Never before have I been so anxious for the offseason....

[goonys evil twin]

Nevin gives the team the best chance to win right now.

 

There is no support for that argument. Nevin sucks right now. If you insist on talking about right now, you have to look at right now, and Nevin is doing nothing right now. He's playing against RHP and LHP, even though Murton hits better against LHP. Nevin has shown, conclusively, that he's not an everyday player. He's a bench player. The best way he can help the team is by coming off the bench late, and by occasionally starting. Playing everyday for 3 weeks is an incredibly stupid way to use an old man who has sucked for 2 years as a starter.

[Derwood]

Baker thinks Nevin gives the team the best chance to win right now.

 

Here Goony, I fixed it for you

[bleedcubbieblue]

[Nevin sucks right now

 

Please, attack the post, not the players! :lol:

 

This is starting to sound a little like the deck chairs on the Titanic, which of those chairs was the best one? Where did it look the best again?

 

BCB

[Warren Brusstar]

Don't give me the attack the poster crap, you decided to talk about ignorance.

 

I was attacking the ignorance of the idea. At no point in this thread have I said anything about you. I'd appreciate the same treatment from you.

 

Nevin's career is enough to justify not playing him everyday right now.

 

Agreed.

 

Somebody said he's driving in runs and giving the Cubs a better chance right now, and that's just not true.

 

As to the latter, and at least against RHP, yes it is.

 

Murton v. RHP - .603 OPS

Nevin v. RHP - .732 OPS

 

You decided to talk about just against RHP, but that's not the discussion. Nevin has faced lefties this past week.

 

Unless human phsyiology has somehow changed without my knowing, there are still only two types of pitchers. So, any discussion regarding whether Nevin or Murton gives the Cubs a better chance has two necessary components -- Nevin and Murton v. RHP and Nevin and Murton v. LHP.

 

So, it seems to me that discussing whether Nevin or Murton gives the Cubs a better chance v. RHP is a fairly important component of this discussion.

 

 

Furthermore, you need to let kids fight through tough stretches as they develop.

 

You must have missed the part where I said that "if Murton plays every game for the rest of the season, you won't hear a peep from me." I don't have any problem with the notion that playing Murton right now is in the best long term interest of the organization. I don't think it's right, however, to pretend that Murton -- right now -- is better against RHP than Nevin. He's not.

Edited June 30, 2006 by Warren Brusstar

[goonys evil twin]

[Nevin sucks right now

 

Please, attack the post, not the players! :lol:

 

This is starting to sound a little like the deck chairs on the Titanic, which of those chairs was the best one? Where did it look the best again?

 

BCB

 

The lounge chair on the port side, you know the one that couldn't recline all the way but was at least stuck in a somewhat comfortable position.

[soccer10k]

Nevin gives the team the best chance to win right now.

 

There is no support for that argument. Nevin sucks right now. If you insist on talking about right now, you have to look at right now, and Nevin is doing nothing right now. He's playing against RHP and LHP, even though Murton hits better against LHP. Nevin has shown, conclusively, that he's not an everyday player. He's a bench player. The best way he can help the team is by coming off the bench late, and by occasionally starting. Playing everyday for 3 weeks is an incredibly stupid way to use an old man who has sucked for 2 years as a starter.

 

Looked at the stats and I now agree with you completely - I didn't realize Nevin was hitting so poorly (that's what happens when you stop following the team as religiously). I could only make an argument to play Nevin against RHP (which I'm not going to because it's a tossup between the two) but Murton should, without a doubt, be the one to face LHP if Dusty wanted to implement a platoon.

 

I still agree that Murton should be the everyday player and this makes me want Dusty to trade Nevin even more. Nevermind the fact that he's not part of the solution in the future but he's taking away PT from Murton as well.

[soccer10k]

Baker thinks Nevin gives the team the best chance to win right now.

 

Here Goony, I fixed it for you

 

I did say that in my original post:

 

But the way Dusty sees it, Nevin is his guy.

 

But I have been corrected thanks to goony and some stats.

[goonys evil twin]

Don't give me the attack the poster crap, you decided to talk about ignorance.

 

I was attacking the ignorance of the idea. At no point in this thread have I said anything about you. I'd appreciate the same treatment from you.

 

Nevin's career is enough to justify not playing him everyday right now.

 

Agreed.

 

Somebody said he's driving in runs and giving the Cubs a better chance right now, and that's just not true.

 

As to the latter, and at least against RHP, yes it is.

 

Murton v. RHP - .603 OPS

Nevin v. RHP - .732 OPS

 

You decided to talk about just against RHP, but that's not the discussion. Nevin has faced lefties this past week.

 

Unless human phsyiology has somehow changed without my knowing, there are still only two types of pitchers. So, any discussion regarding whether Nevin or Murton gives the Cubs a better chance has two necessary components -- Nevin and Murton v. RHP and Nevin and Murton v. LHP.

 

So, it seems to me that discussing whether Nevin or Murton gives the Cubs a better chance v. RHP is a fairly important component of this discussion.

 

 

Furthermore, you need to let kids fight through tough stretches as they develop.

 

You must have missed the part where I said that "if Murton plays every game for the rest of the season, you won't hear a peep from me." I don't have any problem with the notion that playing Murton right now is in the best long term interest of the organization. I don't think it's right, however, to pretend that Murton -- right now -- is better against RHP than Nevin. He's not.

 

Why do you insist on only talking about RHP? It's absurd.

 

I'm not arguing who is better against RHP. I am arguing against the uninformed idea that Nevin gives the Cubs a better chance to win by playing right now, against everybody. They both suck vs RHP. Murton rakes against LHP, while Nevin is okay against LHP (but has been terrible in a Cubs uniform against LHP). If you want to say that a platoon of Murton and Nevin gives the Cubs the best chance to win, well go right ahead. But you can't say starting Nevin everyday gives them the best chance to win. And you can't concentrate exclusively on the against RHP split, which is what you are doing.

[Warren Brusstar]

Don't give me the attack the poster crap, you decided to talk about ignorance.

 

I was attacking the ignorance of the idea. At no point in this thread have I said anything about you. I'd appreciate the same treatment from you.

 

Nevin's career is enough to justify not playing him everyday right now.

 

Agreed.

 

Somebody said he's driving in runs and giving the Cubs a better chance right now, and that's just not true.

 

As to the latter, and at least against RHP, yes it is.

 

Murton v. RHP - .603 OPS

Nevin v. RHP - .732 OPS

 

You decided to talk about just against RHP, but that's not the discussion. Nevin has faced lefties this past week.

 

Unless human phsyiology has somehow changed without my knowing, there are still only two types of pitchers. So, any discussion regarding whether Nevin or Murton gives the Cubs a better chance has two necessary components -- Nevin and Murton v. RHP and Nevin and Murton v. LHP.

 

So, it seems to me that discussing whether Nevin or Murton gives the Cubs a better chance v. RHP is a fairly important component of this discussion.

 

 

Furthermore, you need to let kids fight through tough stretches as they develop.

 

You must have missed the part where I said that "if Murton plays every game for the rest of the season, you won't hear a peep from me." I don't have any problem with the notion that playing Murton right now is in the best long term interest of the organization. I don't think it's right, however, to pretend that Murton -- right now -- is better against RHP than Nevin. He's not.

 

Why do you insist on only talking about RHP? It's absurd.

 

I'm not arguing who is better against RHP. I am arguing against the uninformed idea that Nevin gives the Cubs a better chance to win by playing right now, against everybody. They both suck vs RHP. Murton rakes against LHP, while Nevin is okay against LHP (but has been terrible in a Cubs uniform against LHP). If you want to say that a platoon of Murton and Nevin gives the Cubs the best chance to win, well go right ahead. But you can't say starting Nevin everyday gives them the best chance to win. And you can't concentrate exclusively on the against RHP split, which is what you are doing.

 

This is quite the two-step you're doing.

 

If you want to say that a platoon of Murton and Nevin gives the Cubs the best chance to win, well go right ahead.

 

That's exactly what I'm saying. Do you agree? If so, thanks!

[Warren Brusstar]

I am arguing against the uninformed idea that Nevin gives the Cubs a better chance to win by playing right now, against everybody.

 

Also, I'd appreciate if you could direct me to any place in this thread in which I've posted anything even resembling this idea.

 

I've consistently demonstrated that Nevin gives the team a better chance than Murton to win v. RHP. And since the Cubs face RHP over 2/3rds of the time, that's a pretty important part of the discussion.

[goonys evil twin]

This is quite the two-step you're doing.

 

If you want to say that a platoon of Murton and Nevin gives the Cubs the best chance to win, well go right ahead.

 

That's exactly what I'm saying. Do you agree? If so, thanks!

 

I'm not doing a two step. I dismissed the idea that Nevin was producing and driving in runs right now. You stepped in and called me ignorant for thinking Murton should be playing more, and then went off on tangents about hitting vs RHP, which I never brought up in the first place.

 

I argued against Nevin full-time, you called me ignorant and said Nevin is better vs RHP. You decided to debate me and then changed the debate. I never strayed from what I was talking about in the first place, there was no two-step. I just think it's absurd to argue that Nevin gives you the best chance to win everyday because he's hit a little less poorly against RHP.

[Warren Brusstar]

I dismissed the idea that Nevin was producing and driving in runs right now. You stepped in and called me ignorant for thinking Murton should be playing more.

 

Really? That's not what I recall. Thankfully, the internets allow us to see my original post:

 

And yet, your tiny one week sample size utterly dwarfs Murton's numbers v. RHP for the entire season. Reasonable persons can differ whether playing Nevin or Murton against RHP is in the long term best interest of the Cub organization. But to pretend that Murton gives this team a better chance to win games right now against RHP is wilful ignorance.

 

Please let me know where I suggested you were ignorant for thinking that Murton should play more. It's absolutely no where in this thread. I've taken issue with only one thing -- the notion that Murton gives team a better chance to win games right now against RHP.

 

 

I never strayed from what I was talking about in the first place, there was no two-step. I just think it's absurd to argue that Nevin gives you the best chance to win everyday because he's hit a little less poorly against RHP

 

OK. So what do you think? Who does give the Cubs a better chance to win v. RHP? Nevin or Murton?

[thedaymen]

I feel sad for those on here that can't wait for the off season. What, do you guys expect that anything will REALLY change with this team?

 

No...but we expect the Bears to win their division at the least.