Surprise, surprise: "Everything Man" over Cedeno's

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I can, I suppose, accept Perez starting at SS for an ineffective Cedeno.

 

Someone please tell me that Perez won't bat 2nd.

 

He won't bat second.

 

It looks like Hairston/Walker is batting 2nd if the recent ST lineups are an indicator of things to come.

[YearofDaCubs]

Maybe the cubs should have done a better job of upgrading the backup SS spot if they felt they can have a short leash with Cedeno.

[badger1679666666]

Maybe the cubs should have done a better job of upgrading the backup SS spot if they felt they can have a short leash with Cedeno.

 

can't disagree with you here. I almost threw up in my mouth when I saw that Neifi signing.

[goonys evil twin]

Hendry made his bed, Dusty needs to lie in it. When they committed to go with Cedeno at SS, they need to stick to that commitment.

 

Rookies struggle. But, sitting on the bench in favor of a guy who is not major league caliber will not do a single thing to help him through his struggles.

 

Sticking with him through the tough times will help him mature and toughen him up.

 

To me, Neifi is a late inning defensive replacement, a last option PH, and a starter if for some reason Cedeno can't play.

 

A short stint in Spring Training should not change that.

 

That didn't work with Corey Patterson. Giving someone playing time does not insure progress.

 

Giving Neifi playing time will ensure losing.

[sonofsamiam]

An 0-for could mean his job. Dusty doesn't have to say anything. It is kind of an unwritten rule, you have to perform if you are young or you will be gone.

 

See my previous quote about Sandberg. He started something like 1-30 in '83. I suppose he would have been discarded by the Cubs if the same thing happened today.

 

All of this is coming from 51 spring training at-bats. I guarantee that Neifi had far worse 51-AB stints last year than this, and those are actual, counted games.

[goonys evil twin]

Lugo is an older Cedeno.

 

In what way is Lugo an older Cedeno? Lugo is a moderately priced productive SS. He's very similar to Furcal. Cedeno might one day be as productive as Lugo, but we sure as heck don't know for sure.

 

I think you just answered your own question -- a moderately priced productive SS. I know you're not sold on Ronny, but I most definitely am after watching him in Des Moines a few times. I think he's going to be just fine.

 

No, I didn't answer my question. You can't just say you saw him in Iowa a couple times and therefore he's just a younger Lugo. Ronny is very much an unproven commodity. He doesn't have a strong track record of productivity in the minors to fall back on. You can think he's going to be just fine all you want, but that doesn't mean you can wave off the fact that Lugo would provide something Ronny cannot, which is stable productivity (as opposed to Neifi, who is stable crappiness).

[CubinNY]

The thing is spring training numbers are meaningless. M&P the competition in the WL is closer to AAA then AA.

 

Cedeno will be fine if he learnse to take a pitch. If I were Dusty that is what I'd say. Be agressive in the strike zone and leave everything else alone. Instead Dusty preaches being agressive and not getting behind in the count.

 

I hope that Dusty and the Cubs give him time to adjust, even if they get off to a poor start. A poor hitting number 8 hitter is not the difference between a world seies contender and an also ran. Instead I envision Cedeno being scapegoated by Dusty and fans alike if the Cubs get off to a poor start. Then Neifi can come in and save the Cubs to another medicore record.

[CUBZ99]

Hendry made his bed, Dusty needs to lie in it. When they committed to go with Cedeno at SS, they need to stick to that commitment.

 

Rookies struggle. But, sitting on the bench in favor of a guy who is not major league caliber will not do a single thing to help him through his struggles.

 

Sticking with him through the tough times will help him mature and toughen him up.

 

To me, Neifi is a late inning defensive replacement, a last option PH, and a starter if for some reason Cedeno can't play.

 

A short stint in Spring Training should not change that.

 

That didn't work with Corey Patterson. Giving someone playing time does not insure progress.

 

Giving Neifi playing time will ensure losing.

 

Then giving Cedeno, if he is performing below Neifi's level, also ensures losing? I would rather have a guy hit .280 with a ..298 OBP than a guy hit .216 with a .230 OBP. I think you are assuming that any player will a better option than Neifi. Would like to see you support that argument in some way.

Edited March 31, 2006 by CUBZ99

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Lugo is an older Cedeno.

 

In what way is Lugo an older Cedeno? Lugo is a moderately priced productive SS. He's very similar to Furcal. Cedeno might one day be as productive as Lugo, but we sure as heck don't know for sure.

 

I think you just answered your own question -- a moderately priced productive SS. I know you're not sold on Ronny, but I most definitely am after watching him in Des Moines a few times. I think he's going to be just fine.

 

No, I didn't answer my question. You can't just say you saw him in Iowa a couple times and therefore he's just a younger Lugo. Ronny is very much an unproven commodity. He doesn't have a strong track record of productivity in the minors to fall back on. You can think he's going to be just fine all you want, but that doesn't mean you can wave off the fact that Lugo would provide something Ronny cannot, which is stable productivity (as opposed to Neifi, who is stable crappiness).

 

I most certainly can wave off that "fact". In my opinion (not yours) Lugo is not a significant upgrade over Ronny.

[nick23]

Hendry made his bed, Dusty needs to lie in it. When they committed to go with Cedeno at SS, they need to stick to that commitment.

 

Rookies struggle. But, sitting on the bench in favor of a guy who is not major league caliber will not do a single thing to help him through his struggles.

 

Sticking with him through the tough times will help him mature and toughen him up.

 

To me, Neifi is a late inning defensive replacement, a last option PH, and a starter if for some reason Cedeno can't play.

 

A short stint in Spring Training should not change that.

 

That didn't work with Corey Patterson. Giving someone playing time does not insure progress.

 

Yeah, but it worked for Bobby Cox last year.

[BigbadB]

Hendry made his bed, Dusty needs to lie in it. When they committed to go with Cedeno at SS, they need to stick to that commitment.

 

Rookies struggle. But, sitting on the bench in favor of a guy who is not major league caliber will not do a single thing to help him through his struggles.

 

Sticking with him through the tough times will help him mature and toughen him up.

 

To me, Neifi is a late inning defensive replacement, a last option PH, and a starter if for some reason Cedeno can't play.

 

A short stint in Spring Training should not change that.

 

That didn't work with Corey Patterson. Giving someone playing time does not insure progress.

 

You are correct. It won't guarantee a thing. But sitting him on the bench won't do a thing for him either. Stick him out there and see what what happens.

 

But, just because sticking Corey Patterson out there everyday in spite of his struggles didn't do a thing for him doesn't mean it can't work out for Cedeno.

 

Someone brought up Sandberg's struggles in his first major league stint. Should Lee Elia have sent Sandberg packing and replaced him with Keith Moreland or Pat Tabler when he went 1 for his first 30?

 

Because the Cubs don't have "better" options to stick at SS, I think you have to see what you really have in Cedeno by letting him play everyday. Maybe if the Cubs organization didn't send Cedeno to AAA in favor of Enrique Wilson last year, we might have a better idea of what kind of player Cedeno might be in the major leagues. Stupid decisions like this is why they are in this position right now of not knowing what they really have at SS.

 

There were SS's available this offseason. Julio Lugo and Edgar Renteria come to mind. They passed because they felt Cedeno could adequately do the job. They made that bed, now they have to lie in it. It's going to be a long season if they give up on Cedeno prematurely to go with the "known" production of one Neifi Perez.

[goonys evil twin]

Lugo is an older Cedeno.

 

In what way is Lugo an older Cedeno? Lugo is a moderately priced productive SS. He's very similar to Furcal. Cedeno might one day be as productive as Lugo, but we sure as heck don't know for sure.

 

I think you just answered your own question -- a moderately priced productive SS. I know you're not sold on Ronny, but I most definitely am after watching him in Des Moines a few times. I think he's going to be just fine.

 

No, I didn't answer my question. You can't just say you saw him in Iowa a couple times and therefore he's just a younger Lugo. Ronny is very much an unproven commodity. He doesn't have a strong track record of productivity in the minors to fall back on. You can think he's going to be just fine all you want, but that doesn't mean you can wave off the fact that Lugo would provide something Ronny cannot, which is stable productivity (as opposed to Neifi, who is stable crappiness).

 

I most certainly can wave off that "fact". In my opinion (not yours) Lugo is not a significant upgrade over Ronny.

 

He might not be a significant upgrade over successful Ronny, but he's most definitely a signficicant upgrade over struggling Ronny. The question here is what happens if Ronny fails. If you take the option of replacing him with Neifi, then you should have gotten a guy like Lugo. If you aren't willing to risk failure with a young guy who can be good, then you better guarantee production with a guy like Lugo, and not guarantee failure with a guy like Neifi.

[CubinNY]

Hendry made his bed, Dusty needs to lie in it. When they committed to go with Cedeno at SS, they need to stick to that commitment.

 

Rookies struggle. But, sitting on the bench in favor of a guy who is not major league caliber will not do a single thing to help him through his struggles.

 

Sticking with him through the tough times will help him mature and toughen him up.

 

To me, Neifi is a late inning defensive replacement, a last option PH, and a starter if for some reason Cedeno can't play.

 

A short stint in Spring Training should not change that.

 

That didn't work with Corey Patterson. Giving someone playing time does not insure progress.

 

Giving Neifi playing time will ensure losing.

 

Then giving Cedeno, if he is performing below Neifi's level, also ensures losing? I would rather have a guy hit .280 with a ..298 OBP than a guy hit .216 with a .230 OBP. I think you are assuming that any player will a better option than Neifi. Would like to see you support that argument in some way.

 

It is completely irrelevent. If Cedeno doesn't produce the Cubs will get little production out of SS this year, unless they make a trade.

[goonys evil twin]

Then giving Cedeno, if he is performing below Neifi's level, also ensures losing? I would rather have a guy hit .280 with a ..298 OBP than a guy hit .216 with a .230 OBP. I think you are assuming that any player will a better option than Neifi. Would like to see you support that argument in some way.

 

A struggling Cedeno at least offers the chance for success in the future, which could be the very near future. Neifi only guarantees failure, because he's done it so often and for so long, we know he's not a capable starting major league baseball player. Even if Cedeno is performing below what you would expect for Neifi, you have to give him plenty of time to possibly get back over the Neifi line, which shouldn't be that hard.

 

You don't lock yourself into no produciton (Neifi) if you have the opportunity to get much greater production.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

The thing is spring training numbers are meaningless. M&P the competition in the WL is closer to AAA then AA.

 

Cedeno will be fine if he learnse to take a pitch. If I were Dusty that is what I'd say. Be agressive in the strike zone and leave everything else alone. Instead Dusty preaches being agressive and not getting behind in the count.

 

I hope that Dusty and the Cubs give him time to adjust, even if they get off to a poor start. A poor hitting number 8 hitter is not the difference between a world seies contender and an also ran. Instead I envision Cedeno being scapegoated by Dusty and fans alike if the Cubs get off to a poor start. Then Neifi can come in and save the Cubs to another medicore record.

 

If ST numbers are meaningless, Marshall is sent to the minors and not given the 4 spot in the rotation. Cedeno doesn't deserve a starting job based on one good year (mostly in the minors or the WL equivalent) anyway considering that he was an offensive black hole beforehand.

 

Cedeno is going to magically learn how to take a pitch? With our coaches? That's a huge handicap right there. Either you have good plate discipline like Murton before you come up to our big league club, or you don't develop it. Ronny's going to have a rough time this year.

 

Ronny's K/BB ratio was horrible until his stint in AAA (245 AB). It looks like he's reverted to form in the VWL and in ST.

 

Dusty doesn't throw people under the bus, even if he is an excuse maker for his team's performance.

[BigbadB]

I most certainly can wave off that "fact". In my opinion (not yours) Lugo is not a significant upgrade over Ronny.

 

What don't you like about Lugo?

 

48 XBH's, 57 RBI's out of the top of the order, 89 runs scored, 39 SB's, .295 AVG, .362 OBP.

 

If we get that from Cedeno, I'll be quite pleased.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Then giving Cedeno, if he is performing below Neifi's level, also ensures losing? I would rather have a guy hit .280 with a ..298 OBP than a guy hit .216 with a .230 OBP. I think you are assuming that any player will a better option than Neifi. Would like to see you support that argument in some way.

 

A struggling Cedeno at least offers the chance for success in the future, which could be the very near future. Neifi only guarantees failure, because he's done it so often and for so long, we know he's not a capable starting major league baseball player. Even if Cedeno is performing below what you would expect for Neifi, you have to give him plenty of time to possibly get back over the Neifi line, which shouldn't be that hard.

 

You don't lock yourself into no produciton (Neifi) if you have the opportunity to get much greater production.

 

The problem isn't that Cedeno sucks. Neifi sucks for his age and experience. Cedeno just needs time in the minors. It's pathetic that we're looking to have Neifi as our everyday SS.

 

We all new this was coming. Either Dusty would play one of his favorite vets, or Cedeno would tank all on his own (highly likely IMO, given his minor league history) and put Neifi in there by default. Great idea Hendry. Awesome job.

[CubDad4Ever]

Nefi ,does not mean failure. Or Boston is done with Agone, houston was with Evertt, La angels with orlando c. etc. No one said we would not prefer a rod or tejada, But winning has and will always be done with a defense first ss. The cubs have to get production at other positions. And get starting pitching from the highly paid and often injured stars prior and wood. They will be fine if that happens. if not they will struggle. Its time to get off the nefi = whipping boy for the cubs bandwagon. Coach L.

[Gunned]

 

This is Dubios all over again.

 

And where is Dubois now? It's not like Dusty benched him, we traded him and then he went on to tear things up. The Indians (who everyone here loves) sure haven't found a use for him.

 

And I don't blame Dusty if he benches Cedeno. He's playing terribly right now, and there's no guarantee he'll bust out of it. I've always been concerned about him, since he really just has about one year of success at the plate after being awful for four seasons.

 

This is Hendry's fault, not Dusty's.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

What don't you like about Lugo?

 

48 XBH's, 57 RBI's out of the top of the order, 89 runs scored, 39 SB's, .295 AVG, .362 OBP.

 

If we get that from Cedeno, I'll be quite pleased.

 

The fact that at age 30, and after 6 seasons, he hasn't come close to that in any other season.

[goonys evil twin]

If ST numbers are meaningless, Marshall is sent to the minors and not given the 4 spot in the rotation. Cedeno doesn't deserve a starting job based on one good year (mostly in the minors or the WL equivalent) anyway considering that he was an offensive black hole beforehand.

 

Cedeno is going to magically learn how to take a pitch? With our coaches? That's a huge handicap right there. Either you have good plate discipline like Murton before you come up to our big league club, or you don't develop it. Ronny's going to have a rough time this year.

 

Ronny's K/BB ratio was horrible until his stint in AAA (245 AB). It looks like he's reverted to form in the VWL and in ST.

 

Dusty doesn't throw people under the bus, even if he is an excuse maker for his team's performance.

 

If Cedeno can't earn a job based on one good year, why can Neifi earn the job by default based off of several terrible years?

[BigbadB]

We all new this was coming. Either Dusty would play one of his favorite vets, or Cedeno would tank all on his own (highly likely IMO, given his minor league history) and put Neifi in there by default. Great idea Hendry. Awesome job.

 

I can't disagree with this. I'm still hoping Cedeno does well, but Hendry could have traded minor leaguers for Lugo instead of Pierre, and left Patterson in CF with Lofton or some other veteran as a placeholder for Pie.

 

Patterson was traded at his lowest trade value. Might as well keep him if you are going to just dump a guy.

[goonys evil twin]

Nefi ,does not mean failure. Or Boston is done with Agone, houston was with Evertt, La angels with orlando c. etc.

 

The difference is those teams can afford to take on such a bad bat. The Cubs can't afford a black hole like Neifi in their already weak lineup. Houston won with unbelievably great pitching, the Cubs are probably not getting unbelievably great pitching this year.

 

Neifi guarantees Cubs failure. Put him at 2B for the Yankees, and they'll still have a great offense. Put him in the Cincy, or Philly, or STL lineups, and they will be fine. But the Cubs don't have a good lineup. Those teams do.

Edited March 31, 2006 by goony's evil twin

[nick23]

Nefi ,does not mean failure. Or Boston is done with Agone, houston was with Evertt, La angels with orlando c. etc. No one said we would not prefer a rod or tejada, But winning has and will always be done with a defense first ss. The cubs have to get production at other positions. And get starting pitching from the highly paid and often injured stars prior and wood. They will be fine if that happens. if not they will struggle. Its time to get off the nefi = whipping boy for the cubs bandwagon. Coach L.

 

Very true. Niether one of these two are going to make or break our season. If the pitching can't get healthy it doesn't matter who's playing short.

[CubDad4Ever]

Goony , actually off warp, he was and average player last year not terrible. He is a d first ss like many other winning teams have. I would love Ronny to light it up and i think he will get a good chance. But he has to produce in the field first , then at the plate some. We will see, i am not bummed at this point. Coach L