difference between the two teams offensively?

 

Edited: I accidentally spelled OBP OPB. Oops!

Edited August 1, 2006 by CubColtPacer

[Pickle]

"Defense means very, very, very little in baseball. Pitching and hitting."

 

Tell that to the White Sox who won a WS on Pitching and Defense. Their team BA was .262 with a .322 OBP and yet they managed to win a WS.

 

they hit a crapload of homers.

 

True..but they had 200 HR to our 194. They had a .262 AVG with a .322 OPB while we had a .270 AVG with a .324 OBP. So what was the difference between the two teams offensively?

 

The difference must be in the clutch hitting because defense means very, very, very little.

[Chocolate Milk]

"Defense means very, very, very little in baseball. Pitching and hitting."

 

Tell that to the White Sox who won a WS on Pitching and Defense. Their team BA was .262 with a .322 OBP and yet they managed to win a WS.

 

they hit a crapload of homers.

 

True..but they had 200 HR to our 194. They had a .262 AVG with a .322 OPB while we had a .270 AVG with a .324 OBP. So what was the difference between the two teams offensively?

 

The difference must be in the clutch hitting because defense means very, very, very little.

 

Yeah, that or exceptional pitching. I'll go with the pitching myself.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Their pitching may have had a lot to do with it.

[Chocolate Milk]

Their pitching may have had a lot to do with it.

 

Nope. The only difference between the 2005 Cubs and the 2005 White Sox was defense.

[C.C.]

"Defense means very, very, very little in baseball. Pitching and hitting."

 

Tell that to the White Sox who won a WS on Pitching and Defense. Their team BA was .262 with a .322 OBP and yet they managed to win a WS.

 

they hit a crapload of homers.

 

True..but they had 200 HR to our 194. They had a .262 AVG with a .322 OPB while we had a .270 AVG with a .324 OBP. So what was the difference between the two teams offensively?

 

The difference must be in the clutch hitting because defense means very, very, very little.

 

Honestly, that's the first time I've heard that Defense means very little in baseball. In fact it's crazy. You can go back to the 2004 Red Sox when they upgraded their defense they went on to a WS title. Defense is hugely important! I can't believe you really believe that?

[C.C.]

Their pitching may have had a lot to do with it.

 

Pitching and defense. They go hand in hand. In order to have good pitching you have to have a good defense behind them. How many runs did Crede save with his glove at 3rd in the playoffs?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

"Defense means very, very, very little in baseball. Pitching and hitting."

 

Tell that to the White Sox who won a WS on Pitching and Defense. Their team BA was .262 with a .322 OBP and yet they managed to win a WS.

 

they hit a crapload of homers.

 

True..but they had 200 HR to our 194. They had a .262 AVG with a .322 OPB while we had a .270 AVG with a .324 OBP. So what was the difference between the two teams offensively?

 

The difference must be in the clutch hitting because defense means very, very, very little.

 

Honestly, that's the first time I've heard that Defense means very little in baseball. In fact it's crazy. You can go back to the 2004 Red Sox when they upgraded their defense they went on to a WS title. Defense is hugely important! I can't believe you really believe that?

 

It was a whole lot more than their defense.

If you don't believe me

[abuck1220]

"Defense means very, very, very little in baseball. Pitching and hitting."

 

Tell that to the White Sox who won a WS on Pitching and Defense. Their team BA was .262 with a .322 OBP and yet they managed to win a WS.

 

they hit a crapload of homers.

 

True..but they had 200 HR to our 194. They had a .262 AVG with a .322 OPB while we had a .270 AVG with a .324 OBP. So what was the difference between the two teams offensively?

 

The difference must be in the clutch hitting because defense means very, very, very little.

 

Honestly, that's the first time I've heard that Defense means very little in baseball. In fact it's crazy. You can go back to the 2004 Red Sox when they upgraded their defense they went on to a WS title. Defense is hugely important! I can't believe you really believe that?

 

yeah, because that red sox team was TERRIBLE until they got doug m and cabrera.

[C.C.]

"Defense means very, very, very little in baseball. Pitching and hitting."

 

Tell that to the White Sox who won a WS on Pitching and Defense. Their team BA was .262 with a .322 OBP and yet they managed to win a WS.

 

they hit a crapload of homers.

 

True..but they had 200 HR to our 194. They had a .262 AVG with a .322 OPB while we had a .270 AVG with a .324 OBP. So what was the difference between the two teams offensively?

 

The difference must be in the clutch hitting because defense means very, very, very little.

 

Honestly, that's the first time I've heard that Defense means very little in baseball. In fact it's crazy. You can go back to the 2004 Red Sox when they upgraded their defense they went on to a WS title. Defense is hugely important! I can't believe you really believe that?

 

It was a whole lot more than their defense.

If you don't believe me

 

Then why did they trade to upgrade their defense if defense doesn't matter much?