Can the Cubs be fixed? Here are 6 ideas

[Geech]

A statement like "because he's more productive," when stated by itself with nothing else is one of the most useless statements ever to attempt to prove a point. They mean absolutely nothing and frankly, are just stupid.

 

I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with you Geech, I just wanted to know where the statement came from and if you had anything to back it up. If you do, great post it and prove me wrong. I would like that and would change my view if this was true.

 

He *is* more productive.

 

Carlos Lee has a .301 EQA so far in 2006 and a .280 career while Bobby Abreu has a .320 and .314 respectively.

[soccer10k]

A statement like "because he's more productive," when stated by itself with nothing else is one of the most useless statements ever to attempt to prove a point. They mean absolutely nothing and frankly, are just stupid.

 

I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with you Geech, I just wanted to know where the statement came from and if you had anything to back it up. If you do, great post it and prove me wrong. I would like that and would change my view if this was true.

 

He *is* more productive.

 

Carlos Lee has a .301 EQA so far in 2006 and a .280 career while Bobby Abreu has a .320 and .314 respectively.

 

You'll have to inform me as to what EQA is. And for my own future reference, what site did you get it off of?

[Geech]

You'll have to inform me as to what EQA is. And for my own future reference, what site did you get it off of?

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2596

[goonys evil twin]

Because he's more productive.

 

 

Didn't someone once post a link to a lineup simulator that estimated runs scored based on a given lineup? We might even be able to prove it.

 

A statement like "because he's more productive," when stated by itself with nothing else is one of the most useless statements ever to attempt to prove a point. They mean absolutely nothing and frankly, are just stupid.

 

I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with you Geech, I just wanted to know where the statement came from and if you had anything to back it up. If you do, great post it and prove me wrong. I would like that and would change my view if this was true.

 

I'm glad you find it stupid. It's just fact though. Not opinion. I didn't realize we had to go back and start over with the discussion of what exactly production is.

[soccer10k]

Because he's more productive.

 

 

Didn't someone once post a link to a lineup simulator that estimated runs scored based on a given lineup? We might even be able to prove it.

 

A statement like "because he's more productive," when stated by itself with nothing else is one of the most useless statements ever to attempt to prove a point. They mean absolutely nothing and frankly, are just stupid.

 

I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with you Geech, I just wanted to know where the statement came from and if you had anything to back it up. If you do, great post it and prove me wrong. I would like that and would change my view if this was true.

 

I'm glad you find it stupid. It's just fact though. Not opinion. I didn't realize we had to go back and start over with the discussion of what exactly production is.

 

1. I don't see how the statement "because he's more productive" set by itself is not a fact but an opinion. If you would have backed it up with stats then it becomes less of an opinion and more of a fact. But you didn't.

 

2. I don't know what you consider to be productive or not so expecting me to know that is stupid. You can't expect me to have read every single thread posted on this board. Sure, you may have stated at some point what you look for in a hitter and what a hitter must do for him to be productive in your eyes. But I don't necessarily think that and for you to assume I do is wrong.

 

3. I wasn't trying to be argumentative. Geech said that if you put both Abreu and CLee in the same lineup that Abreu would be more productive. As I stated, I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing, I just wanted to know the basis of this statement, which Geech provided. Your input in this conversation was completely useless and unnecessary based what you contributed.

 

EDIT: Changed the bold from CLee to Abreu because I typed the wrong name.

Edited June 29, 2006 by soccer10k

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Bobby Abreu >>> Carlos Lee

 

When they start their drop-offs (Abreu likely first since he's older):

Bobby Abreu > Carlos Lee

 

How do we know? Abreu is a far superior player to Carlos Lee right now. If Abreu goes on the decline for a year or two while Lee maintains his production, he will still be a better player. The only wildcard is what the cost of acquiring Abreu would be. They will both have similar salaries, both fill a corner OF spot -- why not want the one who is better?

[goonys evil twin]

3. I wasn't trying to be argumentative. Geech said that if you put both Abreu and CLee in the same lineup that CLee would be more productive.

 

No, Abreu is more productive.

 

 

You don't know what production means? I'll give you a hint, I'm not talking about AVG/HR/RBI.

[soccer10k]

3. I wasn't trying to be argumentative. Geech said that if you put both Abreu and CLee in the same lineup that CLee would be more productive.

 

No, Abreu is more productive.

 

 

You don't know what production means? I'll give you a hint, I'm not talking about AVG/HR/RBI.

 

Sorry. My bad. I meant to say that Abreu is more productive. I misquoted Geech on that one. Again, my bad.

[soapy]

Get both and put Jacque in CF. There, now everyone is happy (except for the pitchers).

[Shavo]

Get both and put Jacque in CF. There, now everyone is happy (except for the pitchers).

 

Just say no to Carlos Lee

[CubsBullsBears]

Sign Lee, get rid of Pierre this winter (or trade him if we can find a taker), and then either eat Jones' contract or trade him keep Murton if LF, Lee in RF and bring up Pie to play CF.

[goonys evil twin]

Sign Lee, get rid of Pierre this winter (or trade him if we can find a taker), and then either eat Jones' contract or trade him keep Murton if LF, Lee in RF and bring up Pie to play CF.

 

Eating Jones's contract would not be a good idea. I'm all for trading him. But the point in trading him is that he's overpaid for what he brings to the table, not that he brings nothing to the table. You eat the contracts of guys' whose presence on the team takes away from your squad, ie. Rusch, Neifi, Womack etc. If you are going to pay Jones, you might as well play him. And I'd be all for a Murton/Jones platoon with a good corner OF on the other side.

[CubsBullsBears]

Sign Lee, get rid of Pierre this winter (or trade him if we can find a taker), and then either eat Jones' contract or trade him keep Murton if LF, Lee in RF and bring up Pie to play CF.

 

Eating Jones's contract would not be a good idea. I'm all for trading him. But the point in trading him is that he's overpaid for what he brings to the table, not that he brings nothing to the table. You eat the contracts of guys' whose presence on the team takes away from your squad, ie. Rusch, Neifi, Womack etc. If you are going to pay Jones, you might as well play him. And I'd be all for a Murton/Jones platoon with a good corner OF on the other side.

I'd rather us lose with Murton than w/ Jones. At least Murton is developing. Jones is semi-dead weight IMO, if there is such a thing. :P

[Geech]

I'd rather us lose with Murton than w/ Jones. At least Murton is developing. Jones is semi-dead weight IMO, if there is such a thing. :P

 

Jones is a pretty good hitter vs righties, which is more than we can say for Matt so far.

[goonys evil twin]

I'd rather us lose with Murton than w/ Jones. At least Murton is developing. Jones is semi-dead weight IMO, if there is such a thing. :P

 

Jones is a pretty good hitter vs righties, which is more than we can say for Matt so far.

 

Nevin is the dead weight. He's been awful for most of the year, including the past two weeks.

[Backtobanks]

Sign Lee, get rid of Pierre this winter (or trade him if we can find a taker), and then either eat Jones' contract or trade him keep Murton if LF, Lee in RF and bring up Pie to play CF.

 

Eating Jones's contract would not be a good idea. I'm all for trading him. But the point in trading him is that he's overpaid for what he brings to the table, not that he brings nothing to the table. You eat the contracts of guys' whose presence on the team takes away from your squad, ie. Rusch, Neifi, Womack etc. If you are going to pay Jones, you might as well play him. And I'd be all for a Murton/Jones platoon with a good corner OF on the other side.

 

I guess it would depend on which team acquires Jones and when the trade happens. If it's not worth the Cubs time or money to trade Jones, then I agree that a Jones/Murton platoon in LF and a pickup of Andruw Jones (CF) or CLee (RF) would make for a much more productive OF.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

Sign Lee, get rid of Pierre this winter (or trade him if we can find a taker), and then either eat Jones' contract or trade him keep Murton if LF, Lee in RF and bring up Pie to play CF.

 

Isn't Pierre a free agent?

 

So wouldn't they have to get rid of him before the trading deadline in order to trade him?

[frostwyrm]

EL CABALLO RIDES AGAIN

 

Milwaukee Brewers left fielder Carlos Lee will be a free agent after this season, he loves Chicago and the Cubs have plenty of money to spend. This is the definition of a perfect fit. Lee has a career .310 average (36-for-116) at Wrigley Field with 12 home runs -- his most at any opponent's ballpark.

Laughable reasoning here by De Luca. He wants the Cubs to make a huge financial committment based on 116 at bats. No offense to Mr. Miles, but stuff like this is why I don't think much of the intelligence of the average sportswriter.

[NewUserName]

In the original article it states 6 ideas that would improve the Cubs. IF we would seriously entertain trading Mark Prior I would just suggest that we get Bobby Abreu, which I think could be done if Prior is thrown in the mix. I am not against signing Lee I just think that Abreu would be a better fit(more productive and LH) with the players we already have. Also than Jones and Murton could platoon in LF. Than money not spent on Lee could be used to add pitching.

 

Also CLee does not have more power than Abreu. Abreu has a higher career SLG%. If you go by HRs CLee may be better however the doubles and way higher career obp would easily offset any advantage CLees more hrs would provide. Even if it is a cleanup hitter the Cubs would be better with Abreu. If than by some miracle Walker was resigned and an intelligent manager was added we could have a possible lineup

 

Walker 2b

jones/murton lf

DLee 1b

Abreu rf

ARam 3b

Barrett c

Pie cf

Cedeno ss

 

Than if Zito was signed a rotation of

Z Zito marshall 1 out of collection of youngsters in system and another solid starter added through trade or free agency.

 

I know this leaves the starting pitching staff a little questionable however probably not as questionable as it has been this year. The lineup would be pretty good though with the opportunity to produce and let young players develop. Keep the Bullpen intact and improve the bench and I think we would have something here.

[CubsBullsBears]

Sign Lee, get rid of Pierre this winter (or trade him if we can find a taker), and then either eat Jones' contract or trade him keep Murton if LF, Lee in RF and bring up Pie to play CF.

 

Isn't Pierre a free agent?

 

So wouldn't they have to get rid of him before the trading deadline in order to trade him?

When I said get rid of him this winter, I meant let him walk.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

Sign Lee, get rid of Pierre this winter (or trade him if we can find a taker), and then either eat Jones' contract or trade him keep Murton if LF, Lee in RF and bring up Pie to play CF.

 

Isn't Pierre a free agent?

 

So wouldn't they have to get rid of him before the trading deadline in order to trade him?

When I said get rid of him this winter, I meant let him walk.

 

Gotcha.