what is the deal with prior???

[goonys evil twin]

 

Why is it absurd? Clearly younger players are still developing physically.

 

......

 

I'm not going to say "ha, he was 8 months younger, there it's proof beyond debate".

 

staying specific to my point, it is absurd because Prior was pretty much fully developed physically by the time he was on the Cubs, and because some of the players you scoffed at were only 8-14 months older than Prior, and as pointed out above, some were just as abused.

 

What makes you think he was fully developed. He was developed, compared to the average human male, but he was most likely not full developed. Guys still change at that age.

 

Listen, the point is he was abused, and he was abused at a younger age than others. There's a difference. Maybe it's small, but it's a difference. If they were a year younger than Prior when they started throwing 120 pitches a game on a regular basis and pitching during games when they were injured earlier, then the naysayers would have a point.

[Rusch33]

It's been three years and it's not Baker's fault anymore. This is Mark's problem with staying healthy.

 

Also, you can't blame Baker for trying to ride Wood and Prior to the Cubs first title in 90-something years. Any coach would have.

[David]

It's been three years and it's not Baker's fault anymore. This is Mark's problem with staying healthy.

 

Also, you can't blame Baker for trying to ride Wood and Prior to the Cubs first title in 90-something years. Any coach would have.

 

Not the way Dusty did.

 

At least, any intelligent manager wouldn't.

[ZiggyTaxi]

No, you cannot blame Dusty for that. Who cares if their arms fell off, it would have been worth winning the World Series.

[Rusch33]

Not knowing if you're being sarcastic or not, but I totally agree.

 

It's been 3 years - it's no longer Dusty's fault.

[goonys evil twin]

It's been three years and it's not Baker's fault anymore. This is Mark's problem with staying healthy.

 

It's been 3 years so it's not his fault? What kind of logic is that? He was abused at the ages of 21, 22 and 23 from 2002-2004, that sort of thing takes a toll over time. And that toll can have long lasting effects. There's no way you can exonerate Dusty just by saying it was 3 years ago.

[Soul]

Not knowing if you're being sarcastic or not, but I totally agree.

 

It's been 3 years - it's no longer Dusty's fault.

 

Me too. It's gone beyond Dusty's admittedly poor starting pitching management.

[TruffleShuffle]

Clemens had a serious shoulder injury in 85.

 

Yes, and they eased him back in the following season with 287 innings (including the playoffs) pitched - at age 23/24, nonetheless. Then he threw 282 the following year. In retrospect, he's fortunate his career turned out so well. A workload like that would have destroyed many young pitchers' futures.

[MPrior]

Clemens had a serious shoulder injury in 85.

 

Yes, and they eased him back in the following season with 287 innings (including the playoffs) pitched - at age 23/24, nonetheless. Then he threw 282 the following year. In retrospect, he's fortunate his career turned out so well. A workload like that would have destroyed many young pitchers' futures.

 

That definitely would destroy careers. That's crazy. It's fair to say, though, that Clemens is clearly the exception rather than the rule. Even before he was drafted, he was known as a workout junkie, and that's continued all the way through his career. He turned himself into a workhorse, because he felt that was the only way to get drafted. Also, he's the greatest pitcher of a generation (maybe even two or three). That helps.

 

As for the age difference thing, I'm pretty sure it makes a pretty big difference what age the abuse occurs at. The people in the know (not me) call it the "injury nexus," which is basically a period in a young pitcher's life when he is particularly susceptible to injury, due to any number of factors (but I assume the biggest are development issues and the huge jump in workload). And the injury nexus is around the ages of 21-22 or 23.

 

Also, regarding the idiocy of leaving pitchers in the game too long, check out this article. It presents a pretty convincing argument for why pitch counts matter.

[srbin84]

I like the Mazzone philosophy. Throw more between starts to build arm strength and durability.