Hendry, Wood, Prior (& Dusty) Theory

[Scott G. F.]

Replacing a manager with a guy who yells and tries to pull bases from their moorings isn't going to help Pierre get on base. It's not going to help our pitchers throw strikes. It's not going to do anything except provide the illusion of intensity.

 

All that matters is the talent on the roster.

 

And what will happen if Lou replaces Dusty and there's no effect on the team's play? People will say that Lou's intensity "turned the team off", and the players "tuned him out".

 

Baseball is alla bout focus. right now the Cubs have no focus at all. If they focused on a new manager that hold them accountable I'm betting they would respond. The Cubs have the talent. What they need now is the focus. Maybe in the form of a loony manager.

 

Goonie. I have heard rumors he'd like the Cubs job (Davie that is)

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Bowa was 86-76 in 2001 and Francona 65-97 in 2000.

 

Were there any other personnel differences in those seasons? Say Jimmy Rollins or Pat Burrell. Stuff like that?

 

Burrell was there in 2000, and Rollins didn't even have that good a year in 2001.

 

My bad, I was thinking 01 was Burrell's first year as well. Regardless, Larry Bowa was not the only change made between 00 and 01. Travis Lee has a solid season as I recall, and Ron Gant and Mickey Morandini (639 OPS) were gone from the everyday lineup too. Their pitching staff was quite a bit better as well.

[USSoccer]

Replacing a manager with a guy who yells and tries to pull bases from their moorings isn't going to help Pierre get on base. It's not going to help our pitchers throw strikes. It's not going to do anything except provide the illusion of intensity.

 

All that matters is the talent on the roster.

 

And what will happen if Lou replaces Dusty and there's no effect on the team's play? People will say that Lou's intensity "turned the team off", and the players "tuned him out".

 

Baseball is alla bout focus. right now the Cubs have no focus at all. If they focused on a new manager that hold them accountable I'm betting they would respond. The Cubs have the talent. What they need now is the focus. Maybe in the form of a loony manager.

 

Goonie. I have heard rumors he'd like the Cubs job (Davie that is)

 

Baseball is all about pitching, hitting, and catching a round ball. It has no more or less to do with things like "focus", "chemistry", "intensity" than any other job.

 

The reason the Cubs have struggled recently has nothing to do with not being held accountable. It has everything to do with the fact that the talent on the roster isn't that great, and they are without 3 of their best 5 players.

[SouthSideRyan]

Replacing a manager with a guy who yells and tries to pull bases from their moorings isn't going to help Pierre get on base. It's not going to help our pitchers throw strikes. It's not going to do anything except provide the illusion of intensity.

 

All that matters is the talent on the roster.

 

And what will happen if Lou replaces Dusty and there's no effect on the team's play? People will say that Lou's intensity "turned the team off", and the players "tuned him out".

 

Baseball is alla bout focus. right now the Cubs have no focus at all. If they focused on a new manager that hold them accountable I'm betting they would respond. The Cubs have the talent. What they need now is the focus. Maybe in the form of a loony manager.

 

Goonie. I have heard rumors he'd like the Cubs job (Davie that is)

 

Or they could "press" and still suck. Lloyd McClendon had my favorite manager argument of all time where he took the base and walked off the field with it. Shockingly, the Pirates still sucked.

[srbin84]

Bowa was 86-76 in 2001 and Francona 65-97 in 2000.

 

Were there any other personnel differences in those seasons? Say Jimmy Rollins or Pat Burrell. Stuff like that?

 

Burrell was there in 2000, and Rollins didn't even have that good a year in 2001.

 

My bad, I was thinking 01 was Burrell's first year as well. Regardless, Larry Bowa was not the only change made between 00 and 01. Travis Lee has a solid season as I recall, and Ron Gant and Mickey Morandini (639 OPS) were gone from the everyday lineup too. Their pitching staff was quite a bit better as well.

 

The bullpen was better but not really the rotation. Schilling wasn't there in 2001.

[Scott G. F.]

Replacing a manager with a guy who yells and tries to pull bases from their moorings isn't going to help Pierre get on base. It's not going to help our pitchers throw strikes. It's not going to do anything except provide the illusion of intensity.

 

All that matters is the talent on the roster.

 

And what will happen if Lou replaces Dusty and there's no effect on the team's play? People will say that Lou's intensity "turned the team off", and the players "tuned him out".

 

Baseball is alla bout focus. right now the Cubs have no focus at all. If they focused on a new manager that hold them accountable I'm betting they would respond. The Cubs have the talent. What they need now is the focus. Maybe in the form of a loony manager.

 

Goonie. I have heard rumors he'd like the Cubs job (Davie that is)

 

Baseball is all about pitching, hitting, and catching a round ball. It has no more or less to do with things like "focus", "chemistry", "intensity" than any other job.

 

The reason the Cubs have struggled recently has nothing to do with not being held accountable. It has everything to do with the fact that the talent on the roster isn't that great, and they are without 3 of their best 5 players.

 

Yes and seeing that loss of three big players tends to weigh on you.

I've read during the losing streak the Cubs looked tired, made alot of stupid mistakes.

 

They were not focused. Don't lump team chemistry with this.

[USSoccer]

Replacing a manager with a guy who yells and tries to pull bases from their moorings isn't going to help Pierre get on base. It's not going to help our pitchers throw strikes. It's not going to do anything except provide the illusion of intensity.

 

All that matters is the talent on the roster.

 

And what will happen if Lou replaces Dusty and there's no effect on the team's play? People will say that Lou's intensity "turned the team off", and the players "tuned him out".

 

Baseball is alla bout focus. right now the Cubs have no focus at all. If they focused on a new manager that hold them accountable I'm betting they would respond. The Cubs have the talent. What they need now is the focus. Maybe in the form of a loony manager.

 

Goonie. I have heard rumors he'd like the Cubs job (Davie that is)

 

Or they could "press" and still suck. Lloyd McClendon had my favorite manager argument of all time where he took the base and walked off the field with it. Shockingly, the Pirates still sucked.

 

Wait, so the manager acting like an idiot didn't make the talent on the Pirates better?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Bowa was 86-76 in 2001 and Francona 65-97 in 2000.

 

Were there any other personnel differences in those seasons? Say Jimmy Rollins or Pat Burrell. Stuff like that?

 

Burrell was there in 2000, and Rollins didn't even have that good a year in 2001.

 

My bad, I was thinking 01 was Burrell's first year as well. Regardless, Larry Bowa was not the only change made between 00 and 01. Travis Lee has a solid season as I recall, and Ron Gant and Mickey Morandini (639 OPS) were gone from the everyday lineup too. Their pitching staff was quite a bit better as well.

 

The bullpen was better but not really the rotation. Schilling wasn't there in 2001.

 

He wasn't there for half of 2000 either. Regardless, Bowa was not the only change.

[goonys evil twin]

Bowa was 86-76 in 2001 and Francona 65-97 in 2000.

 

Were there any other personnel differences in those seasons? Say Jimmy Rollins or Pat Burrell. Stuff like that?

 

Burrell was there in 2000, and Rollins didn't even have that good a year in 2001.

 

Burrell was also 23 in 2000, and still improving. He was also the 1B in 2000, putting a Ron Gant Kevin Jordan platoon in LF. In 2001 Burrell moved to LF (solidifying that position) and Travis Lee played a full season at 1B. As unimpressive as Lee is, he was 26 (ie. peak year) and much better than the LF platoon that was there in 2000. Plus, Philly's pitching staff was in shambles in 2000, with an oft-injured Schilling. In 2000 they had a worthless Jeff Brantley as closer and in 2001 they got an absolutely dominant Jose Mesa (183 ERA+) in that role. Philly's starting SS had a 75 OPS+ in 2000 and Jimmy had a 92 in 2001. Scott Rolen also played a full season in 2001 after missing a large amount of time in 2000. In 2000 Morandini got the bulk of the 2B time and had a 62 OPS+, while Anderson had a 97 in 2001. There were major differences in personel that have nothing to do with a manager who yells at people.

[USSoccer]

Replacing a manager with a guy who yells and tries to pull bases from their moorings isn't going to help Pierre get on base. It's not going to help our pitchers throw strikes. It's not going to do anything except provide the illusion of intensity.

 

All that matters is the talent on the roster.

 

And what will happen if Lou replaces Dusty and there's no effect on the team's play? People will say that Lou's intensity "turned the team off", and the players "tuned him out".

 

Baseball is alla bout focus. right now the Cubs have no focus at all. If they focused on a new manager that hold them accountable I'm betting they would respond. The Cubs have the talent. What they need now is the focus. Maybe in the form of a loony manager.

 

Goonie. I have heard rumors he'd like the Cubs job (Davie that is)

 

Baseball is all about pitching, hitting, and catching a round ball. It has no more or less to do with things like "focus", "chemistry", "intensity" than any other job.

 

The reason the Cubs have struggled recently has nothing to do with not being held accountable. It has everything to do with the fact that the talent on the roster isn't that great, and they are without 3 of their best 5 players.

 

Yes and seeing that loss of three big players tends to weigh on you.

I've read during the losing streak the Cubs looked tired, made alot of stupid mistakes.

 

They were not focused. Don't lump team chemistry with this.

 

Or, the fact that they look tired could have to do with the fact that they've played about 13 games in a row, a large part of which was on a west coast road trip. Or the fact that they were losing 8 straight could have fed into the perception of looking "tired" and "indifferent". The baserunning and defensive errors have to do with bad baseball players making bad baseball plays. Pierre is a terrible defensive CF, and always has been. Ditto for Jones, except he's not a very good offensive player either.

 

Losing streaks tend to have the effect of people projecting whatever they want to read into onto the losing team. It's not grounded in any reality. It's a sports cliche.

[RynoRules]

Larry Bowa brought alot of fire but not much people skill. He was why over the top. Lou Piniella isn't a raving loon.

 

I beg to differ. Lou is as much of a loon as Bowa.

 

 

Yes but he would be our loon! Baker walks out of the dugout to argue and you don't think anything of it. Lou P comes out and you get interested really fast. The players see this and see the fire. With Dusty they see someone just awaken from a nap!

 

Aramis: Well gee, I wasn't gonna try and hit a homer. But now that I see Lou is angry and the crowd is pointing and laughing at him, I shall now hit a monstrous homerun to show my appreciation for Lou! *CRACK*

 

I hate that ridiculous and condescending reaction to this argument. It oversimplifies a complex issue and says a lot about theperson posting it, IMO.

 

No one is arguing that the Cubs don't need better players and a manager -who in addition to holding his players accountable and demanding concentration - understands how to fill in a lineup card and manage pitching staff. In spite of this fact, many members continue to generalize and twist statements. In deference to people who just don't get it, let me spell it out plain and simple:

 

1) The Cubs need better players;

2) The Cubs need a manager who understands in-game strategy, how best to lineup his position players, and how to manage a staff; and

3) The Cubs need a manager who, unlike Baker, demands accountability and concentration, and doesn't make every excuse in the world for his players (i.e., the weather is cold; we travel too much; we play day games; black guys react better to the heat or whatever).

[Scott G. F.]

Replacing a manager with a guy who yells and tries to pull bases from their moorings isn't going to help Pierre get on base. It's not going to help our pitchers throw strikes. It's not going to do anything except provide the illusion of intensity.

 

All that matters is the talent on the roster.

 

And what will happen if Lou replaces Dusty and there's no effect on the team's play? People will say that Lou's intensity "turned the team off", and the players "tuned him out".

 

Baseball is alla bout focus. right now the Cubs have no focus at all. If they focused on a new manager that hold them accountable I'm betting they would respond. The Cubs have the talent. What they need now is the focus. Maybe in the form of a loony manager.

 

Goonie. I have heard rumors he'd like the Cubs job (Davie that is)

 

Or they could "press" and still suck. Lloyd McClendon had my favorite manager argument of all time where he took the base and walked off the field with it. Shockingly, the Pirates still sucked.

 

Wait, so the manager acting like an idiot didn't make the talent on the Pirates better?

 

Point of the thread is this. Dusty doesn't work any more!! Get someone in there that'll spark this team and have them focus on winning! Not dealing with day games or the media, or the evil Stoney.!!

 

Dj and Lou P. are good suggestions.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Piniella = worst case scenario

[USSoccer]

Larry Bowa brought alot of fire but not much people skill. He was why over the top. Lou Piniella isn't a raving loon.

 

I beg to differ. Lou is as much of a loon as Bowa.

 

 

Yes but he would be our loon! Baker walks out of the dugout to argue and you don't think anything of it. Lou P comes out and you get interested really fast. The players see this and see the fire. With Dusty they see someone just awaken from a nap!

 

Aramis: Well gee, I wasn't gonna try and hit a homer. But now that I see Lou is angry and the crowd is pointing and laughing at him, I shall now hit a monstrous homerun to show my appreciation for Lou! *CRACK*

 

I hate that ridiculous and condescending reaction to this argument. It oversimplifies a complex issue and says a lot about theperson posting it, IMO.

 

No one is arguing that the Cubs don't need better players and a manager -who in addition to holding his players accountable and demanding concentration - understands how to fill in a lineup card and manage pitching staff. In spite of this fact, many members continue to generalize and twist statements. In deference to people who just don't get it, let me spell it out plain and simple:

 

1) The Cubs need better players;

2) The Cubs need a manager who understands in-game strategy, how best to lineup his position players, and how to manage a staff; and

3) The Cubs need a manager who, unlike Baker, demands accountability and concentration, and doesn't make every excuse in the world for his players (i.e., the weather is cold; we travel too much; we play day games; black guys react better to the heat or whatever).

 

Good points, all.

[goonys evil twin]

1) The Cubs need better players;

2) The Cubs need a manager who understands in-game strategy, how best to lineup his position players, and how to manage a staff; and

3) The Cubs need a manager who, unlike Baker, demands accountability and concentration, and doesn't make every excuse in the world for his players (i.e., the weather is cold; we travel too much; we play day games; black guys react better to the heat or whatever).

 

That's all well and good, but running around ranting and raving like a manaic doesn't mean you are holding guys accountable and making them concentrate. There's an enormous difference between not making excuses for players and making a complete ass out of yourself.

 

As far as I can tell, Sweet Lou has had some of the most talented players in baseball history and has had mixed results. Then he quit on that team and wanted warm weather, and less demand for success. All he does is yell. I don't see a yeller making the difference.

[USSoccer]

1) The Cubs need better players;

2) The Cubs need a manager who understands in-game strategy, how best to lineup his position players, and how to manage a staff; and

3) The Cubs need a manager who, unlike Baker, demands accountability and concentration, and doesn't make every excuse in the world for his players (i.e., the weather is cold; we travel too much; we play day games; black guys react better to the heat or whatever).

 

That's all well and good, but running around ranting and raving like a manaic doesn't mean you are holding guys accountable and making them concentrate. There's an enormous difference between not making excuses for players and making a complete ass out of yourself.

 

As far as I can tell, Sweet Lou has had some of the most talented players in baseball history and has had mixed results. Then he quit on that team and wanted warm weather, and less demand for success. All he does is yell. I don't see a yeller making the difference.

 

Also good points.

 

It comes down to the talent on the field, and the willingness of the field manager to put his players in the best possible position to succeed.

[srbin84]

Bowa was 86-76 in 2001 and Francona 65-97 in 2000.

 

Were there any other personnel differences in those seasons? Say Jimmy Rollins or Pat Burrell. Stuff like that?

 

Burrell was there in 2000, and Rollins didn't even have that good a year in 2001.

 

Burrell was also 23 in 2000, and still improving. He was also the 1B in 2000, putting a Ron Gant Kevin Jordan platoon in LF. In 2001 Burrell moved to LF (solidifying that position) and Travis Lee played a full season at 1B. As unimpressive as Lee is, he was 26 (ie. peak year) and much better than the LF platoon that was there in 2000. Plus, Philly's pitching staff was in shambles in 2000, with an oft-injured Schilling. In 2000 they had a worthless Jeff Brantley as closer and in 2001 they got an absolutely dominant Jose Mesa (183 ERA+) in that role. Philly's starting SS had a 75 OPS+ in 2000 and Jimmy had a 92 in 2001. Scott Rolen also played a full season in 2001 after missing a large amount of time in 2000. In 2000 Morandini got the bulk of the 2B time and had a 62 OPS+, while Anderson had a 97 in 2001. There were major differences in personel that have nothing to do with a manager who yells at people.

 

Those improvements aren't enough on their own to improve a team 21 games in the standings.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Those improvements aren't enough on their own to improve a team 21 games in the standings.

 

But Larry Bowa is?

[goonys evil twin]

My biggest point in all this "next manager" talk is, I don't need a celebrity manager. I don't need a name.

 

So many kneejerk sports writers constantly ridiculed the cubs for not getting name managers, yet they went out and got some of the bigger name guys in the game in Baylor and Baker, and the results were not good. Up until the day he signed many were ridiculing the Cubs saying they'd never get a guy like Baker who was supposedly so out of their league.

 

I don't want a manager who feels like he has to come in and have his signature on every move. I don't need a guy like Baker who not only thinks he's the star and should never be questioned, but also worthlessly utilizes moves like the pitch out (even with guys who have control problems), double switches, worthless sac bunts etc, just so he can show how many tricks he knows. I also don't need a guy whose sole purpose is to light a fire. This isn't a great team that's playing lackadaisically. This is a talented, yet baseball skill deprived team that plays an inefficient brand of baserunners. Part of that is Hendry, part of that is Baker asking for that type of player.

 

Anyway, at this point I think I'm willing to take anybody who is not Dusty. But I would not for a second put all my faith in a guy like Lou to finally answer all the questions. He is not the difference.

[RynoRules]

My biggest point in all this "next manager" talk is, I don't need a celebrity manager. I don't need a name.

 

So many kneejerk sports writers constantly ridiculed the cubs for not getting name managers, yet they went out and got some of the bigger name guys in the game in Baylor and Baker, and the results were not good. Up until the day he signed many were ridiculing the Cubs saying they'd never get a guy like Baker who was supposedly so out of their league.

 

I don't want a manager who feels like he has to come in and have his signature on every move. I don't need a guy like Baker who not only thinks he's the star and should never be questioned, but also worthlessly utilizes moves like the pitch out (even with guys who have control problems), double switches, worthless sac bunts etc, just so he can show how many tricks he knows. I also don't need a guy whose sole purpose is to light a fire. This isn't a great team that's playing lackadaisically. This is a talented, yet baseball skill deprived team that plays an inefficient brand of baserunners. Part of that is Hendry, part of that is Baker asking for that type of player.

 

Anyway, at this point I think I'm willing to take anybody who is not Dusty. But I would not for a second put all my faith in a guy like Lou to finally answer all the questions. He is not the difference.

 

Well said. I couldn't care less if we get a "name" manager. Just get me someone who can do what I stated above.

[rocket]

Larry Bowa brought alot of fire but not much people skill. He was why over the top. Lou Piniella isn't a raving loon.

 

I beg to differ. Lou is as much of a loon as Bowa.

 

 

Yes but he would be our loon! Baker walks out of the dugout to argue and you don't think anything of it. Lou P comes out and you get interested really fast. The players see this and see the fire. With Dusty they see someone just awaken from a nap!

 

Aramis: Well gee, I wasn't gonna try and hit a homer. But now that I see Lou is angry and the crowd is pointing and laughing at him, I shall now hit a monstrous homerun to show my appreciation for Lou! *CRACK*

 

I hate that ridiculous and condescending reaction to this argument. It oversimplifies a complex issue and says a lot about theperson posting it, IMO.

 

No one is arguing that the Cubs don't need better players and a manager -who in addition to holding his players accountable and demanding concentration - understands how to fill in a lineup card and manage pitching staff. In spite of this fact, many members continue to generalize and twist statements. In deference to people who just don't get it, let me spell it out plain and simple:

 

1) The Cubs need better players;

2) The Cubs need a manager who understands in-game strategy, how best to lineup his position players, and how to manage a staff; and

3) The Cubs need a manager who, unlike Baker, demands accountability and concentration, and doesn't make every excuse in the world for his players (i.e., the weather is cold; we travel too much; we play day games; black guys react better to the heat or whatever).

 

What the hell? The post I was replying to was made tongue in cheek (I presumed), so I made one too. It wasn't a comment that we need to keep Dusty. Settle down.

[Scott G. F.]

Larry Bowa brought alot of fire but not much people skill. He was why over the top. Lou Piniella isn't a raving loon.

 

I beg to differ. Lou is as much of a loon as Bowa.

 

 

Yes but he would be our loon! Baker walks out of the dugout to argue and you don't think anything of it. Lou P comes out and you get interested really fast. The players see this and see the fire. With Dusty they see someone just awaken from a nap!

 

Aramis: Well gee, I wasn't gonna try and hit a homer. But now that I see Lou is angry and the crowd is pointing and laughing at him, I shall now hit a monstrous homerun to show my appreciation for Lou! *CRACK*

 

I hate that ridiculous and condescending reaction to this argument. It oversimplifies a complex issue and says a lot about theperson posting it, IMO.

 

No one is arguing that the Cubs don't need better players and a manager -who in addition to holding his players accountable and demanding concentration - understands how to fill in a lineup card and manage pitching staff. In spite of this fact, many members continue to generalize and twist statements. In deference to people who just don't get it, let me spell it out plain and simple:

 

1) The Cubs need better players;

2) The Cubs need a manager who understands in-game strategy, how best to lineup his position players, and how to manage a staff; and

3) The Cubs need a manager who, unlike Baker, demands accountability and concentration, and doesn't make every excuse in the world for his players (i.e., the weather is cold; we travel too much; we play day games; black guys react better to the heat or whatever).

 

What the hell? The post I was replying to was made tongue in cheek (I presumed), so I made one too. It wasn't a comment that we need to keep Dusty. Settle down.

 

 

I thought it was funny. I think this whole thread is funny.

The Cubs need a disaplinarian whom ever.

[goonys evil twin]

funny how?

[SouthSideRyan]

funny how?

 

Am I just a clown here to amuse Scott G.F.?

[Scott G. F.]

funny how?

 

Am I just a clown here to amuse Scott G.F.?

 

Yeah funny. Like...ya know funny.