Pierre: not as bad as people think?

[Fred Hornkohl]

 

Barrett is clearly the answer. Look at the disparity between our #1 hitters and our opponents. It's disgusting.

 

No, no, no. We need to keep Barrett in the #3 spot; at least until DLee comes back !!

 

Team record by third hitter

 

                    W    L     pct
Barrett             6    5   0.545
Cedeno              0    1   0.000
Lee                 9    5   0.643
Murton              1    0   1.000
Walker             10   25   0.286

Totals             26   36   0.419

[srbin84]

I never thought about blaming the Cubs coaching staff for Pierre's struggles, but it's no less justifiable than blaming them for Patterson's poor performance, so I guess it isn't Juan's fault afterall.

 

Patterson was a young hitter with loads of talent that was never harnessed properly. Pierre is a player with a (bad) established way of hitting where as Corey was young enough to modify his approach.

 

Both broke into the big leagues the same year, and Pierre is 2 years older. I don't see much of a difference.

[Jon]

Both broke into the big leagues the same year, and Pierre is 2 years older. I don't see much of a difference.

Corey had 2,176 career ABs coming into this season, Pierre had 3,411.

[srbin84]

Both broke into the big leagues the same year, and Pierre is 2 years older. I don't see much of a difference.

Corey had 2,176 career ABs coming into this season, Pierre had 3,411.

 

And why did Pierre get more AB's during that time?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Both broke into the big leagues the same year, and Pierre is 2 years older. I don't see much of a difference.

Corey had 2,176 career ABs coming into this season, Pierre had 3,411.

 

And why did Pierre get more AB's during that time?

 

Because he's two years older, spent just about all his time at the leadoff spot, and didn't tear his ACL.

 

And they really didn't break in during the same year. Patterson was a september callup that got 42 at bats. Pierre played 50 games and had 200 AB's, much more similar to Patterson's 2001.

[frostwyrm]

I never thought about blaming the Cubs coaching staff for Pierre's struggles, but it's no less justifiable than blaming them for Patterson's poor performance, so I guess it isn't Juan's fault afterall.

 

Patterson was a young hitter with loads of talent that was never harnessed properly. Pierre is a player with a (bad) established way of hitting where as Corey was young enough to modify his approach.

 

Both broke into the big leagues the same year, and Pierre is 2 years older. I don't see much of a difference.

Pierre's swing is atrocious. There's no way to fix something so fundamentally screwed up. He'd have to forget everything he knows and start from scratch, and he's way too old for that.

[srbin84]

Because he's two years older

 

They were picked in the same draft. Patterson was No. 3 overall and Pierre was picked in the 13th round. They had same amount of minor league experience.

 

spent just about all his time at the leadoff spot

 

No argument there, Pierre is a leadoff hitter.

 

and didn't tear his ACL

 

That explains half a season.

 

The correct answer is that Corey was terrible a lot of the time while Pierre was good.

[Shavo]

I never thought about blaming the Cubs coaching staff for Pierre's struggles, but it's no less justifiable than blaming them for Patterson's poor performance, so I guess it isn't Juan's fault afterall.

 

Patterson was a young hitter with loads of talent that was never harnessed properly. Pierre is a player with a (bad) established way of hitting where as Corey was young enough to modify his approach.

 

Both broke into the big leagues the same year, and Pierre is 2 years older. I don't see much of a difference.

Pierre's swing is atrocious. There's no way to fix something so fundamentally screwed up. He'd have to forget everything he knows and start from scratch, and he's way too old for that.

 

Thats ridiculous. If his swing was so bad, he wouldnt have a career .305 batting average going into this season. It's a combo of aging and a bad eye that has pierre in such a bad hole.

[frostwyrm]

I never thought about blaming the Cubs coaching staff for Pierre's struggles, but it's no less justifiable than blaming them for Patterson's poor performance, so I guess it isn't Juan's fault afterall.

 

Patterson was a young hitter with loads of talent that was never harnessed properly. Pierre is a player with a (bad) established way of hitting where as Corey was young enough to modify his approach.

 

Both broke into the big leagues the same year, and Pierre is 2 years older. I don't see much of a difference.

Pierre's swing is atrocious. There's no way to fix something so fundamentally screwed up. He'd have to forget everything he knows and start from scratch, and he's way too old for that.

 

Thats ridiculous. If his swing was so bad, he wouldnt have a career .305 batting average going into this season. It's a combo of aging and a bad eye that has pierre in such a bad hole.

Have you actually seen his swing? It's hideous. I have always said I have no clue how Pierre ever compiled a .300 BA with that swing.

[srbin84]

I never thought about blaming the Cubs coaching staff for Pierre's struggles, but it's no less justifiable than blaming them for Patterson's poor performance, so I guess it isn't Juan's fault afterall.

 

Patterson was a young hitter with loads of talent that was never harnessed properly. Pierre is a player with a (bad) established way of hitting where as Corey was young enough to modify his approach.

 

Both broke into the big leagues the same year, and Pierre is 2 years older. I don't see much of a difference.

Pierre's swing is atrocious. There's no way to fix something so fundamentally screwed up. He'd have to forget everything he knows and start from scratch, and he's way too old for that.

 

They have a 2 year age difference and the same amount of years in the minors/majors. Pierre had a career average over .300 coming into this year, and he has the terrible swing and is way to old to change, yet Patterson and his sub .300 OBP coming into this season and 2 years difference on his birth certificate makes him young and devolping?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Because he's two years older

 

They were picked in the same draft. Patterson was No. 3 overall and Pierre was picked in the 13th round. They had same amount of minor league experience.

 

spent just about all his time at the leadoff spot

 

No argument there, Pierre is a leadoff hitter.

 

and didn't tear his ACL

 

That explains half a season.

 

The correct answer is that Corey was terrible a lot of the time while Pierre was good.

 

The difference is about 1300 AB's. Because they didn't really start in the same year, you're including a full year of Pierre's at bats compared to Patterson's september callup, which is a difference of at least 600. Patterson missed about 450 at bats when he tore his ACL. And he was so bad last year that he got about 150 at bats fewer than a normal player should. That's about 1200, with the remainder due to Pierre's batting order spot and other unrelated factors.

 

Of course, all of this goes without saying that using their career at bats to determine what you are is fallacious, and that even in Pierre's good years Patterson has been as good if not better.

[frostwyrm]

Does defense count for anything? Pierre throws like a 10 year old girl, Corey throws like a grown man.

[srbin84]

Does defense count for anything? Pierre throws like a 10 year old girl, Corey throws like a grown man.

 

Yes, Patterson had an injury one year, and yes, Pierre got more AB's in large part because he was playing well and Patterson wasn't. My point is that they were drafted the same year and came up the same year, so they are subject to the same excuses.

[CuseCubFan69]

Juan should bat 8th, with Murton or Cedeno leading off.

 

Yeah... that's definitely the answer.

 

05/31 - 06/10      AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
Cedeno             36    4   10    0    1    0   12    2    1    6  0.278  0.297  0.333  0.631
Murton             32    3    9    1    0    0   10    0    1    5  0.281  0.303  0.313  0.616
Pierre             43    5   10    2    0    0   12    1    3    2  0.233  0.313  0.279  0.592

 

The last 10 days, there just ain't a whole lot to chose from.

 

Maybe Billy Barty is available to lead off?

[CuseCubFan69]

Why is it people want to blame Baker whenever a player just isn't that good? Pierre has been on a decline in OBP for the third straight year. Any good GM would've recognized that, but our GM and manager think that speed is the only thing needed out of the lead-off spot. From an offensive standpoint, speed means nothing if you can't get on base. Pierre is swinging at way too many non-strikes, and when pitchers throw him good pitches he just doesn't know what to do with it. I don't know why he's hitting so many fly balls. He's just not that good and we were saying this same thing last year, so it's not Baker.

 

I think that Baker/Hendry both wanted Pierre and are in agreement of him being a good lead off hitter.

[KaiserCesar]

I never thought about blaming the Cubs coaching staff for Pierre's struggles, but it's no less justifiable than blaming them for Patterson's poor performance, so I guess it isn't Juan's fault afterall.

 

Patterson was a young hitter with loads of talent that was never harnessed properly. Pierre is a player with a (bad) established way of hitting where as Corey was young enough to modify his approach.

 

Both broke into the big leagues the same year, and Pierre is 2 years older. I don't see much of a difference.

 

I was referring to the point in time when the Cubs coaching staffs were first able to work with each player. Patterson came to the Cubs out of the minors and Pierre going into this year was too old of a dog to learn any great new tricks and already had an established way of hitting. THAT is why Cubs coaching should be more blamed for Corey than for Juan.

[srbin84]

I never thought about blaming the Cubs coaching staff for Pierre's struggles, but it's no less justifiable than blaming them for Patterson's poor performance, so I guess it isn't Juan's fault afterall.

 

Patterson was a young hitter with loads of talent that was never harnessed properly. Pierre is a player with a (bad) established way of hitting where as Corey was young enough to modify his approach.

 

Both broke into the big leagues the same year, and Pierre is 2 years older. I don't see much of a difference.

 

I was referring to the point in time when the Cubs coaching staffs were first able to work with each player. Patterson came to the Cubs out of the minors and Pierre going into this year was too old of a dog to learn any great new tricks and already had an established way of hitting. THAT is why Cubs coaching should be more blamed for Corey than for Juan.

 

If that's the case, people shouldn't just say Clines screwed him up last year. They should say Pentland, Williams did a bad job coaching him, then when Clines first came in, he did a very good job coaching him, then in 2005, he started doing a bad job coaching him. If you are going to blame his performance on coaching, include everything.