Tejada

[NorthsideAvenger]

Well as mojo indicated, the young players' value could go up... or it could go down. Right now might be the only time you could get a Tejada for, say, Cedeno+Marshall+Hill. That deal gets laughed off the table come the offseason, if our kids struggle.

 

That's the risk of keeping young guys like Cedeno and Marshall, etc, etc. Yeah it would get laugh off the table if the kids struggle, but whose to say the Cubs offer those young kids, RIGHT NOW, and the Orioles would still laugh at the offer? Do I think the Orioles could/should trade Tejada? Yes. Only because the O's are clearly the fourth best team in the AL East, ad have absolutely NO SHOT at the playoffs before Tejada's contract is up in 2009.

 

And with respect to Tejada, this whole argument that the Cubs should not get him because they're not going to contend this year is silly. Tejada is signed through 2009. The only reason *not* to get him is if you think the team will not field a contender in 2006, 2007, 2008 *or* 2009.

 

Alot of people are banking on Tejada being this yr's version of Carlos Beltran, and while I could see it....I don't necessarily agree with it. I didn't say the Cubs shouldn't try to acquire Tejada, but unless they get Miggy for a darn good deal, I would just---pull a small market team for the yr---hold onto the kids, and see if they are worth keeping. If not...the Cubs can still revisit talks in the offseason for Tejada.

 

I'm not ready to write off 2006, and I sure as heck think Tejada could be a major contributor to a winning team for the three years after this one.

 

I'm not ready to write off 2006, either, but I also believe the Cubs should NOT try and get a "quick fix" in Tejada. There is too many holds in Cubs lineup, and not even Tejada can fixed them all. The ONLY way I would look into acquiring Tejada---remember he's still is not available--officially-- I remind you, so all of this is still a moot point---is if the Cubs go on a RIDICULUS hot streak within the next month. Otherwise...bite the bullet, and wait for 2007.

[davearm]

But the whole point is that Tejada is *not* a quick fix. He's a long-term investment, just like ARam and DLee.

 

The only difference is you have to trade to get him, rather than just sign him.

 

So if you believe he could help enough in the long term to be worth the investment, then regardless of the team's current record, the only reason to wait until the offseason to make the trade is if you're confident you could get him for less at that point, or our guys will be worth more then.

 

I'm not sure why you'd think the former, and the latter carries a fair degree of risk.

[Sammy Sofa]

The Orioles need starters, but the REALLY need bullpen help to get to their closer. Maybe Cedeno/Hill/Guzman/Williamson? Or maybe sub Ryu for Hill or Guzman? At this point, I'd really like to see Marshall stick around...

 

Like it's been said, this is the exact opposite of a "quick fix." Tejada is a guy you invest in for the next 3-4 years to hit big with Lee and Aramis.

[Neuby]

Tejada is a cornerstone of a franchise. Nefi Perez is a quick fix. Repeat after me .

[Sammy Sofa]

For those saying Tejada is a quick fix, then who ISN'T a quick fix player? Those seem like some impossibly high standards...

 

The more I think about this and read and listen to the Orioles media down here, the more this seems do-able. Start building for 2007 as early as possible and with a huge boost by picking up a guy like Tejada. I think you can get him for much less than trying to get Cabrera...based on the Pierre deal, and their team re-building trend, they'd leave our farm system with essentially nothing. Granted, Cabrera looks like he could be Pujols jr., but that's still a big risk essentially having next to no back ups for the next 2-3 years. Given the Orioles management and haven gotten Mazzone, it seems like you could snag Tejada for maybe Maddux/Hill/Cedeno/Williamson, or the combinations I've already listed. Options!

 

Plus, getting a guy like that will enable both Lee and Ramirez to see a ton of better pitches, and with Lee recovering from his injury and Aramis still pooping the bed, that cannot be underestimated. That kind of impact is needed ASAP, and if within a month, Wood, Prior and Miller are even shadows of their former pitching selves, the 'pen can survive such a trade, and then some.

[JWCUB]

For those saying Tejada is a quick fix, then who ISN'T a quick fix player? Those seem like some impossibly high standards...

 

The more I think about this and read and listen to the Orioles media down here, the more this seems do-able. Start building for 2007 as early as possible and with a huge boost by picking up a guy like Tejada. I think you can get him for much less than trying to get Cabrera...based on the Pierre deal, and their team re-building trend, they'd leave our farm system with essentially nothing. Granted, Cabrera looks like he could be Pujols jr., but that's still a big risk essentially having next to no back ups for the next 2-3 years. Given the Orioles management and haven gotten Mazzone, it seems like you could snag Tejada for maybe Maddux/Hill/Cedeno/Williamson, or the combinations I've already listed. Options!

 

Tejadas age.........Cabreras age. The Cubs need to use their Farm System for a great trade, not alot of moderate to ok trades. IF, and thats a big if, Cabrera is on the block, I don't see how you can not make a serious run at him. In a year or 2 Tejada will be in decline, while Cabrera has not even reached his prime yet. It's a no brainer for me.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

The two most recent wins not withstanding, I still don't think this is a contending team. For that reason, I'm not in favor of trading young players for older players at this time.

 

If we're going to make trades, we need to trade away veterans who are not part of our long term plans, particularly those not signed beyond 2006.

 

We have a season to evaluate players like Marshall, Cedeno, Murton and others to see whether they should be part of the long term goals or whether they should be moved in the offseason to retool the team to contend in 2007 and beyond.

 

While I agree that Tejada is signed beyond 2006 and could be helpful even if we do not contend this year, and I'll also concede that Tejada is likely to be more productive than Cedeno in 2007-2009, I'm not sure exactly what we have in Cedeno. As far as cost per marginal wins, it may be better for the Cubs to keep Cedeno and upgrade elsewhere. Cedeno will be cheap for at least the next 2-3 years, and if he can provide adequate production from his position at that price, it might be best to improve the team in other places and use the young players we have to trade for players that will do that.

 

If the Cubs were contenders this year and were likely only one bat away from a serious run, I'd be all for the upgrade from Cedeno to Tejada and be quite willing to spend the capital of Marshal and others to get him. Since, I think the Cubs are likely a middle of the pack team with or without Tejada, I'd prefer not to spend the capital on a player when the capital might be better spent in the offseason when we will have a better picture of the player Cedeno could be.

[Sammy Sofa]

That's why I'm liking the idea of using Maddux and Williamson with Hill/Guzman (one or the other) and Cedeno to try and get Tejada as opposed to tossing in Marshall (Throw in Sing or Theriot or someone with a little bat to push it along, too). Marshall's future is insanely bright right now...Cedeno seems like he's about 50/50 either way and could fall really hard...his selling power being any higher than it is at this point is a pretty big gamble. I don't think he'll be a terrible player, but I highly doubt he'll be the kind of spark that this team needs, like a Tejada...and this team needs a few sparks. People seem to be thinking this is a Pierretype trade, and it is so not!

 

I don't see why people seem to think this move is just a stopgap or quick fix or whatever along those lines. I see it as a first big step to rebuilding for the next 3-4 years. Tejada is older, but he's not Maddux old. He's a proven superstar. If we can get him for guys like the ones listed above, it seems like a no-brainer...go with the proven superstar almost anytime. A trade like that obviously hinges on Wood, Prior and Miller being able to pitch, which is why it would probably have to wait at least a month, but I'd rather gamble on Wood or Prior and Miller than Hill or Guzman. Plus, I'd like to think they'd wise up and use those big Tribune bucks to score another quality, reliable starter in the off season this time around, if necessary...learn those lessons, Hendry!

 

Marshall is the exception...if the Cubs can make some real moves and keep him, dear God, they need to. I think this move can be done without crippling the team further or the farm system, and actually making strides to improve this team for the long haul.

[Sammy Sofa]

For those saying Tejada is a quick fix, then who ISN'T a quick fix player? Those seem like some impossibly high standards...

 

The more I think about this and read and listen to the Orioles media down here, the more this seems do-able. Start building for 2007 as early as possible and with a huge boost by picking up a guy like Tejada. I think you can get him for much less than trying to get Cabrera...based on the Pierre deal, and their team re-building trend, they'd leave our farm system with essentially nothing. Granted, Cabrera looks like he could be Pujols jr., but that's still a big risk essentially having next to no back ups for the next 2-3 years. Given the Orioles management and haven gotten Mazzone, it seems like you could snag Tejada for maybe Maddux/Hill/Cedeno/Williamson, or the combinations I've already listed. Options!

 

Tejadas age.........Cabreras age. The Cubs need to use their Farm System for a great trade, not alot of moderate to ok trades. IF, and thats a big if, Cabrera is on the block, I don't see how you can not make a serious run at him. In a year or 2 Tejada will be in decline, while Cabrera has not even reached his prime yet. It's a no brainer for me.

 

I'd love to see Cabrera on this team. I dream about such things. But if he IS available at some point, there are plenty of other teams with MUCH better farm systems that'll dive for him...the Cubs already weak farm system would be razed and decimated in such a trade and be left crippled for far too long. Tejada could, in theory, be had for much less, and IMO has at least 2-3 great years left in him before he slips to just being "good."

 

Hey, maybe a miracle could happen and they'd get both. Maddux/Hill/Williamson/Wuertz or Williams/Cedeno for Tejada (or sub in Pierre for one of those guys and pull up Pie for the Cubs)...Patterson/Murton/Guzman/Marshall/Sing/Ryu/Theriot for Cabrera? IT'S A MAAAAAAAAADHOUSE!!!

 

Yeah, alright, I've gone nuts. This team has driven me to the brink.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

The two most recent wins not withstanding, I still don't think this is a contending team. For that reason, I'm not in favor of trading young players for older players at this time.

 

If we're going to make trades, we need to trade away veterans who are not part of our long term plans, particularly those not signed beyond 2006.

 

We have a season to evaluate players like Marshall, Cedeno, Murton and others to see whether they should be part of the long term goals or whether they should be moved in the offseason to retool the team to contend in 2007 and beyond.

 

While I agree that Tejada is signed beyond 2006 and could be helpful even if we do not contend this year, and I'll also concede that Tejada is likely to be more productive than Cedeno in 2007-2009, I'm not sure exactly what we have in Cedeno. As far as cost per marginal wins, it may be better for the Cubs to keep Cedeno and upgrade elsewhere. Cedeno will be cheap for at least the next 2-3 years, and if he can provide adequate production from his position at that price, it might be best to improve the team in other places and use the young players we have to trade for players that will do that.

 

If the Cubs were contenders this year and were likely only one bat away from a serious run, I'd be all for the upgrade from Cedeno to Tejada and be quite willing to spend the capital of Marshal and others to get him. Since, I think the Cubs are likely a middle of the pack team with or without Tejada, I'd prefer not to spend the capital on a player when the capital might be better spent in the offseason when we will have a better picture of the player Cedeno could be.

 

Hypothetical: What if teh Cobs could get Tejada and Cabrera? Are we contenders then?

[Banedon]

Hypothetical: What if teh Cobs could get Tejada and Cabrera? Are we contenders then?

 

If Hendry was able to pull that off, I might just back away from my assertion that he needs to be fired... :P

[goonys evil twin]

The two most recent wins not withstanding, I still don't think this is a contending team. For that reason, I'm not in favor of trading young players for older players at this time.

 

If we're going to make trades, we need to trade away veterans who are not part of our long term plans, particularly those not signed beyond 2006.

 

In '99, '00 and '01 I would have agreed. But this is the Cubs window, there's no more waiting around. I'd trade any prospects for great young talent right now.

[Balsa]

It really all depends on the next 20 games.

 

If the Cubs can pull something off, these trades might happen.

 

If not, one person isn't gonna get the Cubs to the playoffs.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

That's why I'm liking the idea of using Maddux and Williamson with Hill/Guzman (one or the other) and Cedeno to try and get Tejada as opposed to tossing in Marshall (Throw in Sing or Theriot or someone with a little bat to push it along, too). Marshall's future is insanely bright right now...Cedeno seems like he's about 50/50 either way and could fall really hard...his selling power being any higher than it is at this point is a pretty big gamble. I don't think he'll be a terrible player, but I highly doubt he'll be the kind of spark that this team needs, like a Tejada...and this team needs a few sparks. People seem to be thinking this is a Pierretype trade, and it is so not!

 

I don't see why people seem to think this move is just a stopgap or quick fix or whatever along those lines. I see it as a first big step to rebuilding for the next 3-4 years. Tejada is older, but he's not Maddux old. He's a proven superstar. If we can get him for guys like the ones listed above, it seems like a no-brainer...go with the proven superstar almost anytime. A trade like that obviously hinges on Wood, Prior and Miller being able to pitch, which is why it would probably have to wait at least a month, but I'd rather gamble on Wood or Prior and Miller than Hill or Guzman. Plus, I'd like to think they'd wise up and use those big Tribune bucks to score another quality, reliable starter in the off season this time around, if necessary...learn those lessons, Hendry!

 

Marshall is the exception...if the Cubs can make some real moves and keep him, dear God, they need to. I think this move can be done without crippling the team further or the farm system, and actually making strides to improve this team for the long haul.

 

The Orioles would have no interest in Maddux. Like the Cubs, they aren't contending this year and so why would they want a pitcher who can and will bolt at the end of the season? Also, Williamson is juts like Maddux. He's an impending FA as well. That makes the deal Cedeno + Hill/Guzman for Tejada which the Orioles would shoot down in a second.

[Sammy Sofa]

Maybe there's something there with them having Mazzone. Maybe Maddux wants to play 2 more years, period. If that's true, playing with Mazzone again might be very appealing for the O's and getting him sooner rather than later might end up being a lot cheaper. And there's been talk of Williamson being a big trading chip this season...now all of a sudden that's not true? He was always going to be a FA at the end of this year, that's nothing new. The O's are desperate for a bullpen to get them to their closer. Williamson and Wuertz, Hill, Cedeno (maybe also Restovich) and Maddux?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Maybe there's something there with them having Mazzone. Maybe Maddux wants to play 2 more years, period. If that's true, playing with Mazzone again might be very appealing for the O's and getting him sooner rather than later might end up being a lot cheaper.

 

He's making 9 million right now. So to get him this year in a year that does them no good isn't really any cheaper than them adding that 4.5 + million to their offer in the fall. Maddux has value, just not to a team like the Orioles.

 

And there's been talk of Williamson being a big trading chip this season...now all of a sudden that's not true? He was always going to be a FA at the end of this year, that's nothing new. The O's are desperate for a bullpen to get them to their closer. Williamson and Wuertz, Hill, Cedeno (maybe also Restovich) and Maddux?

 

Williamson has value in a trade, but also, not to a team like the Orioles. If the Orioles trade Tejada, it's because they've given up on this season. It also means they've likely given up on next season. Maddux and Williamson would not be players they would want. Contending teams would be very interested in those two. Baltimore would not. Restovich, they could've had when we exposed him to waivers. They don't want him.

 

So, the deal is Wuertz, Hill + Cedeno...and that is no dice.

 

The Orioles would have NO interest in Maddux and Williamson. I can pretty much guarantee that.

Edited May 18, 2006 by vance_the_cubs_fan

[Sammy Sofa]

But...but...but...but...

 

Awwwww, horse hockey!

[JWCUB]

I agree with Goony, the window to win is now. Hendry has to realize this. With the youngest opening day starting line up in what was it 25, 30 years? I say use the Farm to get Cabrera (if availabe) no matter what the cost. You have a YOUNG core of starters anyway. I guess I don't see this team as (as bad) as the performance or the record. Frustrating, yes. I can see Wood and Prior coming on strong in Aug. and Sept. (barring any COUGH set backs or stupid injuries) as they have had the first 2 months off. They should be strong at the end of the year. Maybe I'm just being too optomistic. I don't know. I guess the wildcard for me will be how good DLee comes back. From everything I hear, he may not be 100% until 07. I never would have said this about the 04 or 05 teams.

[davearm]

Williamson has value in a trade, but also, not to a team like the Orioles. If the Orioles trade Tejada, it's because they've given up on this season. It also means they've likely given up on next season. Maddux and Williamson would not be players they would want. Contending teams would be very interested in those two. Baltimore would not. Restovich, they could've had when we exposed him to waivers. They don't want him.

 

So, the deal is Wuertz, Hill + Cedeno...and that is no dice.

 

The Orioles would have NO interest in Maddux and Williamson. I can pretty much guarantee that.

The situation with the O's is actually somewhat less favorable than you're letting on Vance.

 

Not only would the O's have no interest in our main veteran trade chips (Maddux, Williamson, etc.), but their farm system's depth is pretty much parallel to ours... several nice pitching prospects, but a scant few high-end position guys, and almost nothing that's approaching ML-ready.

 

Consequently, if they were to move Tejada, a package consisting of at least 1 or 2 promising bats that could step in virtually right away would likely be the requirement. That's not something the Cubs could provide nearly as readily as several other teams... if they were so inclined, of course.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Williamson has value in a trade, but also, not to a team like the Orioles. If the Orioles trade Tejada, it's because they've given up on this season. It also means they've likely given up on next season. Maddux and Williamson would not be players they would want. Contending teams would be very interested in those two. Baltimore would not. Restovich, they could've had when we exposed him to waivers. They don't want him.

 

So, the deal is Wuertz, Hill + Cedeno...and that is no dice.

 

The Orioles would have NO interest in Maddux and Williamson. I can pretty much guarantee that.

The situation with the O's is actually somewhat less favorable than you're letting on Vance.

 

Not only would the O's have no interest in our main veteran trade chips (Maddux, Williamson, etc.), but their farm system's depth is pretty much parallel to ours... several nice pitching prospects, but a scant few high-end position guys, and almost nothing that's approaching ML-ready.

 

Consequently, if they were to move Tejada, a package consisting of at least 1 or 2 promising bats that could step in virtually right away would likely be the requirement. That's not something the Cubs could provide nearly as readily as several other teams... if they were so inclined, of course.

 

I agree. I'm pretty sure Pie would have to be a part of any deal that nets Tejada.

 

That's partially why I'm not in favor of the move. I'm not sure Tejada is a big enough upgrade over Cedeno to make a difference this year. If that's the case, it's a very high price to pay for a player that isn't going to get us into the playoffs.

[Sammy Sofa]

While I agree with what you guys are pointing out, nobody is saying Tejada is going to get us into the playoffs singlehandedly. Everyone needs to stop looking for that mythical player. Outside of Pujols, they do not exist for THIS Cubs team. Even Cabrera probably wouldn't be enough to ensure a playoff shot. Getting Tejada, Cabrera, whoever, needs to be looked at only as a step in a larger plan. A big step, yes, but just A step.

 

And that's just a general rant, not launched at anyone in particular.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I'm asking for Cabrera, Tejada, and Craig Wilson. Is that too much?

[JWCUB]

I'm asking for Cabrera, Tejada, and Craig Wilson. Is that too much?

 

Yes it is. How about just Cabrera and Tejada?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I'm asking for Cabrera, Tejada, and Craig Wilson. Is that too much?

 

Yes it is. How about just Cabrera and Tejada?

 

Fine, I guess.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

While I agree with what you guys are pointing out, nobody is saying Tejada is going to get us into the playoffs singlehandedly. Everyone needs to stop looking for that mythical player. Outside of Pujols, they do not exist for THIS Cubs team. Even Cabrera probably wouldn't be enough to ensure a playoff shot. Getting Tejada, Cabrera, whoever, needs to be looked at only as a step in a larger plan. A big step, yes, but just A step.

 

And that's just a general rant, not launched at anyone in particular.

 

I understand that completely. And it's why I want to know more of what we have in Cedeno before I give up Marshall and likely Pie to get Tejada. If Cedeno can play SS at a high level, then I'd rather focus my energies in improving the offense in other places.